Speaker Filters, Blockers

[ILoveToDrive]

Setup…
Kicker 200.4, 4”polk audio dash w/600 bass blocker, , stock kick panel, 6.5” in Mabett pods w/300 blockers , 6.75” 4ohm kicker sub with Fusion amp…all set to speaker/tweeter.
Other than changing filters and settings on the kicker, I don’t want to make any hardware changes.
The sound is still muffled…more so in the pods, but generally more muffled at lower volume. I’m looking for more clarity

Addressable variables…
Gain setting on the 200.4
Hi-pass filters on the 200.4
Blockers on the speakers

@RagnarKon (resident guru) or anyone else have any experience addressing the muffled sound issue?

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[MannyG20]

Did you put poly fill in the Mabet pods? Mine sounded very muffeled before I packed it with poly fill.

 

[Dan-O]

I had muffled rears also after switching to 6.5 and found the after market plug/adapter I used changed polarity….I just couldnt understand how I missed it but I did.

 

[ILoveToDrive]

I had muffled rears also after switching to 6.5 and found the after market plug/adapter I used changed polarity….I just couldnt understand how I missed it but I did.

How can I test for that? I own a meter

 

[ILoveToDrive]

Setup…
Kicker 200.4, 4”polk audio dash w/600 bass blocker, , stock kick panel, 6.5” in Mabett pods w/300 blockers , 6.75” 4ohm kicker sub with Fusion amp…all set to speaker/tweeter.
Other than changing filters and settings on the kicker, I don’t want to make any hardware changes.
The sound is still muffled…more so in the pods, but generally more muffled at lower volume. I’m looking for more clarity

Addressable variables…
Gain setting on the 200.4
Hi-pass filters on the 200.4
Blockers on the speakers

@RagnarKon (resident guru) or anyone else have any experience addressing the muffled sound issue?

I’m reposting this to hopefully hear guidance on the relationship between hi-pass filter settings on the 200.4, the gain setting, and changing/eliminating bass blockers. Also willing to explore the poly-fill, as well as swap out the 6.75 4ohm kicker sub for an 8”.
mid appreciate hearing from folks that have actually tested some of these “fixes”.
What exactly does the hi-pass filters do? The 200.4 is not touching the sub.
@RagnarKon …your mileage plus experience always seems to provide great actionable ideas…got any insights?

 

[Dan-O]

How can I test for that? I own a meter

So I’m not sure if you have had the rear channels flashed by ford or if you have adjusted in Forscan, if not, the rear channels will not sound the way a person would think they should sound. The rears are high pass filtered by the actual head unit/ford programming. With that being said, to check for correct polarity using a meter, simply place positive probe on positive side of speaker post and negative probe on negative side of speaker post while stereo is playing. If polarity is reversed your meter will show a negative symbol next to numbers, if it doesn’t show - symbol then it is phased correctly. If it does show polarity is reversed, then I would suggest unplugging nearest connector to speaker and check for polarity again, taking note of which wire leads to positive/negative speaker terminals. But just know, that if rear channels have not had the high pass filter adjusted, they will sound muffled-ish only highs.

 

[TexasHeritage]

when you set the rear pods to speaker/tweeter did you also turn if the factory EQ in forscan? If not, trying turning that off is Forscan and see if that helps.

 

[TexasHeritage]

from @RagnarKon:

EQ Settings - ACM 727-01-02

• xxYY-xxxx-xxxx
  • 00 = EQ Off
  • 01 = EQ On (High-pass filter on the rear pods)

 

[BroncoByte]

Hey, @ILoveToDrive

I see that you asked what a high-pass filter does. This relates to what both @TexasHeritage and @Dan-O mentioned about needing to make changes to the EQ (equalizer) using Forscan. Essentially, the stock rear speakers in the Bronco are very small, and not designed to play bass tones. In general, a bass tone would be frequencies below 250 Hz. This is why the stock audio system has the equalizer configured with a high-pass filter. I actually tested this the other day, and I found that the stock high-pass filter was set to somewhere between 300-400 Hz. The high-pass filter will attenuate the output of frequencies that fall below the frequency it is set to. This means that if you play a test tone at 100Hz when there is a high-pass filter applied at 300hz, the output would be weaker relative to the rest of the frequencies above 300Hz. If you are using the rear-channel signal to feed your subwoofer, but you have not disabled the EQ in the Bronco's audio system, then essentially your rear channels and the subwoofer are getting no bass frequencies. This is important because since you installed rear pods with bigger speakers, they are likely designed to play frequencies lower than the 300Hz that the stock speakers are limited to. Look up the frequency response range of your new speakers to figure out what frequencies your speakers ought to play.

Here are the results of the test I did the other day. As you can see, the blue and orange lines (which both have the EQ active) start falling rapidly when the test tone frequency is below 300-400 Hz, gradually muting the bass. The green line shows the output when the EQ is disabled (and the speaker size is "tweeter"). This is what we might call a "flat" output - the output at all frequencies is essentially the same, with no reduction in voltage for specific frequencies.

As for gain on your amp, the manufacturer probably has instructions for how that ought to be configured. I would recommend following the manufacturer's advice to get the best sound, but if you think it might be set incorrectly, I would personally go back and do it again to make sure it's right. The point of the gain setting on an amp like this is to ensure that the output signal is "maximized" which means you get the strongest possible clean signal, with as little distortion as possible. If you wished, you could test if your amplifier is outputting roughly the appropriate voltage to your speakers, though you should follow the manufacturer's advice on how to dial in gain first. This method is just a way to check that your amplifier's output is not significantly low or high, which could be an indication that your gain is incorrectly set. Here's how you can test the gain of your amp with your multimeter:

1. Disconnect your speakers from the amp.
2. Set the Bronco's audio volume to whatever volume you used when the amp's gain was initially dialed in. That's probably 75% of the max volume.
3. Play a test tone at 1000Hz (for midrange) or 50Hz (for subwoofer)
   1. you can use a test tone generator app and just connect through Bluetooth to the head unit
4. With the meter set to AC Voltage, connect the probes (red to +, black to -) to the speaker output on the amplifier and measure the voltage.
5. Compare the measured voltage to the expected voltage for your speaker.
   1. You can calculate your expected voltage using this formula Voltage(V) = √(Power (watts) × Resistance (ohms))
   2. For example, if your speakers have a resistance of 4 ohms, and rated to 60 watts RMS, then the expected maximized voltage is voltage = √(60 × 4) = √(240) = ~15.5 V

If the measured voltage is significantly off from the expected voltage for your speakers, then that could be an indicator that the gain on the amp is set incorrectly.

that's all I got, so best of luck trying to figure it out! Feel free to correct me if anyone thinks I've made a mistake. Thanks!


Edits: 4/19 for typos and clarity.

 

[Dan-O]

Hey, @ILoveToDrive

I see that you asked what a high-pass filter does. This related to what both @TexasHeritage and @Dan-O mentioned about needing to make changes to the EQ (equalizer) using Forscan. Essentially, the stock rear speakers in the Bronco are very small, and not designed to play bass tones. In general, a bass tone would be frequencies below 250 Hz. This is why the stock audio system has the equalizer configured with a high-pass filter. I actually tested this the other day, and I found that the stock high-pass filter was set to somewhere between 300-400 Hz. The high-pass filter will attenuate the output of frequencies that fall below the frequency it is set to. This means that if you play a test tone at 100Hz when there is a high-pass filter applied at 300hz, the output would be weaker relative to the rest of the frequencies above 300Hz. If you are using the rear-channel signal to feed your subwoofer, but you have not disabled the EQ in the Bronco's audio system, then essentially your rear channels and the subwoofer are getting no bass frequencies. This is important because since you installed rear pods with bigger speakers, they are likely designed to play frequencies lower than the 300Hz that the stock speakers are limited to. Look up the frequency response range of your new speakers to figure out what frequencies your speakers out to play.

Here are the results of the test I did the other day. As you can see, the blue and orange lines (which both have the EQ active) start falling rapidly when the test tone frequency is below 300-400 Hz, gradually muting the bass. The green line shows the output when the EQ is disabled (and the speaker size is "tweeter"). This is what we might call a "flat" output - the output at all frequencies is essentially the same, with no reduction in voltage for specific frequencies.

When it comes to Gain on your amp, the manufacturer probably has some instructions when it comes to how that ought to be configured. I would recommend following the manufacturer's advice to get the best sound, but if you think it might be set incorrectly, I would personally go back and do it again to make sure it's set correctly. The point of the gain setting on an amp like this is to ensure that the output signal is "maximized" which means you get the most possible clean signal, with as little distortion as possible. If you wished, you could test if your amplifier is outputting roughly the appropriate voltage to your speakers, though you should follow the manufacturer's advice on how to dial in gain first. This method is just a way to check that your amplifier's output is not significantly low or high, which could be an indication that your gain is incorrectly set. Here's how you can test the gain of your amp with your multimeter:

1. Disconnect your speakers from the amp.
2. Set the Bronco's audio volume to whatever volume you used when the amp's gain was initially dialed in. That's probably 75% of the max volume.
3. Play a test tone at 1000Hz (for midrange) or 50Hz (for subwoofer)
   1. you can use a test tone generator app and just connect through Bluetooth to the head unit
4. With the meter set to AC Voltage, connect the probes (red to +, black to -) to the speaker output on the amplifier and measure the voltage.
5. Compare the measured voltage to the expected voltage for your speaker.
   1. You can calculate your expected voltage using this formula Voltage(V) = √(Power (watts) × Resistance (ohms))
   2. For example, if your speakers have a resistance of 4 Ohm, and rated to 60 watts RMS, then the expected maximized voltage is voltage = √(60 × 4) = √(240) = ~15.5 V

If the measured voltage is significantly off from the expected voltage for your speakers, then that could be an indicator that the gain on the amp is set incorrectly.

that's all I got, so best of luck trying to figure it out! Feel free to correct me if anyone thinks I've made a mistake. Thanks!

That’s a great very understandable description of what/how to set and adjust amp and speaker set up!!

 

[ILoveToDrive]

Setup…
Kicker 200.4, 4”polk audio dash w/600 bass blocker, , stock kick panel, 6.5” in Mabett pods w/300 blockers , 6.75” 4ohm kicker sub with Fusion amp…all set to speaker/tweeter.
Other than changing filters and settings on the kicker, I don’t want to make any hardware changes.
The sound is still muffled…more so in the pods, but generally more muffled at lower volume. I’m looking for more clarity

Addressable variables…
Gain setting on the 200.4
Hi-pass filters on the 200.4
Blockers on the speakers

@RagnarKon (resident guru) or anyone else have any experience addressing the muffled sound issue?

1 year later update...

My old settings -

My new settings -

Kicker200.4 driving the front and rears.
I changed my rear pods (6.5" Polk Audio) to Sp from Sp/Tw. I also packed the rear pods with poly fill.

The sound quality is so much better! More clarity, not as muffled. Very happy with the result of a couple "no cost" tweaks. Now I'm thinking of bumping up to the 8" Kicker 4ohm sub. I've got a fusion amp driving the sub. I'm thinking it will give me a fuller low end and nicely round out the sound stage.
Can someone that has put the 8" sub into the stock sub box tell me if I can simply put it in the existing hole and just secure it with sheet metal screws without having to alter the opening? If I do need to alter the opening, what's the best way to do that? I'm afraid of irreparably messing up the box and then I'm in a world of shit.
@RagnarKon Bryan, I know you were all over this topic a while back. Any wisdom to share?

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