Many vehicles currently over MSRP

[Comadivine11]

You are making very ridiculous statements, nearly everything displays no knowledge or insight.

Throw away lines like "corporate bootlicker" and "greed" might get you upvotes on Reddit or retweets...so maybe try those echo Chambers.

Again a response that reflects your personal feelings with zero substance.


People like you love to throw phrases around like, "free market, supply and demand, and capitalism" but rarely actually know what these things mean beyond their most simplistic definitions.

When dealers add $20k markups, yes, it fits under the term supply and demand in the very broadest sense. But it's not really what's going on. Dealers are middlemen, they produce zero goods. Ford doing markups because of supply issues would be more in line with true supply and demand principles. A dealership, who has no responsibility for acquiring components to manufacture a good, adding "because we can" fees is more in line with price gouging than actual supply and demand.

They are taking advantage of the fact that there are morons out there who are willing to pay exorbitant prices. Dealers that choose to do this are leeches, not bastions of capitalism.

Sponsored

 

[bdub2you]

Yeah, how about ~$100k for a Rav4!

The Rav4 Prime is a plug in hybrid with very limited production (they're much rarer than Broncos) that has been selling for well over retail since it came out, but that's an insane market up over msrp.

 

[VegasJason]

I don’t see how credit unions or banks will finance these cars that are 10-30k over MSRP. You would have to pay the difference in cash before financing.

They won’t. Speaking from underwriting experience. The only way these are getting sold at those prices is to those who have enough money to burn.

 

[BroncoAZ]

I still refuse to be a bootlicker for corporate greed. Manufacturers provide more than enough profit at MSRP for dealerships to survive. The only reason these dealerships are charging these prices is because there are idiots out there willing to pay them. If nobody would pay the outrageous prices, they'd start selling at the suggested prices. It's greed because they can. It has nothing to do with "having to make ends meet."

If this were a normal market where the dealerships could get inventory for all models then I would agree with you, but that’s not the case. Dealerships base their financials on hitting a sales goal, say 300 units per month. When the manufacturer can only deliver a couple dozen cars a month there is not enough profit at MSRP to make the financials work. It’s a dealership model, so there is always greed involved, but this is something different.

Go ahead and don’t buy a new vehicle this year, there are millions of other people who have the money or need a car and are willing to pay the premium to have something now.

Granger is still offering good deals on Fords, Rams and Jeeps....Look around the forums to see their pricing, but it is mostly under invoice.

Exactly how many people on this forum are left holding the bag on a Grainger under invoice Bronco deal into 2023 or later? It doesn’t matter how good the deal is if they can’t get inventory. I’ll pay MSRP and have my Bronco in a more reasonable amount of time. Nothing against Grainger, Ford screwed them.

 

[Lilj4425]

Everything is over MSRP right now. Even the damn bananas at the grocery store are.

 

[Rusty Sheckelford]

Again a response that reflects your personal feelings with zero substance.


People like you love to throw phrases around like, "free market, supply and demand, and capitalism" but rarely actually know what these things mean beyond their most simplistic definitions.

When dealers add $20k markups, yes, it fits under the term supply and demand in the very broadest sense. But it's not really what's going on. Dealers are a middlemen, they produce zero goods. Ford doing markups because of supply issues would be more in line with true supply and demand principles. A dealership, who has no responsibility for acquiring components to manufacture a good, adding "because we can" fees is more in line with price gouging than actual supply and demand.

They are taking advantage of the fact that there are morons out there who are willing to pay exorbitant prices. Dealers that choose to do this are leeches, not bastions of capitalism.

Nah bro, Rugby is right. You're being completely ridiculous.

A dealers operating costs don't magically disappear when they go from selling 100 vehicles/month to 20 vehicles per month. Unless you want them to fire their sales staff to save money? (Sure some people may become jobless, but at least Comadivine11 will get his car at MSRP!) Dealers may not produce goods, but they do create jobs for your fellow citizens, and they offer services by selling and repairing parts and vehicles.

I have no love for Ford or the dealers, but there is simply no other way to make up for the loss of vehicle sales than to raise prices on what few vehicles they are receiving. It's really not that complicated to understand..

 

[Comadivine11]

Nah bro, Rugby is right. You're being completely ridiculous.

A dealers operating costs don't magically disappear when they go from selling 100 vehicles/month to 20 vehicles per month. Unless you want them to fire their sales staff to save money? (Sure some people may become jobless, but at least Comadivine11 will get his car at MSRP!) Dealers may not produce goods, but they do create jobs for your fellow citizens, and they offer services by selling and repairing parts and vehicles.

I have no love for Ford or the dealers, but there is simply no other way to make up for the loss of vehicle sales than to raise prices on what few vehicles they are receiving. It's really not that complicated to understand..

I might believe this argument if there weren't plenty of dealerships still selling at MRSP. Negates your point. My local and relatively small (volume-wise) dealership is still selling at MSRP. Another dealership that sells much more volume about 20 miles away is doing $5-10k markups. Kind of puts your claim on its head.

 

[hemiblas]

If this were a normal market where the dealerships could get inventory for all models then I would agree with you, but that’s not the case. Dealerships base their financials on hitting a sales goal, say 300 units per month. When the manufacturer can only deliver a couple dozen cars a month there is not enough profit at MSRP to make the financials work. It’s a dealership model, so there is always greed involved, but this is something different.

Go ahead and don’t buy a new vehicle this year, there are millions of other people who have the money or need a car and are willing to pay the premium to have something now.



Exactly how many people on this forum are left holding the bag on a Grainger under invoice Bronco deal into 2023 or later? It doesn’t matter how good the deal is if they can’t get inventory. I’ll pay MSRP and have my Bronco in a more reasonable amount of time. Nothing against Grainger, Ford screwed them.

I am one, but that was Ford. They can order anything (except a Bronco) and get it in a timely manner. Agreed if you want a Bronco, unless Ford changes their allocation system, they are not the best bet at the moment. They are totally understanding and have been helpful of people transferring out to local dealers for MSRP, but sooner build dates.

 

[Jhuff]

I might believe this argument if there weren't plenty of dealerships still selling at MRSP. Negates your point. My local and relatively small (volume-wise) dealership is still selling at MSRP. Another dealership that sells much more volume about 20 miles away is doing $5-10k markups. Kind of puts your claim on its head.

I fall on your side of the argument. Dealer Invoice prices are not up 25%, only their overhead. I would gladly pay a small premium to compensate for increased utility bills and decreased sales, but the math doesn't add up to the massive Adams we are seeing.

If my dealer is so financially unstable as to need that much extra money to keep the doors open, they should be grateful I brought my reservation to to them at all, even near MSRP. Otherwise I would give it to the dealers that can survive near MSRP

 

[cscottp67]

I can’t tell you how bad I feel for buying my bronco @ msrp and it being worth $20,000
More than I paid for it.

 

[Rusty Sheckelford]

I might believe this argument if there weren't plenty of dealerships still selling at MRSP. Negates your point. My local and relatively small (volume-wise) dealership is still selling at MSRP. Another dealership that sells much more volume about 20 miles away is doing $5-10k markups. Kind of puts your claim on its head.

That's a fair point, but we don't know each dealers financial situation. Yours might have deeper pockets and might be able to weather the storm for longer without raising prices?

I'm sure there are some dealerships taking advantage, but I wouldn't want to make the claim that all those dealers are just ripping people off. I like to give some benefit of the doubt before assuming the worst.

 

[Comadivine11]

That's a fair point, but we don't know each dealers financial situation. Yours might have deeper pockets and might be able to weather the storm for longer without raising prices?

I'm sure there are some dealerships taking advantage, but I wouldn't want to make the claim that all those dealers are just ripping people off. I like to give some benefit of the doubt before assuming the worst.

I'm sure the reality is somewhere between my argument and what others are making on here. I just have a hard time sympathizing with dealerships doing ridiculous markups, =P. Meanwhile, I'll be getting my Bronco in February at MSRP.

 

[BroncoAZ]

I might believe this argument if there weren't plenty of dealerships still selling at MRSP. Negates your point. My local and relatively small (volume-wise) dealership is still selling at MSRP. Another dealership that sells much more volume about 20 miles away is doing $5-10k markups. Kind of puts your claim on its head.

My small town dealership bases their finances on selling 20 cars per month to a small, repeat customer base. They are doing OK in this market and are not charging big ADM. I’ll be buying my Bronco from them in a few weeks for MSRP. They did ask me if I would consider using their financing so they could make a few more bucks, I told them that if the rates were comparable I would have no problem using theirs.

On the contrary a large dealership that normally sells hundreds of vehicles per month is not doing well selling dozens. There is a much larger overhead, staff burden, parts inventory, etc. to float month to month.

 

[LowerSlowerDelaware]

Hard to justify an ADM on a vehicle if the Manufacturer is offering Cash Back and Special Financing Rates as low as 0% for 60 months or more.

Thanks to the chip shortage whipsaw effect, Ford has a glut of MY21 F150s now.

The remaining Dirt Mtn Broncos are mostly MICs.

And the easiest way to beat ADM is with Patience and a Factory Order.

 

[22greenfordbronco]

Oakland has tech millionaires nearby who are paying $2-3M for 1,000 ft2 condos.

That doesn’t make it any more intelligent.

Sponsored