Electronics; how much is too much?

[Ole Skool Bronc]

@Stampede.Offroad

Your chart matches "GrimJeepers" Calculator with a 4:1 transfer case, 3:73's & 33's. Is it true the Bronco is getting a 4:1? My EB with a Dana 20 is a 2.73.

At 4:1 with the 10R80 will have a 70:1 crawl ratio, while not bad, is not great either. I'd like to see it closer to 100:1. (a Rubi with a manual is something like 84:1?) If they don't go 4:1, we'll have something like a 47:1 crawl ratio - NOT competitive with the Jeep Rubicon.

I hope they don't put that Raptor clutch transfer case in. (while I have no experience with the Raptor one, other clutch transfer cases in the past have been junk - 'for wheeling' - not bad for on road snow) - Who wants to pay $50,000 and then have to buy an Atlas?


10R80 Transmission

1st Gear
4.70

2nd Gear
2.99

3rd Gear
2.15

4th Gear
1.80

5th Gear
1.52

6th Gear
1.28

7th Gear
1.00

8th Gear
0.85

9th Gear
0.69

10th Gear
0.64

Reverse
4.87

NP271/273 Transfercase ?
High Range
1.00
Low Range
2.71

3.73 axle gear ratio.
33" tire size.
Final Drive Ratio
TC HI TC LO1
1 17.53 47.51
2 11.15 30.22
3 8.02 21.73
4 6.71 18.19
5 5.67 15.36
6 4.77 12.94
7 3.73 10.11
8 3.17 8.59
9 2.57 6.97
10 2.39 6.47
R 18.17 49.23


NVG241OR (Jeep)
High Range
1.00
Low Range
4.00

3.73 axle gear ratio.
33" tire size.
Final Drive Ratio

TC HI TC LO
1 17.53 70.12
2 11.15 44.61
3 8.02 32.08
4 6.71 26.86
5 5.67 22.68
6 4.77 19.10
7 3.73 14.92
8 3.17 12.68
9 2.57 10.29
10 2.39 9.55
R 18.17 72.66

Sponsored

 

[OX1]

@Stampede.Offroad

At 4:1 with the 10R80 will have a 70:1 crawl ratio, while not bad, is not great either. I'd like to see it closer to 100:1. (a Rubi with a manual is something like 84:1?) If they don't go 4:1, we'll have something like a 47:1 crawl ratio - NOT competitive with the Jeep Rubicon.

But with that much overdrive, no reason you couldn't put 4.56's in, if you wanted (with say a 35/36).........

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

... As for the manual, I am hoping it has a first gear of 6+:1 and the remaining gears are pretty much a conventional 6 speed. According to Getrag's spec sheet for the 7MTI550, you can get up to a 8:1 gear spread. Therefore with a 6.00:1 1st gear, you could still have a 7th gear overdrive of .75:1.

Those numbers look pretty good compared to the Wrangler. I don't know **** about what a well performing manual trans should look like, but the spacing and RPM:speed ranges look more balanced, and the low end would come out as 98:1 with a 4x low or as 67:1 using the Ranger's 2.717:1 t-case.

.

.

.

@Stampede.Offroad

Your chart matches "GrimJeepers" Calculator with a 4:1 transfer case, 3:73's & 33's. Is it true the Bronco is getting a 4:1? My EB with a Dana 20 is a 2.73.

At 4:1 with the 10R80 will have a 70:1 crawl ratio, while not bad, is not great either. I'd like to see it closer to 100:1. (a Rubi with a manual is something like 84:1?) If they don't go 4:1, we'll have something like a 47:1 crawl ratio - NOT competitive with the Jeep Rubicon....

Yeah, someone on the JL forum posted the calculator and I picked a copy up to play with.

The 4:1 low was just for easy comparison to the Wrangler. It looks like the current ratio Ford is using is 2.717. And the gear ratios for the 10 speed line up with other Ford trucks, so it seems probable for the Bronco. 47:1 with a 2.717 and typical 3.73 isn't bad, but it doesn't really compare to the Wrangler, and some other sticker package trucks have numbers in the 60's.

.

.

 

[Ole Skool Bronc]

But with that much overdrive, no reason you couldn't put 4.56's in, if you wanted (with say a 35/36).........

The 36's and the 4.56's might cancel each other out (we would be at about the same drive ratio as with 33's). You bring up a good point; a lot of guys don't like going lower than 4.56's because of the small pinion gear. Which brings us to the question of differentials offered and available gearing. I think anything 36 and up, keeping optional performance is going to be 4.88's or 5.38's. I'm having a similar problem with a TJ with a Rubi Crawler; the problem now isn't low range, but the steep 42RLE overdrive is killing me and a Dana 30 wont accept 5.38's nor will a Rubi 44.

Your Calculator is cooler than mine, lol! I really like it. Can you post a link???
Thanks for all the charts - I love those things!

 

[OX1]

The 36's and the 4.56's might cancel each other out (we would be at about the same drive ratio as with 33's). You bring up a good point; a lot of guys don't like going lower than 4.56's because of the small pinion gear. Which brings us to the question of differentials offered and available gearing. I think anything 36 and up, keeping optional performance is going to be 4.88's or 5.38's. I'm having a similar problem with a TJ with a Rubi Crawler; the problem now isn't low range, but the steep 42RLE overdrive is killing me and a Dana 30 wont accept 5.38's nor will a Rubi 44.

Your Calculator is cooler than mine, lol! I really like it. Can you post a link???
Thanks for all the charts - I love those things!

That's why I went mogs with 7.56's. If I had that .64 overdrive, and used 2.73, 9" centers (which
would give me a 5.82 overall), it would be plenty streetable.............

 

[OX1]

I can tell you that even the 2.3L Ecoboost has a hell of a lot more torque off idle than a 22RE, a 2.8L Cologne V6, and a 2.5L Jeep/AMC I4,

Not sure what that has to do with older, large displacement, higher stall, mechanically throttled, non turbo'd setups that were used to estimate this effective 2:1 gearing multiplier back in the day.

And the ECO's still have lag, just like described here. " While there's a brief hesitation in throttle response just off idle,"
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a29145957/2020-ford-mustang-ecoboost-high-performance-drive/

I chalk it up to those that:

Either have never driven a setup with near instant throttle response,
are in denial about it.
or worst of all, think it's a bad thing.......

But, it's fun to do "something" on this board, vs another 10 pager on speculating color options.

I am a manual transmission guy

They are fun, or good if your starter craps out (and pre-electronic throttle, they could be crisper in on/off throttle response).
But clutches don't slip very well, for very long, where as I can bang on a converter for 10 minutes and all I need is a big enough trans cooler. (and as mentioned, emergency maneuvers).

Not sure I'd have gotten out of this one with a manual. I was certainly a bit slow to react, but once I did, reverse was RIGHT there, LOL!!
http://luxjo.supermotors.net/Northumberland OHV Park/10 DEC 2011/VID_20111210_112918.mp4

Anyway, glad they seem to be offering one, as those who love them on the trail, love them.
(and that means swapping the 2.3 or 2.7 into something else, just became easier
using the man trans ECM)...... I hope they put the new 7.3 (gasser) in something
with a manual, but I doubt it.

 

[Ole Skool Bronc]

That's why I went mogs with 7.56's. If I had that .64 overdrive, and used 2.73, 9" centers (which
would give me a 5.82 overall), it would be plenty streetable.............

Did you find them new or used? $$? Extensive Fabbing required? (Your talking TJ right?)

 

[Ole Skool Bronc]

I can tell you that even the 2.3L Ecoboost has a hell of a lot more torque off idle than a 22RE, a 2.8L Cologne V6, and a 2.5L Jeep/AMC I4, all of which run trails without the kind of gear range offered by the 10R80. The 10R80 first gear is significantly lower than the 3.96:1 first gear in the TK5 manual transmission in my Bronco II, but it has a torque converter in front of that.



No one has any idea what the Bronco will be getting for a transfer case, but I can guarantee that it won't be an NV271 since they are out of production now, and were a heavy duty transfer case anyways (3/4 ton+ only). Your EB Dana 20 is not 2.73:1, the early T-shift version was 2.46:1 if memory serves, and the later J-shift version was 2.38:1.

A 70:1 crawl ratio with an automatic is excellent, and enough for running the most extreme trails with big tires. 100:1 with an automatic is starting to get ridiculous. Without a higher stall converter, you are going to start driving through the brakes which can be pretty disconcerting at times. 47:1 with factory axle gears, while not as impressive as the Jeep Rubicon, is still not bad at all considering that is with 3.73 axle gears. As a general rule of thumb, you want a crawl ration of at least 50:1 with an auto and 100:1 with a manual for difficult technical trails. However, 30+:1 for an auto and 60+:1 for a manual is good enough for most trails. Obviously low end engine torque, vehicle weight, and tire size as well as the technical difficulty of the terrain have a huge effect on what someone would consider adequate gearing.

I am a manual transmission guy through and through, but the gearing spread offered by these new 10 speeds is enough the make me consider straying.



The small pinion strength issue is blown out of proportion and actually wrong in some cases...

Yes, I stand corrected; my 72 it is a 2.46 they changed to 2.34 in 73. I didn't "iirc", been 10 years since I last wrenched on it.

The 271 was just an example; I don't know what's going on in the Ford world anymore. After my last Ford Diesel I lost my brand loyalty and never looked back.

I do have one Auto TJ, but everything else are Manuals. If I'm feeling lazy; I'll drive the Auto, admittedly it is easier to wheel. But I find myself driving Maunals more; they are just plain more fun to drive everywhere and especially in the rocks with 100:1!

Tiny pinion blown out of proportion? Maybe - I used to say the same thing until my buddy with a TJ /4:88's/35's stripped his wheeling lightly.

If I like the BroncoBronco, I assume I'd choose the manual and adjust the axle gearing and tire size for what works for me.

 

[OX1]

Only going to find 404's used. Not a jeep........
Yes, major fabbing, especially front, since stock, diff is only 4" off center and 3rd members are like 80 feet long.

Surprisingly, drag link, track bar, and lower coil spring mounts allowed using, more or less, the stock placements as was the 78/79's solid axle setup. The rest was 3 link, as tie rods are behind axle. Rear is just leaf with a huge traction bar.

I do have a set of 9" housings with mog ends, set up for 406 portal boxes ready for "something", someday.
Those are the on'es that could be set up streetable, if you can find those 2.73 9" R+P's (of which I have 2 sets)
Sorry for the monster pics.........

 

[Ole Skool Bronc]

So a low pinion axle (runs on the coast side of the gear), probably some Chi-com gears, and if it broke "wheeling lightly" as you claim, likely setup improperly.

I set up some Chinese 5.13s in a buddy's HP Dana 30 .......

Sorry, should of been more specific; his was in a 35 rear end - so yeah. Good to hear about the 5:13's holding up - I have been kinda skeptical about those. My TJ's have the low pinion 30 - so I'm kinda stuck. Been thinking about swapping one out. A XJ hp would be super easy, but not really worth it (unless I break it) and anything more is $$. Now my 53 Willys CJ3B has 9's front and back but has the turning radius of an extended cab long bed truck. I'm going to save some $$ for a while and see how this Bronco thing pans out.

 

[Ole Skool Bronc]

@OX1

Now I understand your screen name! Thanks for the pics, looks good,
interesting rear track bar.

 

[OX1]

@OX1

Now I understand your screen name! Thanks for the pics, looks good,
interesting rear track bar.

It's certainly an east coast rig. Too tall for side hilling, without lots of trees to "rest" against.
But it goes over stupid size rocks on lines that only 2 feet under the diff allows (thank god, as
all the trails are cut jeep size, so I don't get to pick my lines most times). Whatever size they
make the new bronc, it won't be too big more me, compared to what I'm used to.

Would be cool if someone makes portals for the new bronc, but guessing they are a lot easier
to do with solid axles.

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

...
Your Calculator is cooler than mine, lol! I really like it. Can you post a link???
Thanks for all the charts - I love those things!

This looks like the right one:

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/gearing-calculator.38206/

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z1xBG_ATYFeRk88ZZBbFNqvIz71IEqOVl_ynTd7pplY/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Ole Skool Bronc]

This looks like the right one:

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/gearing-calculator.38206/

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z1xBG_ATYFeRk88ZZBbFNqvIz71IEqOVl_ynTd7pplY/edit?usp=sharing

It works ~ Thank you!

 

[Guidr3]

Any Body That’s Ever Driven An E.B Stock Knows How Dangerous They Were To Drive Over 60 MPH Give Me Retro But Give Me Safety!

Sponsored