Drunk Sensor ?

[DriveAllNight]

This seems to have been happening more on B6G recently and makes me wonder if AI companies are somehow acquiring abandoned user IDs on forums to train their AIs on interacting with actual humans.

We're back to our Robot Overlords
All hail Skynet !!!!

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[Tex]

AI implies it would need to be connected to the internet to gain access to a computer that could handle such things - the infotainment system is no where in that ballpark.
So now we are talking about a nonstop data connection to pass the data to be processed.
What could go wrong with attaching that kind of dependency on an offroad biased vehicle


Not to mention bringing us one step closer to accepting our submissive role to our Robot Overlords.

Crescent wrench to the rescue, just hop into the dash and find your telematics antenna(s), then use the wrench to remove the antenna, problem solved
Your Bronco cannot talk to the AI overlord if you disable its vocal cords

If it has to be connected, people will create boxes with pre-recorded videos of people driving normally with normal steering inputs, and then you can take those boxes and hook them up to the camera input and steering inputs, so it thinks there is a normal alert person driving in a normal way. Then the people who do not like this will create some other thing that people will bypass, often before it even gets implemented. Maybe a separate module entirely that spoofs signals between the AI overlord and the Bronco, with the overlord thinking everything is fine so it fires back a good to go signal to the Bronco. AI is the smartest, dumbest thing we've ever created. It will always be a back and forth battle between authoritarian and libertarian principles, so long as people who value those principles exist. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

 

[RHeinz]

I use UBER. It’s a lot better!

If DUI prevention devices are breath oriented, how long do you think it will take someone (the Chinese) to come up with aerosol cans of “Fresh Breath”, complete with a soft lip applicator?

 

[rblume73]

I use UBER. It’s a lot better!

If DUI prevention devices are breath oriented, how long do you think it will take someone (the Chinese) to come up with aerosol cans of “Fresh Breath”, complete with a soft lip applicator?

 

[Tex]

I use UBER. It’s a lot better!

If DUI prevention devices are breath oriented, how long do you think it will take someone (the Chinese) to come up with aerosol cans of “Fresh Breath”, complete with a soft lip applicator?

It won't be that kind of device, they want it to passively monitor the immediate atmosphere in front of you. Which is fraught with real world issues, such as HVAC blowing, windows being down, top being off...I honestly don't see that part of it getting off the ground. Plus, if every single person in the US has a vehicle with it, they're going to get drunk one day and experiment just to see if they can fool their car into thinking they're not drunk, and eventually someone is going to find an easy workaround that anyone can do. Monitoring driver input, on the other hand, that's already partially implemented in the Bronco and even more so in vehicles that drive themselves. I don't think that's going to be so easily solved without some digital tomfoolery.

 

[Bmadda]

It won't be that kind of device, they want it to passively monitor the immediate atmosphere in front of you. Which is fraught with real world issues, such as HVAC blowing, windows being down, top being off...I honestly don't see that part of it getting off the ground. Plus, if every single person in the US has a vehicle with it, they're going to get drunk one day and experiment just to see if they can fool their car into thinking they're not drunk, and eventually someone is going to find an easy workaround that anyone can do. Monitoring driver input, on the other hand, that's already partially implemented in the Bronco and even more so in vehicles that drive themselves. I don't think that's going to be so easily solved without some digital tomfoolery.

Dude...think of the hijynx that opens up! Dump a cheap bottle of fleishmans vodka on your buddies floormat, now he's stuck in the parking lot for how long?

 

[Tex]

Dude...think of the hijynx that opens up! Dump a cheap bottle of fleishmans vodka on your buddies floormat, now he's stuck in the parking lot for how long?

If it was anything like the beer that blew up under my truck seat from the summer heat years ago, he'll probably be there a decade or so.

Alternatively they'll make some sort of alcohol filter that can be placed over the air inlet so it only senses fresh air, or a simple tube that is routed outside the vehicle, I mean the creative possibilities are endless.

 

[Bmadda]

If it was anything like the beer that blew up under my truck seat from the summer heat years ago, he'll probably be there a decade or so.

Alternatively they'll make some sort of alcohol filter that can be placed over the air inlet so it only senses fresh air, or a simple tube that is routed outside the vehicle, I mean the creative possibilities are endless.

The blow tubes that are court mandated can't be fooled like that, they detect the moisture content in your breath. I have never had to have one (knock on wood), but I have customers that have...royal PITA. They can be defeated, but customers have warned me not to tamper with them because they are told they store failed attempts to defeat them in memory. IDK how true that is, but I do know they have to be removed and hooked to a state issued computer every month. A shop near me does this, and they approached me about doing it too, but I couldn't bring myself to profit on someone's misfortune in that way. Not defending those who have been busted, just don't want to make my money that way!

 

[HoosierSquatch]

This thread is a sociopolitical bomb ready to go off, with that said, and no offense to anyone, here is my 2 cents.

The cost of this has got to be expensive. If anything it should be 100% subsidized by either the sale of alcohol or better yet, fines from drunk drivers.

Mouthwash can prevent you from starting your car.

Any malfunction with this sensor can turn your car into a brick. And there are always going to be a few bad ones in the batch.

This is a problem that could be solved with better education and an effective punishment and treatment for offenders. I realize we are not there yet, but I'm all about fixing the problem and not the symptoms.

There is no way that aftermarket products won't find a way to defeat this tech within months of it being implemented.

People who know better than to drive drunk are inconvenienced and people who drive drunk will get around it.

This shouldn't have to be something imposed on everyone.

With all that said, I am not in anyway promoting drinking and driving, but I don't believe this is the answer.
I'm also betting no one is making them mandatory on buses, 18 wheelers, trains, planes and ships, let alone motorcycles or jet skies. But that's another discussion.

And with all that said, I'm betting Ford and every other manufacturer will wait until they absolutely have to implement this because buyers will buy something else if they can to avoid dealing with it.

edit - adding because I'm still thinking about this:

There are many days I'm running errands and I'm getting in and out, starting and stopping engine. Will I have to breath into a tube every time? Easily could be over a half a dozen times a day with my schedule. Really annoying in the morning going to work, stopping for gas, coffee, maybe a bagel every time breath in tube .... nope still not drunk, car.
Pick daughter up from school, stop by parents house - still not drunk.

This tube will get full of nasty smelling bacteria fast, not to mention spreading sickness, when family member takes it for a ride, so now we need disposable tubes to buy on a regular basis - that doesn't sound ecofriendly - so much for global warming. Thinking about the maker of the Kcups who realized the amazing amount of landfill he inadvertently created. Seriously, think about the millions of cars on the road every day and all those tubes they have to breath into.

Plus what are these tubes going to cost? So the price of driving just went up along with landfill and probably idiots littering the roadways with tubes like smokers tossing cigarettes.

not to add to the political ticking time bomb ready to go off, but here were go…make them cardboard straws and that will fix everything.

 

[Tex]

The blow tubes that are court mandated can't be fooled like that, they detect the moisture content in your breath. I have never had to have one (knock on wood), but I have customers that have...royal PITA. They can be defeated, but customers have warned me not to tamper with them because they are told they store failed attempts to defeat them in memory. IDK how true that is, but I do know they have to be removed and hooked to a state issued computer every month. A shop near me does this, and they approached me about doing it too, but I couldn't bring myself to profit on someone's misfortune in that way. Not defending those who have been busted, just don't want to make my money that way!

Right, it's a lot easier to control those kinds of variables with a conventional breathalyzer to prevent false attempts, but that's not what they're wanting to add to vehicles. In the proposed new devices, they're metering ethanol content in the atmosphere immediately surrounding it, and that's far easier to fool. There's no possible way for it to know where exactly that air is coming from, whether it's being filtered or not, whether the ethanol is coming from gasoline fumes from the guy filling up next to you while your door is open, or you got some of that ethanol containing gasoline on your clothing while fueling up, any of it really.

For it to not disable all sorts of drivers who weren't drinking at all and inciting absolute pitchfork riots, it has to be very tolerant of all sorts of conditions, which would make it vulnerable to all sorts of bypasses in turn. Imagine a scenario where you're way out in the sticks camping and your wife or friend gets gravely injured, but you need to top off with your govt. mandated 15% ethanol fuel from your gas can because it's a long drive. You're struggling and in the rush to get back to civilization, a little bit of it splashes on your pants. You get back in and the sensor detects ethanol, it disables the vehicle, and by the time you figure out a workaround to get the vehicle going again, your passenger bleeds out. In order for every single human responsible for that sensor being in the vehicle not getting their asses sued straight to the Great Depression, it'll need to be very tolerant of a lot of things for actual safety reasons.

 

[Bmadda]

Right, it's a lot easier to control those kinds of variables with a conventional breathalyzer to prevent false attempts, but that's not what they're wanting to add to vehicles. In the proposed new devices, they're metering ethanol content in the atmosphere immediately surrounding it, and that's far easier to fool. There's no possible way for it to know where exactly that air is coming from, whether it's being filtered or not, whether the ethanol is coming from gasoline fumes from the guy filling up next to you while your door is open, or you got some of that ethanol containing gasoline on your clothing while fueling up, any of it really.

For it to not disable all sorts of drivers who weren't drinking at all and inciting absolute pitchfork riots, it has to be very tolerant of all sorts of conditions, which would make it vulnerable to all sorts of bypasses in turn. Imagine a scenario where you're way out in the sticks camping and your wife or friend gets gravely injured, but you need to top off with your govt. mandated 15% ethanol fuel from your gas can because it's a long drive. You're struggling and in the rush to get back to civilization, a little bit of it splashes on your pants. You get back in and the sensor detects ethanol, it disables the vehicle, and by the time you figure out a workaround to get the vehicle going again, your passenger bleeds out. In order for every single human responsible for that sensor being in the vehicle not getting their asses sued straight to the Great Depression, it'll need to be very tolerant of a lot of things for actual safety reasons.

Let's not forget that ethanol IS NOT the only intoxicating substance which can impair a person's ability to drive (tho would certainly be the most popular one). I just don't see how this tech can work reliably, and not be an intrusion on the customer. Seems simpler to me to just have the AI drive the car, and then don't worry how drunk I am? Of course that tech has failed as well, so maybe we were doing the best we could w/the methods we had?

 

[zombie]

Interesting - I live in Canada and was not aware of this in the USA. I know these can be court-ordered installed, and fully appreciate that this is still an issue (sadly), but just wondering if this would be implemented when there’s other impairments or distracted driving taking place at (presumably) higher rates?

I’m still shocked dash cameras aren’t standard equipment in all newer vehicles.

I'd bet there are more accidents caused by idiots who can't put down their phone than drunk drivers, nowadays.

But as with the huge push to switch all cars to EVs (meanwhile cars aren't even in the top 5 for sources of man-made pollution) nobody cares about what will actually make a difference, they care about what will APPEAR to make a difference.

 

[timhood]

The cost of this has got to be expensive. If anything it should be 100% subsidized by either the sale of alcohol or better yet, fines from drunk drivers.

Not expensive, but of course, not zero, either. I would be kind of nice that every drunk driving conviction requires a fine that pays for 10 sensors in cars and the manufacturers are funded that way if they don't add the cost to the MSRP. Yeah, not practical, but fun to dream about.

This is a problem that could be solved with better education and an effective punishment and treatment for offenders. I realize we are not there yet, but I'm all about fixing the problem and not the symptoms.

Unfortunately, it's been 40+ years of better education, dramatically increased punishments, etc. They have been effective at dramatically reducing the incidents of drunk drivers, but there will always be the hard-headed ones. A technology that can prevent a problem rather than punish it is a better approach. Just the cost of education would be more than the cost of the sensor.

This shouldn't have to be something imposed on everyone.

Agreed, but sometimes it comes to things like this when other options have been exhausted. I'm not sure there aren't better options still available. This is not something I keep up-to-date on.

There are many days I'm running errands and I'm getting in and out, starting and stopping engine. Will I have to breath into a tube every time? Easily could be over a half a dozen times a day with my schedule. Really annoying in the morning going to work, stopping for gas, coffee, maybe a bagel every time breath in tube .... nope still not drunk, car.
Pick daughter up from school, stop by parents house - still not drunk.

This tube will get full of nasty smelling bacteria fast, not to mention spreading sickness...

This isn't the breathalyzer type of sensor like you've heard about in court-ordered installations. This is a passive system. No tubes. Think of a system where a sensor in your car analyzes your breath. Or the steering wheel reads your BAC. Likely, it would be a system that combines with other tech such as the cameras and sensors that are already a part of other driver-assist technologies. The camera that checks for an inattentive driver can make sure that the driver is the one who's holding the wheel or otherwise providing the readings and that no one will swap drivers. Yes, it would check every time someone tries to drive.

 

[DriveAllNight]

not to add to the political ticking time bomb ready to go off, but here were go…make them cardboard straws and that will fix everything.

and we're back to seeing thousands of these carboard straws all over the side of the road because people suck. More forests being chopped down to meet the demands, causing more global warming and lack of habitat for woodland creatures, because recycling has never met the demands on paper products. I'm betting that carboard will have to be treated like pizza boxes with silicone for accuracy or some stupid crap which is a really eco friendly way to go

And just imagine running out of straws and not being able to get to the store to buy them because your car won't start, and amazon can't deliver them for 3 more days due to out of stock issues.
There are so many reasons why this could and will backfire and prove to be pointless because alcoholics will all have disabled these systems anyway, and there is no way to enforce this with every car on the road.

It's just such a sh!t solution to a problem, but God forbid we invest in people, mental health and education and actually help people instead of trying to wrap the Earth in bubble wrap to protect us after the fact.

 

[MayhemMike]

You nailed it! Drunk driving is a big problem, the even bigger problem is those that have not experienced it think it's not a problem. Those with the problem denie it. Friends do let let friends drive drunk. As you stated, this is proven technology, been around a long time, not sure why the OP thinks this is a ten year death sentence.

I am thinking this “ court ordered device” is the car installed breath tester which is not the same thing the OP is inquiring about. The drunk sensors are basically the same as the sensors that detect if the driver is sleepy or not driving correctly, ( cell phone use, sex while motoring ,etc).

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