Stock tires in snow/ice

[VirginiaHeritage]

The owners manual has a lot to say about snow chains, including that you should only use them on the back wheels. (EDIT: just saw someone already mentioned this).

I’ve never used chains and never will where I live now. Metal-studded snow tires were on my Tacoma for a few months every winter when I lived in AK in the 90s. I drove all the way from Anchorage to Virginia with those studs on for my final trip. Had hours of fresh-snow highway miles in Canada which was unexpectedly fun. I had the tires de-studded when I got to Virginia and drove them like that until they wore out.

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[jakej]

Thanks for the insight everyone! Sounds like I should be fine if staying on a plowed road but going anywhere unplowed or off road should definitely have chains.

Follow up, and probably a dumb question but, should I plan to have 4x chains? Saw that most sets come in pairs.

OP, I'm in San Diego, but regullarly travel to Mammoth in our '21 Outer Banks. The original tires have performed very well in the snow, even after a big snow and roads in town not plowed yet. Very good traction in Sand/Snow GOAT mode. Of course, drive slower and be careful.

Like several others on this thread, I carry chains, but have never had to put them on. You only need one set (unless going way off-road) - If I ever have to put them on, I'll put them on the back for max traction, but some recommend the front.

 

[cobro92]

I live in the Colorado mountains (very different than the sierras) and I think the stock Goodyear MTs are very good in our (relatively) fluffy light snow. Nobody (besides commercial vehicles) really uses chains here. IMO, stock tires as good as any other 3PMS A/T tire. Not as good as a dedicated snow tire but it will get you to 99% of places on most plowed/maintained roads.

 

[ThunderFlash]

@jahwild, I think you will have trouble finding a chain/cable/sock/etc. that fits the 315/70-R17 tire on our WTs. @Brian_B, you thought the GYs were as good as your Falken AT3Ws? The Falkens are 3 PMSF rated, so I would have thought they would be better. I was considering MT Baja Boss ATs for my next set since they are 3 PMSF rated.

I went out with a group once last year into a 6-12 inches of snow in the mountains here in Washington with my WT "Buck" on FS roads. The GYs with 20K miles on them did pretty dang well in our typical WA "corn snow", but once it became compacted into essentially ice, it was a different story. After waiting for the OBX in front of me to chain up and on restarting forward, I lost all traction and ended sliding backwards about 150-200 feet @ 5 mph on a very slight grade. There was no stopping or steering it. Fortunately, I was last in line and ol' Buck choose to stay in the ruts. Going off the one side would have been the demise of me and Buck. Even sliding backwards at that speed into another Bronco would have likely caused significant tail gate/back glass damage for me and maybe front end damage on the other truck. I turned around after that and departed the group. I grew up in Ohio and snow being a required hazard of daily winter life seems less "fun" to me. Stuck is one thing, crunched into a rock/tree, another truck, or slipping off a cliff is another thing.

One piece of advice I'd offer for snow/ice....don't go any faster than you are willing to hit something. That can be a hard promise to keep on icey hills.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

[Brian_B]

@Brian_B, you thought the GYs were as good as your Falken AT3Ws? The Falkens are 3 PMSF rated, so I would have thought they would be better. I was considering MT Baja Boss ATs for my next set since they are 3 PMSF rated.

I don't know what all goes into the 3P rating testing, if there is any certification required beyond just a vendor saying "Yes, it is". And my driving on the GYs certainly didn't encompass every type of driving surface or weather condition you may encounter.

But yeah, for what I was driving in, the GYs did as well as a 3P rated tire. They were notably better than my MT Baja Legend AT (not the same tread or 3P rating as the Baja Boss AT, which is 3P rated)

 

[HertiageMerica]

They work just fine even in sub zero temps.
Have chains and a shovel just incase but I’ve had no issues

 

[Steve_In_29]

I do live in the mountains, and when we get good fresh snow - the CHP will set up road blocks down just before the snow line. They don't usually make you put them on - I've only had that happen once, but they do make sure you have them or they turn you around. And if the snow gets worse or the plows get delayed, they just close the road down usually.

The gas stations and auto stores around here make a killing selling to people who didn't bring a set. They don't even check if they will fit - just ... have chains.

I've also had park rangers check to make sure I was carrying chains at entrances to the park in CA.

I have a set in my Bronco right now... but they won't fit my current tires. If I had to put them on I'd be screwed. I do need to get another set

When we were in CA I never had to deal with the road blocks as we lived in 29 Palms and just went through Pioneertown and up 2N02 to Big Bear.

 

[EasternSierra]

When we were in CA I never had to deal with the road blocks as we lived in 29 Palms and just went through Pioneertown and up 2N02 to Big Bear.

But on the main highway, yeah they can have checkpoints. It was 40 years ago now (!!!!!) but I remember a checkpoint above Mill Creek on 38 that kept me from getting up to the newly snowed-upon mountains because I didn't have chains. The mountains were well-frosted on a beautiful bluebird morning.

 

[Steve_In_29]

But on the main highway, yeah they can have checkpoints. It was 40 years ago now (!!!!!) but I remember a checkpoint above Mill Creek on 38 that kept me from getting up to the newly snowed-upon mountains because I didn't have chains. The mountains were well-frosted on a beautiful bluebird morning.

I'm well aware of those checkpoints. I just never had to use those roads because of where I lived.

 

[ThunderFlash]

I don't know what all goes into the 3P rating testing, if there is any certification required beyond just a vendor saying "Yes, it is".

I looked into it a little. Interesting, a "M&S" rating, like on the GYs, is solely based on tread design alone. Not sure what the requirement is, but probably some geometry requirements on voids, sipping, block size/shape thing.

The 3 Peak Mountain Snow Flake or 3PMSF rating has an actual performance test requirement to deliver at least 110% the accelerative traction of some standardized reference tire on medium packed snow and also maintain a level of flexibility at 40 °F (4°C). There is an ASTM test requirement for traction (ASTM F1805). The certifications are handled by US DOT, Transport Canada, and some EU Bodies.

Ice, braking, and cornering are not part of the test requirement. Seems a little odd to me, braking is probably the most important aspect in my opinion. Also curious what the "reference tire" is for the test. 110% the traction of a Hooser race slick would be a pretty low bar to surpass!

Edit: turns out the STD Ref Test Tire (SRTT) was revised from a 14" tire to a 16" tire since Michelin quit making the 14" SRTT around 2016 time frame. Man, engineering geeks and test dorks are awesome! It does seem the baseline test tire is some form of "winter" tire, though.

https://mcsdocs.astm.org/committee-documents/2019_04_10_E1136 to F2493 transition for ASTMF1805.pdf

Edit#2: It's a P225/60-R16 Uniroyal Tiger Paw SRTT. They say it's very expensive and not very good!

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