Ford Mach E prototype spotted for the first time

[JimmyDean]

Nah... I want a car. Not a phone.

I don't see why people have issues with electric cars, for an around town, to/from work, or even a road trip car as long as enough infrastructure is there and charging times aren't too significant (no more than half hour for every 4 hours of driving), then they sound great. And free up from a lot of constraints of IC engines.

Now for something like a work truck that would often be offroad, or hunting/camp truck, trail rig etc, not so much. It'd be easier it seems to bring along extra gas, or get gas out to a vehicles that's empy, then to try and charge an electric miles away from civilization, up in the mountains or wherever.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound and feel of a big V8 going blub blub blub blub at the light, but from a performance and aesthetic perspective, you simply cannot beat electric capabilities, at least not until you get to the insane high end of performance, or require things like very long run times with no downtime (think race cars with 1-2 second refuel times). At this point, the love for classics is solely about nostalgia and aesthetics anyways. I love my 71 mach 1, but I know that it will never be able to out perform a modern mustang GT, in straight line performance, or on a road course, or in comfort or reliability. Anything that that car can do, or that I can do to it, would be done better in a newer GT.

The same for trucks, look at tow ratings of modern trucks, and they do this with good reliability and getting good gas mileage. with a whole lot of creature comforts your 78 F-150 can only dream about.

the only market where I would say that classics have an edge is in off-road, due to simplicity to do a quick fix, weight, and size. You simply cannot make a new vehicle that will outperform a modified EB or CJ-5 on the trail, or the rocks, or even in the mud long term.

But for on the road work, as of right now I would have to give the edge to the upcoming electrics for their performance capabilities, and a number of other advantages that they offer. From an environmental standpoint though I would say that they are currently on par with standard IC vehicles due to the Li/Cad-ion batteries

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[Nanook]

In regards to DRIVING experience, none of the electric vehicle offerings are rewarding to drive.
They are as you mentioned simply capsules to go from A-B quickly and quietly. The focus is not on the driving but transporting.

 

[BONESTOCK]

In regards to DRIVING experience, none of the electric vehicle offerings are rewarding to drive.
They are as you mentioned simply capsules to go from A-B quickly and quietly. The focus is not on the driving but transporting.

Exactly. I'm still not old enough, 38, to simple get in a "boring capsule" and go to work. I like to enjoy my ride and drive and feel and head nobs and etc! I don't see any electric car out there and get any chub at all. Plus the horror stories from the Tesla people. Bend a wheel....loss the car for a couple month until they replace it for a gigamillion pennies. TFL had Tommy back it into the garage and it took Telsa months to fix it. And it cost like $15k or something crazy. What a pain. No thanks.

 

[JimmyDean]

In regards to DRIVING experience, none of the electric vehicle offerings are rewarding to drive.
They are as you mentioned simply capsules to go from A-B quickly and quietly. The focus is not on the driving but transporting.

I'm not talking Echo's or prius type electrics (commuter cars), I am talking electrics with the equivalent of 600+ ft-lb torque available at 'idle' whenever needed type electrics. things like the higher end Tesla's or the Tesla roadster are really the only 'production' ones that we've see so far, but there will be many more, and the Mach E is supposed to be into that market as well.

Being electric, you could program the computer to give you a throttle response feel like an ICE muscle car if you wanted, or straight all power right away, or however the hell you want. I really think that people are being extremely shortsighted in the performance capabilities of electric in on-the-road situations. And also missing out on design constraints that it gets rid of, with reduced cooling requirements, being able to fully pan the underside of the car for aerodynamics, room made available for some sweet suspension designs, the ability to put the CoG anywhere needed without having to add weight to the car, things such as this.

Do not get me wrong, I will always own multiple classics and ICEs, V8s, turbo-diesels, and such, but I can fully see myself ending up with an electric sports-mobile sometime in the next decade.

And also, ngl, a self driving RV within the next 20 years. that I can't wait for. get off of work on Friday, step into the RV in the work parking lot that just arrived with my family, play boardgames for a few hours, go to sleep, wake up....wherever...Disney, or in Houston to watch the Astros, do what we do for the weekend, sunday night load back up into the RV, wake up Monday morning getting close to the office, get ready for work, step out of the RV in work parking lot, and it takes off to drop kids off at school, wife at home, whatever.

 

[JimmyDean]

They'll be the first fully autonomous non-commercial vehicle to actually make it to market, simply due to the costs. followed by luxury cars, then down to typical consumer cars, imo.

 

[Nanook]

This is the problem when you get into conversations with electric cars.
Yes they are quick, I’m sure by now we have all seen Tesla sedans and SuV’s Embarrassing expensive sports cars/super cars 0-60 and even qtr mile.
They also do something else extremely well and that’s remove driver errors or mask them by automatically correcting your lane position, braking distance, throttle application etc.
Yes I agree this can be said for most new cars as well. So if I’m comparing daily drivers, yes electric vehicles make sense.
But I am not blind to the fact that the current electric cars want to remove the driver. As I said, if Acceleration is what rewards you then electric can’t be beat. But does the Tesla need a steering wheel for your hands and an acceleration pedal on the floor? No, it can tackle any performance claims by itself. The normal driver controls are there strictly to abide by laws.
Hopefully Porsche changes this with the Taycan and the electrics move toward more driver involvement but until then you’re just along for the ride.

 

[JimmyDean]

This is the problem when you get into conversations with electric cars.
Yes they are quick, I’m sure by now we have all seen Tesla sedans and SuV’s Embarrassing expensive sports cars/super cars 0-60 and even qtr mile.
They also do something else extremely well and that’s remove driver errors or mask them by automatically correcting your lane position, braking distance, throttle application etc.
Yes I agree this can be said for most new cars as well. So if I’m comparing daily drivers, yes electric vehicles make sense.
But I am not blind to the fact that the current electric cars want to remove the driver. As I said, if Acceleration is what rewards you then electric can’t be beat. But does the Tesla need a steering wheel for your hands and an acceleration pedal on the floor? No, it can tackle any performance claims by itself. The normal driver controls are there strictly to abide by laws.
Hopefully Porsche changes this with the Taycan and the electrics move toward more driver involvement but until then you’re just along for the ride.

There is nothing you said here that cannot be done in an ICE as well. The electrical drive vs electronic controls are separate systems. Most of the autonomous vehicles being tested are ICE. the first lane keeping cars were ICE. the Mustang GT has lane keeping and braking and advanced cruise control functions. These systems are in no way synonymous with electric drive vehicles. Shoot, the Bronco we are on the board to discuss will certainly have many of these features, and provided it lasts long enough will also have fully autonomous capabilities.

 

[Nanook]

Yep I said that

 

[JimmyDean]

Yes I agree this can be said for most new cars as well.
But I am not blind to the fact that the current electric cars want to remove the driver.

I am aware of the first line, but am talking about the second. How is that any different from the direction ICE cars have been heading for years? Including the sports cars? Yes, the sports cars will keep driver involvement, as I'm sure things like the Tesla roadster any other electric sports cars will.

You implied that what electrics are doing is somehow different than the direction that ICEs are headed. I am stating that there is no difference, even including the edge cases like sports cars. the only difference in directions is the intended purpose of the car, i.e. commuter vs truck vs sports car, but the goals of those divisions is the same for both ICE and electric.

 

[Nanook]

Then it was misinterpreted.

Current ICE sports cars focus on driver

Current electrics that are as quick as sports cars do not.

To make it relevant to this topic. MachE will do 0-60 in 3.5 because it’s the MachE propelling itself in that time.

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

... But does the Tesla need a steering wheel for your hands and an acceleration pedal on the floor? No, it can tackle any performance claims by itself. The normal driver controls are there strictly to abide by laws. ...

You're giving the automated driving systems far more credit than they deserve. We're at least a decade away from a vehicle that can actually drive autonomously. I haven't heard of a single one that can find it's way down a dirt road or through the snow or rain downpour -- they rely _heavily_ on perfect road and weather conditions.

I don't know where you drive, but the roads here certainly aren't perfect.

 

[Nanook]

I don’t think I am. I am not arguing daily driving.

In terms of performance, the greatest claim the Electrics offer is acceleration. I am most familiar with the Tesla’s as that is what I have spent the most time in.
The steering wheel is pressure sensitive, there are you tube videos on how to trick the steering wheel into thinking your hands are on it. The accelerator being in the normal spot as a gas pedal is just for familiarity. It could very well be a button located anywhere.
The vehicle will accelerate at the same rate full throttle and provide steering inputs to keep you going straight whether you are a professional race car driver or someone that has never driven a vehicle of any kind before in your life and the vehicle will repeatedly meet the mfg claims of performance.

That is not rewarding to ME. Because it’s not me.

 

[TeocaliMG]

I don’t think I am. I am not arguing daily driving.

In terms of performance, the greatest claim the Electrics offer is acceleration. I am most familiar with the Tesla’s as that is what I have spent the most time in.
The steering wheel is pressure sensitive, there are you tube videos on how to trick the steering wheel into thinking your hands are on it. The accelerator being in the normal spot as a gas pedal is just for familiarity. It could very well be a button located anywhere.
The vehicle will accelerate at the same rate full throttle and provide steering inputs to keep you going straight whether you are a professional race car driver or someone that has never driven a vehicle of any kind before in your life and the vehicle will repeatedly meet the mfg claims of performance.

That is not rewarding to ME. Because it’s not me.

The point other's here are trying to make is that this is true of all modern ICE cars as well. Clutch pedals, throttle pedals, gear selectors, 4x4 engagement, drive modes, its all electric. The visceral experience you are talking about is simulated in either case. I can tell you ICE's are on the verge of being steer by wire, let that sink in, no BEV required...Computer control is only moving in one direction, and its not slowing down, and whether the car is powered by a fuel burning engine or electric motor is of secondary importance. There's not even an E-brake to pull anymore lol

That said, I am still a believer in ICE's. Electric motors are great but they aren't the end all be all of performance either. Doesn't mean ICE's are inherently more "for drivers" however

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