Sasquatching a Non-Sasquatch

[TuttyC]

I have a 2.3 manual trans black Diamond non-sas. I have the opportunity to pick up a factory set of Sasquatch wheels and tires (315s). I was planning on adding a 2” lift and running these wheels. I’m looking for a little More clearance for muddy fire roads and light 4x4 trails in northern New England. I won’t doing any extreme rock crawling. I will also be using it for driving on roads and highways. I was wondering about the gearing and overall drivability with the larger tires and the manual transmission. Good or bad idea to do the swap. And any complications I need to know about ie new wheel offset/backspacing/clearance ect.
thansk for your time -T

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[ilbastarge]

I have a 2.3 manual trans black Diamond non-sas. I have the opportunity to pick up a factory set of Sasquatch wheels and tires (315s). I was planning on adding a 2” lift and running these wheels. I’m looking for a little More clearance for muddy fire roads and light 4x4 trails in northern New England. I won’t doing any extreme rock crawling. I will also be using it for driving on roads and highways. I was wondering about the gearing and overall drivability with the larger tires and the manual transmission. Good or bad idea to do the swap. And any complications I need to know about ie new wheel offset/backspacing/clearance ect.
thansk for your time -T

These might be a concern about the robustness of the 7 speed with the Squatch wheels. Other than that the Squatch travel limiter/lift has been debated for quite some time.

 

[SnowBronco]

I have a 2.3 manual trans black Diamond non-sas. I have the opportunity to pick up a factory set of Sasquatch wheels and tires (315s). I was planning on adding a 2” lift and running these wheels. I’m looking for a little More clearance for muddy fire roads and light 4x4 trails in northern New England. I won’t doing any extreme rock crawling. I will also be using it for driving on roads and highways. I was wondering about the gearing and overall drivability with the larger tires and the manual transmission. Good or bad idea to do the swap. And any complications I need to know about ie new wheel offset/backspacing/clearance ect.
thansk for your time -T

Sooo, I just kinda half squatched the one I picked up yesterday... But not really. I put some zero offset wheels on mine with some Toyo Open Country CT 33' tires. E load rated... And SAS flares on my manual badlands. Kinda looks the same as the sas, but without any extra drama and worry.

Ps.. also you'll be fine. Especially with the lift. The manual I believe has 4.7 gearing anyways. The same as the sas.

 

[NC_Pinz]

Do it. They are putting the 7 speed with Squatch next year so there is not concern with larger tires and the transmission. If you are only looking for extra clearance and a better stance on the road, it sounds like a good plan. Your differential gearing will still be set up for smaller tires so your acceleration and mileage will take a hit.

 

[TuttyC]

Wow looks awesome! What brand and where did you get those rims? Love it!

 

[Stitches1974]

The manual I believe has 4.7 gearing anyways. The same as the sas.

4.46 gears. Adding the 4.7 gears automatically adds the 10 speed and sas package.

 

[SnowBronco]

4.46 gears. Adding the 4.7 gears automatically adds the 10 speed and sas package.

Thanks for the clarification. I assumed that my Badlands manual would have the same gearing. Mine's got 4.7.

 

[OX1]

Was discussed in detail in another thread, but I guess I don't understand the fascination with ultra amounts of gear, that was not required with prior bronco motors, that had much less power.

Even an 88ish 302, 185@3800/270@2400 and a Mazda 5 speed with only a 3.90 first gear was fine with only going to 4.10's for "35's". Not counting the 7 speed's creeper, you would have required a 4.90 rear end gear back in the day, to get the same overall ratio (4.28 * 4.46) of the new bronc, and very few went to that kind of gear for only 35's.

 

[BroncoAZ]

Was discussed in detail in another thread, but I guess I don't understand the fascination with ultra amounts of gear, that was not required with prior bronco motors, that had much less power.

Even an 88ish 302, 185@3800/270@2400 and a Mazda 5 speed with only a 3.90 first gear was fine with only going to 4.10's for "35's". Not counting the 7 speed's creeper, you would have required a 4.90 rear end gear back in the day, to get the same overall ratio (4.28 * 4.46) of the new bronc, and very few went to that kind of gear for only 35's.

People did exactly that with 4.88 gearing being very popular with 35” tires on a FSB for people who actually went offroad. With the E4OD 4.56 was standard for 33” tires and 4.88 was standard for 35” tires.

It’s all about matching the gearing to the tire size to get a decent highway RPM and giving it the torque to start rolling off the line. Keep in mind that CAFE fleet fuel economy standards drive many of these choices. I’d surmise that engineers designed the system to use the ultra low gears compared to what was done 30-40 years ago because of the significant overdrive gearing available in today’s transmissions, .636:1 in the automatic and .646:1 in the manual. These very high overdrives require lower axle ratios to maintain drivability in their top gear on the highway. I think the 3.73 in the base automatic is too high for the highway, but the 10 speed can compensate. Looking at the first gear ratios of 4.714:1 in the automatic and 4.283:1 in the manual explains why the base auto comes with 3.73 and the base manual with 4.46.

With an automatic transmission axle gearing is more critical, because the transmission is programmed to operate within certain parameters that are dependent on a specific tire size. Too big of a tire without enough gearing is more drivable on a manual because the operator can engage the clutch slower and get it rolling and rev it higher before shifting.

As for the older Bronco’s, they came stock with a 28.9” tall tire and usually 3.55 axle gearing and in the case of a C6 or T-18, a 1:1 top ratio. The E4OD was a .71:1 ratio overdrive. As a person that built multiple FSB’s, axle gearing was certainly more critical with the E4OD automatic than my T-18 manual. My 96 was a dog on 35” tires, regearing to 4.88 was the solution. On my 87 on 35” tires I regeared from 3.55 to 4.10, it wasn’t as significant as I thought it would be and I was running 3200 RPM at 75 mph. The truck was certainly easier to get going from a stop with the lower gearing, so it saved clutch wear. The T-18‘s 6.32 first gear wasn’t used on the street, like the crawler gear on the new Bronco. With the M5OD‘s .080:1 overdrive I still would recommend 4.56 as a minimum gear with 35” tires, 4.10 isn’t enough. I always wanted to do a ZF5 swap in my 87.

 

[goatman]

Was discussed in detail in another thread, but I guess I don't understand the fascination with ultra amounts of gear, that was not required with prior bronco motors, that had much less power.

Even an 88ish 302, 185@3800/270@2400 and a Mazda 5 speed with only a 3.90 first gear was fine with only going to 4.10's for "35's". Not counting the 7 speed's creeper, you would have required a 4.90 rear end gear back in the day, to get the same overall ratio (4.28 * 4.46) of the new bronc, and very few went to that kind of gear for only 35's.

Engines normally had a lower rpm torque band back then, and most people re-geared when going to bigger tires. But, the 4.46 gears should work fine, you just run one gear lower in the trans for most situations to get the same performance.

 

[1975U15]

Sooo, I just kinda half squatched the one I picked up yesterday... But not really. I put some zero offset wheels on mine with some Toyo Open Country CT 33' tires. E load rated... And SAS flares on my manual badlands. Kinda looks the same as the sas, but without any extra drama and worry.

Ps.. also you'll be fine. Especially with the lift. The manual I believe has 4.7 gearing anyways. The same as the sas.

Well done! Looks like you’re about flush with the bigger flares at 0 offset or is there a little poke? Have any side shots?

 

[SnowBronco]

Well done! Looks like you’re about flush with the bigger flares at 0 offset or is there a little poke? Have any side shots?

Just a little poke... Lol

 

[OX1]

Engines normally had a lower rpm torque band back then

Not according to at least 100 people on this list that argued with me for several years about that. Your going to have to take that up with them though, I'm just regurgitating the "company line".

 

[Mdemieville]

4.46 gears. Adding the 4.7 gears automatically adds the 10 speed and sas package.

On a manual badlands no sasquach it gives you the 4.7 gears. Not sure if it's the same on black diamond or not but I know it's been confirmed for badlands

 

[Stitches1974]

On a manual badlands no sasquach it gives you the 4.7 gears. Not sure if it's the same on black diamond or not but I know it's been confirmed for badlands

BL is not the same as BD. Multiple differences, including gears.

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