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The point was, at some point, the car does so much, why do you even have to be in it?
IC cars are not totally immune from this, GTR practically drove itself compared to everything else,
when it first came out.

I don’t see what it does that other cars don’t. Heck even a F150 will do everything but bitch slap you when you start veering out of your lane.
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The point was, at some point, the car does so much, why do you even have to be in it?
IC cars are not totally immune from this, GTR practically drove itself compared to everything else,
when it first came out.
Interesting point. No parking spots close at the mall? Have it drop you off at the door and go find a parking place on its own. Airport? Screw paying those parking fees - send it home and have it wait for you at the curb when you get back. Tires need rotation? Send it to the dealer and have it stop on the way home to pick up some shrimp at the grocery store.

There will eventually be some awkward moments when it is late getting home, using the timeless excuse of "traffic was horrible" but you suspect it was actually just hanging around at the Jiffy Lube checking out the undercarriages of the cars on the lift...
 

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I don’t see what it does that other cars don’t. Heck even a F150 will do everything but bitch slap you when you start veering out of your lane.
Which F150 varies regen braking to help oversteer again??
Even if the F150 brakes to attempt the same thing, the fine control of it is not there.

Michael Neumeyer, Tesla Manager of Chassis Controls, told Road and Track:

“Our Track Mode doesn’t disable features, it adds them,”

Apparently, it doesn’t just turn off stability and traction controls, instead, it exploits the features differently to change the feel of the Model 3.

We speculated that it could also involve the use of regenerative braking which can be helpful when racing. Neumeyer confirmed that.

He said that the transfer of regen between the front and back motors of the Model 3 Performance helps balance the car during hard cornering.

It also enables some oversteer. Road and Track reported:

“It also gives the Model 3 Performance a nifty trick no other Tesla can do: Lift-throttle oversteer, coded right into the software. In Track Mode, the regenerative braking is increased significantly—up to 0.3g of deceleration, compared to a max of 0.2g in street trim. When you lift in a corner, the regen tosses all the weight forward, loading up the front axle. The rear tires, now regenerating under much less weight, break loose. The stability control looks the other way. Presto! Oversteer.”


https://electrek.co/2018/08/03/tesla-engineer-model-3-performance-track-mode/
 

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Interesting point. No parking spots close at the mall? Have it drop you off at the door and go find a parking place on its own. Airport? Screw paying those parking fees - send it home and have it wait for you at the curb when you get back. Tires need rotation? Send it to the dealer and have it stop on the way home to pick up some shrimp at the grocery store.

There will eventually be some awkward moments when it is late getting home, using the timeless excuse of "traffic was horrible" but you suspect it was actually just hanging around at the Jiffy Lube checking out the undercarriages of the cars on the lift...
Car thieves going to love that, when most people don't even care where their car is...........
Hack in, send car to container in Port Elizabeth (NJ), have car second car out driving route,
emulating where it was really going (or if you are really good, emulation doesn't even need second car).

Then an hour later, both cars and "trails" go dark............ Thief won't even have to be in either car......... (or even in the country)

Eventually, the convenience freaks will not be able to even walk

1.png
 
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Interesting point. No parking spots close at the mall? Have it drop you off at the door and go find a parking place on its own. Airport? Screw paying those parking fees - send it home and have it wait for you at the curb when you get back. Tires need rotation? Send it to the dealer and have it stop on the way home to pick up some shrimp at the grocery store.

There will eventually be some awkward moments when it is late getting home, using the timeless excuse of "traffic was horrible" but you suspect it was actually just hanging around at the Jiffy Lube checking out the undercarriages of the cars on the lift...

Ok all that stuff you just mentioned, would be awesome! Sorry to say it’s probably a few years out though for middle income people such as ourselves to even have such a thing.
 

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Which F150 varies regen braking to help oversteer again??
Even if the F150 brakes to attempt the same thing, the fine control of it is not there.

Michael Neumeyer, Tesla Manager of Chassis Controls, told Road and Track:

“Our Track Mode doesn’t disable features, it adds them,”

Apparently, it doesn’t just turn off stability and traction controls, instead, it exploits the features differently to change the feel of the Model 3.

We speculated that it could also involve the use of regenerative braking which can be helpful when racing. Neumeyer confirmed that.

He said that the transfer of regen between the front and back motors of the Model 3 Performance helps balance the car during hard cornering.

It also enables some oversteer. Road and Track reported:

“It also gives the Model 3 Performance a nifty trick no other Tesla can do: Lift-throttle oversteer, coded right into the software. In Track Mode, the regenerative braking is increased significantly—up to 0.3g of deceleration, compared to a max of 0.2g in street trim. When you lift in a corner, the regen tosses all the weight forward, loading up the front axle. The rear tires, now regenerating under much less weight, break loose. The stability control looks the other way. Presto! Oversteer.”


https://electrek.co/2018/08/03/tesla-engineer-model-3-performance-track-mode/

Ok so Regen braking scares the crap out of you and you will never touch an electric car because of it. got it...
Ok so anybody else got anything?

Let me tell you a story.

I think it was back in the late 80’s early 1990’s or so there was this young man who let’s just just call him RoncoRider for story sake.. Anyway this RoncoRider dude (real cool Kat by the way) had an absolute conniption fit when he suddenly couldn’t modulate his own brakes to the point of locking them up due to this new tech called ABS.
He had done enough track days to the point he was an absolute pro at taking his brakes to the max without fully locking them up on the corners.
Suddenly, with his brand new mustang gt he would brake to the point a wheel would just barely scub loose one tire from the pavement, not even fully lock it up and then the whole braking system took a total crap and modulated the pedal in his foot! For somebody who never in their life had abs, the only natural instinct when this happens was to release pressure on the pedal some to make it all stop!
This was all very confusing for RoncoRider.
RoncoRider was told the new tech is awesome, it will save lives and all you need to learn when a wheel Starts to slightly scrub and the ABS kicks on just push the pedal even harder and the system will take care of the rest.. Not just RoncoRider complained about this disaster called ABS. NOBODY who grew up learning how to modulate their own brakes and let up on the brake if your starting to skid was happy about this. Suddenly a computer was letting OFF the brakes for you at the same exact time your brain tells you “hmm, feels like I’m losing traction, better let off some..” .
So back to today. RoncoRider being decades in to getting used to his new abs, does he like it? Hell no! Hates that garbage. Does he think it’s a good idea it’s on every damn car made for the last few decades? Well hell yea, nobody can drive a car anymore. They drive like idiots and I don’t think half of them could stop without abs. Too busy on the phone to car about proper driving.

The point being, show me ANY new car that doesnt have driver nannies. Even formula one is now using abs AND traction control!
The debate of actually being able to really drive a car Is decades old. Fight it all you want, It’s only going to get worse and guess what, it’s all going to get put in to ice cars too.
 
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Car thieves going to love that, when most people don't even care where their car is...........
Hack in, send car to container in Port Elizabeth (NJ), have car second car out driving route,
emulating where it was really going (or if you are really good, emulation doesn't even need second car).

Then an hour later, both cars and "trails" go dark............ Thief won't even have to be in either car......... (or even in the country)

Eventually, the convenience freaks will not be able to even walk

1.png

The only company making that over the top stuff there mission is Tesla. Tesla is not the only company making new electric cars. Most people who can afford to buy electric cars are definitely not the one percenters buying Tesla’s with the super expensive autopilot option.
 

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Car thieves going to love that, when most people don't even care where their car is...........
Hack in, send car to container in Port Elizabeth (NJ), have car second car out driving route,
emulating where it was really going (or if you are really good, emulation doesn't even need second car).

Then an hour later, both cars and "trails" go dark............ Thief won't even have to be in either car......... (or even in the country)

Eventually, the convenience freaks will not be able to even walk

1.png
For that matter, they wouldn't care whether you're in it or not. I guess having to get the smell out of the upholstery when it gets to Columbia might be a deterrent.

My girlfriend's daughter is due in about a month - I was thinking the other day that it is entirely possible her kid will never learn to drive in the sense that we know it today. There's already an immense portion of the motoring public that can't drive a stick, or navigate without a smartphone, can't parallel park, and would find it extremely challenging to change a tire - elementary skills that were taken for granted scarcely a generation ago.

I remember watching the movie you referenced - and I thought they totally nailed it with the people in the video chairs. That IS where we're headed, given the current trajectory.
 

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...There's already an immense portion of the motoring public that can't drive a stick, or navigate without a smartphone, can't parallel park, and would find it extremely challenging to change a tire - elementary skills that were taken for granted scarcely a generation ago.
...
That's one of the biggest reasons I use a dash camera. Lack of automotive skills doesn't just mean a rude driver or poor vehicle maintenance, it also usually means they're a danger not just to themselves but the people on the road with them.
 

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Let me tell you a story.
Not sure what all that babble was about. You asked what electric cars do on the race track, that others cars don't.
I'm not "afraid" of technology, but I do think when you get enough of it, it takes the driver more and more,
out of the equation..........
 

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Hes the guy who lost control in a electric car which you said wasn’t possible.
Hope everyone had a great Labor Day weekend! Get your popcorn

“It saves you? Like it saved the test driver dude from flying off the track out of control and taking out the grass?”

When you over drive the “saving features” and keep your foot into it that happens. When the mfg (Tesla) gets upset and analyzes all the data that was captured for that particular track and a new software program is developed and installed on the car and then voila it goes substantially quicker around the track...is that the driver or the car?

“So by flat footing it you think electric cars have a toggle switch pedal that’s not proportional? Just push for go and let off for stop? So basically you think because it’s an electric car the guy applies the throttle full stroke all the way around the track until he’s done and the car takes care of all the corner speeds, braking, lines to take etc...”

Nope, this is where you get delusional and make ignorant claims. Obviously you need to brake, a correct driving line will help your lap time but I stand by my claim that a driver regardless of their ability can achieve the same straight line performance as others. Since you live in Phx you can appreciate this. I personally have driven a Tesla S p85d (my engineer’s/partner in crime)and while very very quick I have experienced getting on the I10 from the 143 leaving the airport, you know the 25mph decreasing radius carousel on-ramp...and on corner exit put the accelerator to the floor. Any car with that much power would have put me in the wall or had the back end come around so fast I’d be staring at headlights. The electronics took over and shot me on to the freeway at a startling rate of speed. All I did was put my foot to the floor, no steering inputs, no sense of tire spin, nothing... you don’t need to get angry, nobody is calling your baby ugly. Simply go to the Tesla forums it’s not a secret or watch auto cross videos of Tesla’s. A proper driver will be quicker around a racetrack but not as much as if you were to take a pro level driver and an amateur and put them in say a stock mustang gt. That’s the only point I was trying to make.

“Lastly, you don’t for one minute have any sort of respect for how quickly battery powered cars have progressed in just a few years?”

Actually my company that I love sponsors a very successful Formula E car. I also own a couple rc cars and love the idea of an electric trail bike while I’m out camping. I also was one of the people that thought it would be cool if Rivian technology made its way to the bronco.

“if that’s the case bro, you won’t ever have any respect for the technology as anything other than a gimmick.. there’s just nothing Tesla or a Ford Mach E could pull off that would impress you in the least because you my friend are in denial that the tech is actually pretty damn interesting..”

Now you’re just a child throwing a tantrum, you clearly haven’t read any of my posts or know who I am. As referenced above I do think it’s cool and actually get to touch it.

Lastly, if you did wreck your electric car...please get one with autopilot. If you’re in a tesla it’s trying to save you and make you feel like a hero. If you were driving a Prius or a volt or a CMaxx, calm down out there. You’re in an electric vehicle lol
 

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Hope everyone had a great Labor Day weekend! Get your popcorn

“It saves you? Like it saved the test driver dude from flying off the track out of control and taking out the grass?”

When you over drive the “saving features” and keep your foot into it that happens. When the mfg (Tesla) gets upset and analyzes all the data that was captured for that particular track and a new software program is developed and installed on the car and then voila it goes substantially quicker around the track...is that the driver or the car?
I have an EVO8 I track (about 360 AWHP), so no electronic center or rear diff's like non US spec evo's, but I still get to somewhat cheat on corner exit, by not having to worry about traction at that point in the corner (especially since boost takes time to build). Is that "cheating", maybe. But this car has 60% of the weight on the front, ZERO low end torque, so it understeers no matter what you do and you have to shift a lot to keep in the power band. It takes a whole bunch of effort and skill to get the most out of it, which being a relative newb on roadracing, I don't have yet. The thrill is being on the edge. I think I would easily be faster in a model 3, but it would not be as exciting since it is more the car, and less me.

I think that is all we are trying to point out is that the tech is crazy cool, it just can make the driver much less relevant. Dating myself, it's like the Star Treck movie where Kirk is in the Nexus. He jumps the horse over a ravine, but doesn't get the thrill, as he knows it's not real and he knows he was going to make it.
 

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Not sure what all that babble was about. You asked what electric cars do on the race track, that others cars don't.
I'm not "afraid" of technology, but I do think when you get enough of it, it takes the driver more and more,
out of the equation..........
Don’t remember saying anything about a race track..
 

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Hope everyone had a great Labor Day weekend! Get your popcorn

“It saves you? Like it saved the test driver dude from flying off the track out of control and taking out the grass?”

When you over drive the “saving features” and keep your foot into it that happens. When the mfg (Tesla) gets upset and analyzes all the data that was captured for that particular track and a new software program is developed and installed on the car and then voila it goes substantially quicker around the track...is that the driver or the car?

“So by flat footing it you think electric cars have a toggle switch pedal that’s not proportional? Just push for go and let off for stop? So basically you think because it’s an electric car the guy applies the throttle full stroke all the way around the track until he’s done and the car takes care of all the corner speeds, braking, lines to take etc...”

Nope, this is where you get delusional and make ignorant claims. Obviously you need to brake, a correct driving line will help your lap time but I stand by my claim that a driver regardless of their ability can achieve the same straight line performance as others. Since you live in Phx you can appreciate this. I personally have driven a Tesla S p85d (my engineer’s/partner in crime)and while very very quick I have experienced getting on the I10 from the 143 leaving the airport, you know the 25mph decreasing radius carousel on-ramp...and on corner exit put the accelerator to the floor. Any car with that much power would have put me in the wall or had the back end come around so fast I’d be staring at headlights. The electronics took over and shot me on to the freeway at a startling rate of speed. All I did was put my foot to the floor, no steering inputs, no sense of tire spin, nothing... you don’t need to get angry, nobody is calling your baby ugly. Simply go to the Tesla forums it’s not a secret or watch auto cross videos of Tesla’s. A proper driver will be quicker around a racetrack but not as much as if you were to take a pro level driver and an amateur and put them in say a stock mustang gt. That’s the only point I was trying to make.

“Lastly, you don’t for one minute have any sort of respect for how quickly battery powered cars have progressed in just a few years?”

Actually my company that I love sponsors a very successful Formula E car. I also own a couple rc cars and love the idea of an electric trail bike while I’m out camping. I also was one of the people that thought it would be cool if Rivian technology made its way to the bronco.

“if that’s the case bro, you won’t ever have any respect for the technology as anything other than a gimmick.. there’s just nothing Tesla or a Ford Mach E could pull off that would impress you in the least because you my friend are in denial that the tech is actually pretty damn interesting..”

Now you’re just a child throwing a tantrum, you clearly haven’t read any of my posts or know who I am. As referenced above I do think it’s cool and actually get to touch it.

Lastly, if you did wreck your electric car...please get one with autopilot. If you’re in a tesla it’s trying to save you and make you feel like a hero. If you were driving a Prius or a volt or a CMaxx, calm down out there. You’re in an electric vehicle lol
I don’t even know how this turned into track racing and performance talk with unnecessary insults.
it’s a electric crossover suv or whatever and your ramming how Tesla took away some of your driving experience down my throat.
I happen to think the ev stuff is exciting, regardless of how you want to use it.. track, commute, beer holder.. That’s my opinion.
I’ll stick to my original claim, having an electric vehicle in the garage is a good thing.
 

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