Did Ford eek out an additional 15 Ib-ft of torque from the Bronco 2.7 EcoBoost engine?

[JPye]

OK, I noticed the issues with the 2.7 engine failures in the 2.7 blown engine forum, and have been scratching my head over why this issue so far seems to be a 2.7 Bronco issue only. Is the Bronco version different than the seven other ford models that have this engine? The 2.7L Ecoboost engine is available in these Ford vehicles: Ford F-150, Ford Bronco, Ford Edge Sport, Ford Edge ST, Ford Fusion Sport, Lincoln MKX, Lincoln Continental, Lincoln Nautilus. Nary a comment online that I can find about engine failures among them that relate to cylinder 5's valve issue. I would expect at least some online content for failures associated with these builds.

So I am asking, did Ford redesign the successful 2.7L Ecoboost engine to eek out an additional 15 ft lbs of torque for the Bronco? It is possible I a haven't done a deep enough dive into the 2.7L to determine the latest spec, but below linked article references a different torque range for the 2.7 than Ford has disclosed for the Bronco. 400 vs 415 Ib-ft.

https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=146

Torque, lb ft
350-400 lb-ft (475-542 Nm)/ 3,000-3,250

This is what Ford has disclosed for the 2021 Bronco with 2.7L Ecoboost online:

Best Six-Cylinder
Power In Class*
(Available)
The available 2.7L EcoBoost® with 4×4 produces best 6-cylinder power
in its class* with 330 horsepower and 415 Ib-ft. of torque.**
*Class is Medium Traditional Utility.
**Horsepower and torque ratings based on premium fuel per SAE 11349® standard.
Your results may vary.
Preproduction computer-generated image with optional equipment shown. Vehicle
is available beginning summer 2021.

Sponsored

 

[MileHighCitizen]

It has a different air/fuel tune, they changed the power curve to sacrifice a little top end HP for usable torque. Considering the Bronco's design as a low-speed offroader in their line-up; it makes total sense and will seem more "peppy" to the end-user.

 

[JohnnyBronco]

The article you tagged does not say what fuel. We know for a fact that Ford stands behind 3 power outputs in the Bronco based on octane, although "premium" east of the Mississippi means 93 and West means 91 and sometimes only 89.

There is no reason to discount the possibility of increased torque happiness when hp is increased, although they rarely coincide nor should.

That being said, there is no evidence other than what Ford may have from black box data dumps that any or all failures happened at max torque or max hp. So far, each driver, if you ask, will say driving in 2A 10th (presumably) foot nowhere near pedal, cruising under speed limit on dry pave and kerning out of nowhere. In fact not a one will admit to their engine ever exceeding 4000 ram let alone searching for redline

 

[JPye]

It has a different air/fuel tune, they changed the power curve to sacrifice a little top end HP for usable torque. Considering the Bronco's design as a low-speed offroader in their line-up; it makes total sense and will seem more "peppy" to the end-user.

I agree with you about off-road torque benefits. This is why I like diesels. My question as it relates to valve failures is to highlight the changes in this engine vs other engines. If Ford tweeked the tune to improve the torque curve, did this change put strain on the valves that previous 2.7's did experience? I have been wondering about the non-hardware, (non-Engine) side of these failures. Could there be something about how the engine software manages fuel injection and ignition timing? I don't know what drives the changes in a variable valve/cam system, but that is where I would be looking if I were Ford, unless I knew the valve assembly is not meeting design specs.

The article you tagged does not say what fuel. We know for a fact that Ford stands behind 3 power outputs in the Bronco based on octane, although "premium" east of the Mississippi means 93 and West means 91 and sometimes only 89.

There is no reason to discount the possibility of increased torque happiness when hp is increased, although they rarely coincide nor should.

That being said, there is no evidence other than what Ford may have from black box data dumps that any or all failures happened at max torque or max hp. So far, each driver, if you ask, will say driving in 2A 10th (presumably) foot nowhere near pedal, cruising under speed limit on dry pave and kerning out of nowhere. In fact not a one will admit to their engine ever exceeding 4000 ram let alone searching for redline

My point is as @MileHighCitizen responded, that the Bronco was tweaked for more torque, which is prized in off-roading. The question is; did the change in the Bronco 2.7's power curve to eek out more torque result in more strain on the valve train? Not that the increase torque is responsible for the failures, but that the changes to how the engine systems are managed.

 

[MileHighCitizen]

I agree with you about off-road torque benefits. This is why I like diesels. My question as it relates to valve failures is to highlight the changes in this engine vs other engines. If Ford tweeted the tune to improve the torque curve, did this change put strain on the valves that previous 2.7's did experience? I have been wondering about the non-hardware, (Engine) side of these failures. Could there be something about how the engine software manages fuel injection and ignition timing? I don't know what drives the changes in a variable valve/cam system, but that is where I would be looking if I were Ford, unless I knew the valve assembly is not meeting design specs.

Speaking in general, with turbo engines, high HP seems to put more stress on the valvetrain (valves, springs, head gasket), whereas high torque puts more strain on the drivetrain (clutch, tranny, differentials). Again, if there is/was a specific defect in the manufacturing of Fords valves for the 2.7, that isn't going to be ironed out with a tune.

Ford has billions of miles on the new 2.7 that was redesigned in 2018(?) by now though, and with such a low tow-rating for the Bronco, as compared to the F150 with the same 2.7, I wouldn't be overly concerned with engine stress, rather focus on suspension links and drivetrain improvements when looking for the "weak-link" in Bronco performance because of the high weight.

 

[JPye]

Speaking in general, with turbo engines, high HP seems to put more stress on the valvetrain (valves, springs, head gasket), whereas high torque puts more strain on the drivetrain (clutch, tranny, differentials). Again, if there is/was a specific defect in the manufacturing of Fords valves for the 2.7, that isn't going to be ironed out with a tune.

Ford has billions of miles on the new 2.7 that was redesigned in 2018(?) by now though, and with such a low tow-rating for the Bronco, as compared to the F150 with the same 2.7, I wouldn't be overly concerned with engine stress, rather focus on suspension links and drivetrain improvements when looking for the "weak-link" in Bronco performance because of the high weight.

Eeking out more low end torque could be through valve timing and high boost pressure. I am also thinking about how they waste gate functions. I am pretty sure it is electronic, and for this reason it could be tweaked to maintain boost pressure under highway conditions. Anyway, it is possible the issue we are seeing in the Bronco that isn't present elsewhere could be an engine management issue. One that could lead to Low Speed Pre-Ignition and blown valves, especially if there are break-in metal particles in the cylinders that could be a source of pre-ignition. Ford Engineers researched the heck out of LSPI, but did they cross all the t's and dot all the I'd on the Bronco modifications to achieve the the boost in Horsepower and torque? I'm asking.

It is possible that the 2.7L EcoBoost engine in our 2021 Broncos will go down as the most reliable engine of the decade.

 

[JPye]

The article you tagged does not say what fuel. We know for a fact that Ford stands behind 3 power outputs in the Bronco based on octane, although "premium" east of the Mississippi means 93 and West means 91 and sometimes only 89.

There is no reason to discount the possibility of increased torque happiness when hp is increased, although they rarely coincide nor should.

That being said, there is no evidence other than what Ford may have from black box data dumps that any or all failures happened at max torque or max hp. So far, each driver, if you ask, will say driving in 2A 10th (presumably) foot nowhere near pedal, cruising under speed limit on dry pave and kerning out of nowhere. In fact not a one will admit to their engine ever exceeding 4000 ram let alone searching for redline

I have been surfing the web and looking for quoted specs for our 2.7L EcoBoost engines. I noticed that the Ford website quotes the 2022 MY Bronco with 2.7L at 400 lb-ft of torque. I don't know if I have a copy of the 2021 spec, but it is possible on their page they didn't quote the higher values, but I don't know why they wouldn't. Which makes me a tad suspicious that Ford has dialed back the power and torque on the AB engines.

Below is the quote from the Ford Authority website from May 2021.

"Meanwhile, the 2.7L EcoBoost V6 is rated to produce 330 horsepower and 415 pound-feet of torque on premium gas (315 horsepower and 410 pound-feet on regular), besting the projected ratings of 310 horsepower and 400 pound-feet of torque."

https://fordauthority.com/2021/05/2021-ford-bronco-horsepower-torque-ratings-revealed/

 

[gryphon1231]

OK, I noticed the issues with the 2.7 engine failures in the 2.7 blown engine forum, and have been scratching my head over why this issue so far seems to be a 2.7 Bronco issue only. Is the Bronco version different than the seven other ford models that have this engine? The 2.7L Ecoboost engine is available in these Ford vehicles: Ford F-150, Ford Bronco, Ford Edge Sport, Ford Edge ST, Ford Fusion Sport, Lincoln MKX, Lincoln Continental, Lincoln Nautilus. Nary a comment online that I can find about engine failures among them that relate to cylinder 5's valve issue. I would expect at least some online content for failures associated with these builds.

So I am asking, did Ford redesign the successful 2.7L Ecoboost engine to eek out an additional 15 ft lbs of torque for the Bronco? It is possible I a haven't done a deep enough dive into the 2.7L to determine the latest spec, but below linked article references a different torque range for the 2.7 than Ford has disclosed for the Bronco. 400 vs 415 Ib-ft.

https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=146

Torque, lb ft
350-400 lb-ft (475-542 Nm)/ 3,000-3,250

This is what Ford has disclosed for the 2021 Bronco with 2.7L Ecoboost online:

Best Six-Cylinder
Power In Class*
(Available)
The available 2.7L EcoBoost® with 4×4 produces best 6-cylinder power
in its class* with 330 horsepower and 415 Ib-ft. of torque.**
*Class is Medium Traditional Utility.
**Horsepower and torque ratings based on premium fuel per SAE 11349® standard.
Your results may vary.
Preproduction computer-generated image with optional equipment shown. Vehicle
is available beginning summer 2021.

You may be overthinking this. The issues could be something as simple as a batch of parts in a particular group of engine builds. Best to wait for the engineers and metallurgists to do their thing

 

[H - 2 CHARLIE]

Eeking out more low end torque could be through valve timing and high boost pressure. I am also thinking about how they waste gate functions. I am pretty sure it is electronic, and for this reason it could be tweaked to maintain boost pressure under highway conditions. Anyway, it is possible the issue we are seeing in the Bronco that isn't present elsewhere could be an engine management issue. One that could lead to Low Speed Pre-Ignition and blown valves, especially if there are break-in metal particles in the cylinders that could be a source of pre-ignition. Ford Engineers researched the heck out of LSPI, but did they cross all the t's and dot all the I'd on the Bronco modifications to achieve the the boost in Horsepower and torque? I'm asking.

It is possible that the 2.7L EcoBoost engine in our 2021 Broncos will go down as the most reliable engine of the decade.

I would say hold those words until they iron out these motors blown up .

 

[JPye]

You may be overthinking this. The issues could be something as simple as a batch of parts in a particular group of engine builds. Best to wait for the engineers and metallurgists to do their thing

yeah, I agree 100%, but for lack of confirmation from Ford, I am considering what else could have caused the failures.

 

[BigHoof]

I have been surfing the web and looking for quoted specs for our 2.7L EcoBoost engines. I noticed that the Ford website quotes the 2022 MY Bronco with 2.7L at 400 lb-ft of torque. I don't know if I have a copy of the 2021 spec, but it is possible on their page they didn't quote the higher values, but I don't know why they wouldn't. Which makes me a tad suspicious that Ford has dialed back the power and torque on the AB engines.

The info direct from Ford back when it was time to place the first orders in early '21 shows 310 hp / 400 tq. It was listed in several of the brochures available which are on here somewhere. Just happened to have saved them from when I was ordering.

 

[JPye]

The info direct from Ford back when it was time to place the first orders in early '21 shows 310 hp / 400 tq. It was listed in several of the brochures available which are on here somewhere. Just happened to have saved them from when I was ordering.

I found these lines in their 2021 Bronco Technical Specs sales brochure. So they were advertising 415 lb-ft on Premium. They have exactly the same in their 2022 spec sheet but included RPM values.

2021 Bronco Tech Spec
https://media.ford.com/content/dam/...oduct/2021/bronco/pdf/21_Bronco_TechSpecs.pdf

SAE horsepower	300* (275 regular fuel)	330* (315 regular fuel)
SAE torque	325* (315 regular fuel)	415* (410 regular fuel)

2022 Bronco Tech Spec
https://media.ford.com/content/dam/...roduct/2022/bronco/2022-Bronco-Tech-Specs.pdf

SAE horsepower (regular fuel)	275 @ 5,700 rpm	315 @ 5,500 rpm
SAE torque (regular fuel)	315 @ 3,400 rpm	410 @ 3,250 rpm
SAE horsepower (premium fuel)*	300 @ 5,700 rpm	330 @ 5,250 rpm
SAE torque (premium fuel)*	325 @ 3,400 rpm	415 @ 3,100 rpm

 

[gryphon1231]

yeah, I agree 100%, but for lack of confirmation from Ford, I am considering what else could have caused the failures.

there would be most likely be more than the 30 or so failures that have been reported so far if it were based on factory tweek's to engine to get an a little extra torque.

 

[Mattwings]

Shops are tuning the 2.7 regularly to 400+ HP and 450+ lb. Ft. of torque on 93 fuel and more on e85. Seems very unlikely the Bronco “tune” has anything to do with engine failures. Forums and social media focus and amplify these issues. People just don’t post “drove my 2.7 Bronco today and it was fine”.

 

[JPye]

Shops are tuning the 2.7 regularly to 400+ HP and 450+ lb. Ft. of torque on 93 fuel and more on e85. Seems very unlikely the Bronco “tune” has anything to do with engine failures. Forums and social media focus and amplify these issues. People just don’t post “drove my 2.7 Bronco today and it was fine”.

Good point. I’ll give it a rest.

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