My KOH Bronco ride Mega Feedback Report and new information gleaned

[bytheway]

@broncosor so what was your final verdict on 33/35s? That truck seemed like it did damn well on 33s with 4.46s. Might have changed my mind based on the type of wheeling I plan to do.

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[Dads_bronze_bronco]

@broncosor thanks for this. Wasn’t sure whether to choose wow or love for the emoji.

I have been scaling images of Badlands 33’s and Sasquatches for a while and so having an actual measurement to prove what I think I am finding is awesome. Finally someone pulls a tape! I agree weight will probably have something to do with it, but as you said a Wildtrak doesn’t have the steel bumpers and plates that a 33” Badlands has. (If anyone is out there, it would be cool if we had a measurement off that overland concept too, since that is the rig that is causing such confusion.)

I am now certain what I want, except knowing what the 2022 colors are. Roof changes are a little concerning too if you’re hoping to pull the trigger now and swap out for a white one at some point in the future. (I figure if the two door starts coming with a soft top standard, we’ll be able to sell the MIC and buy a paintable mod top.)

 

[jaruss01]

I don't believe the roof rack thing for a second. If it's a center of gravity issue how does it change with simply where bolt placement is? If this was a known issue and Bronco is several months out from production how has it not already been rectified? I call bullshit.

I believe it. Esteban himself said in a video interview that if Sasquatch guys want a roof rack they should wait to get a 2022.

If it were as simple as re-engineering the roof rack, then it would have been fixed by now. But it sounds like the fix resides in the roof, and webasto needs to run a second mold for 2022 and it takes time. If anything this could be another reason why webasto R&D was all messed up and they had delays. They could have been spending time trying to fix this, and had to scrap the idea, and focus on the rollout.

Honestly when test driving a raptor for ride height purposes, as I was driving along that high up, towering over everyone, I kept thinking wow, a cargo box this high...bolted to a plastic shell...that’s bolted to the car (at the mid section)! It sounded absolutely preposterous and would make me very uncomfortable doing that with a loaded Sasquatch with kids in the back going 80 on the highway. So I get the problem at hand and that it needs some additional engineering magic. It actually made me think that I don’t even want to put a cargo box on a Sasquatch even if Ford allowed me. It’s what sealed the deal of even choosing the Sasquatch. I came to terms that I do not want to put a cargo box up there anyway, so if Ford doesn’t want to sell a rack on a 2021 Sasquatch, fine by me. I’ll make due with the cargo area provided inside the car.

 

[broadicustomworks]

I don't believe the roof rack thing for a second. If it's a center of gravity issue how does it change with simply where bolt placement is? If this was a known issue and Bronco is several months out from production how has it not already been rectified? I call bullshit.

Personally I feel moving a bolt/mount location is not going to affect a CG issue. I deal with CG daily in a very specific trade. You can move lift points on an item and change the way it lifts/tilts to adjust CG. OR you redistribute mass.
But a fixed point/mount on a static plane does not.
My totally personal opinion (and could very well be wrong) is that they used the CG term out of context a bit and it's more than likely a static load/flexing of the rack issue.
I mean, look at it. It goes the length of a 4 door and mounts at the very front and close to the very rear with no lateral stability or support in between (lengthwise).
To prevent it from sagging or even bouncing up and down (which could change the CG if a "heavy load" was placed on it and was moving around), you would have to have some hellacious rack materials. And that would add tremendous weight (I guess technically ALSO affecting CG, as you get more top-heavy).
I'd be really curious to see the design change from '21 to '22. Potentially if you moved that rear mount forward to the extreme front of the cube and added a rear mount...who knows.

 

[jaruss01]

@broncosor

thanks for all the feedback. Did you have a good look at the cargo area of the 4 door? Or have any photos? Curious how roomy it is for road trips. I think we were estimating around 33” deep so really shallow. Maybe 8” shallower than almost every other midsized suv. I think it makes up for it in height/stackability. But curious what your take was in person.

 

[pharden]

You can go see Rapid Red today. It is a currently offered color for Explorers (and presumably other Ford vehicles). This is my Explorer ST...definitely more of a Candy Apple Red.

I've had a couple of Fords in this color and when its clean and in the sun it's amazing!

 

[Ocnorb]

Crash bars
The badlands on 33 had the crash bar in front and behind of the front wheels, but the Wildtrak didn’t. It looks like it’s removable and it also looks like they would accommodate the 35 ok. Not sure why they removed them and if it will come with it from the factory or not.

What exactly are "crash bars"? First time I've heard of them, can't figure out what these are supposed to be.

Our driver tested both the 2.3 and 2.7. Said he actually felt little difference in power and 2.3 is more than capable.

I'd caution be anyone reading to take this as the final word. We don't know what gearings the Broncos were equipped with that this driver drove with, which could make a big difference in feel and acceleration. In either case, I'm looking forward to more reports on comparing the two.

I do believe when Broncos are out in the streets and people and their friends try it off road Jeep will have a hard time selling that vehicle.

Sorry, but no. Jeep is not going to have a hard time selling Wranglers because the Bronco is out. They still have their diehard fans that are scoffing at the Bronco even if it is a superior vehicle.

 

[FTBronco9]

Didn’t read all 8 pages, so sorry if this was asked. So you said the Wildtrak didn’t have the steel skid plates. Did it have any skid plates or were they just thinner or maybe aluminum? Cause that’ll change my order if it doesn’t have any. Currently I ordered the front mod bumper with the front steel bash plate. Only because I figured it came with some skid plates under the body.

 

[pan-y-cerveza]

Personally I feel moving a bolt/mount location is not going to affect a CG issue. I deal with CG daily in a very specific trade. You can move lift points on an item and change the way it lifts/tilts to adjust CG. OR you redistribute mass.
But a fixed point/mount on a static plane does not.
My totally personal opinion (and could very well be wrong) is that they used the CG term out of context a bit and it's more than likely a static load/flexing of the rack issue.
I mean, look at it. It goes the length of a 4 door and mounts at the very front and close to the very rear with no lateral stability or support in between (lengthwise).
To prevent it from sagging or even bouncing up and down (which could change the CG if a "heavy load" was placed on it and was moving around), you would have to have some hellacious rack materials. And that would add tremendous weight (I guess technically ALSO affecting CG, as you get more top-heavy).
I'd be really curious to see the design change from '21 to '22. Potentially if you moved that rear mount forward to the extreme front of the cube and added a rear mount...who knows.

This is the only way moving some roof rack bolts will change the CG.

Seemed to me that when they first said they were changing the roof/rack design for 22 it was load capacity thing, not a CG thing.

 

[Hoofnmouth]

The first model year woes begin with the roof rack debacle .

 

[North7]

Roof rack on squatch
I asked multiple people at the booth and It’s a center of gravity issue. Ford is redesigning the actual roof for 2022 with different bolt placement for the new roof rack.

I don't believe the roof rack thing for a second. If it's a center of gravity issue how does it change with simply where bolt placement is? If this was a known issue and Bronco is several months out from production how has it not already been rectified? I call bullshit.

Personally I feel moving a bolt/mount location is not going to affect a CG issue. I deal with CG daily in a very specific trade. You can move lift points on an item and change the way it lifts/tilts to adjust CG. OR you redistribute mass.

I agree with @Compta38 and @broadicustomworks this is not a CG, or center of gravity issue of the Bronco itself. The Ford engineers would have been able to fully model the Bronco CG and determine safe loads and rollover resistance within their 3D modeling design software.

Perhaps @broncosor was told by "multiple people at the booth" that It’s a center of gravity issue as this was the pre planned coordinated message Ford wants to put out. Typically booth people are not always technical and sometimes Engineering has to explain the message in simple to understand marketing language to them before they talk with the public.

We may be dealing with a "Center of Gravity" issue of the hardtop itself, not the Bronco. If cargo bar bolt placement was found out to be less than ideal during testing this may explain why there was one report several months ago here on the forum that a roof panel had flown off the Bronco hardtop at speed. If true, perhaps the hardtop cracked or flexed at speed and is contributing to the needed redesign.

If this is the case, you can understand why Ford does not want the liability of selling cargo bars for the 2021 hardtop if it leads to cracked hardtops and flying roof panels.

Here are some examples of Jeep hardtop cracks.

 

[broadicustomworks]

This is the only way moving some roof rack bolts will change the CG.

Seemed to me that when they first said they were changing the roof/rack design for 22 it was load capacity thing, not a CG thing.

Yep. That's kinda what I was aiming at. I think a heavy load up there, or even a decent one, could make the rack bounce up and down a bit, maybe even contacting the top. At least show some sag. And that working on the joints and seams could cause fatigue and failure..
It's kind of like a forklift triangle of stability diagram.
The higher you lift a load the less lateral stability you have front-to-back and side-to -side.
I've actually seen them topple forward and more than once the rear steering wheels come up, giving you no control.
with a top-heavy large profile vehicle like the Bronc, I see perfectly where it is cool to have a rack the way it is currently, but could pose some issues with the NTSB.
But in real life people put all kinds of racks and stuff up top on a gamut of vehicles that shouldn't have it. Heck, I've done it myself.
2 100 lb kayaks on J bars on top of a rack on a lifted Expy with 35's completely changes the handling of the vehicle. Trust me I know.
And an Expy is planted slightly firmer than the Bronc with the wheelbase and ride height (factory spec anyway without the lift).

 

[Ksjrb03]

I disagree. The body of the wrangler curves in from the midsection forward. That means there is less shoulder width for the front row, and the body becomes even narrower at the dash. There is very little room between the steering wheel and the drivers window. The bronco will feel much roomier width wise in the front row

Well your in for a major disappointment if your expecting the Bronco interior to feel any bigger than a wrangler, especially width. The seats are more comfortable though, so that’s a win.

 

[killaz05]

I don't think it is a hard top issue so much since you can get the roof rack with the hard top non-sasquatch. I am sure it you can add a roof rack later on or the aftermarket will help. I am sure there will be a way to fit a 22MY rack on a 21MY. Someone will do it! haha

 

[ZackDanger]

What exactly are "crash bars"? First time I've heard of them, can't figure out what these are supposed to be.

They are two short bars on each side, fore and aft of the front wheels, that extend perpendicularly from the frame. They are bolted in. There are some threads about whether they interfere with larger tires, and not all vehicles we’ve seen have them in place.

Yep. That's kinda what I was aiming at. I think a heavy load up there, or even a decent one, could make the rack bounce up and down a bit, maybe even contacting the top. At least show some sag. And that working on the joints and seams could cause fatigue and failure..
It's kind of like a forklift triangle of stability diagram.
The higher you lift a load the less lateral stability you have front-to-back and side-to -side.
I've actually seen them topple forward and more than once the rear steering wheels come up, giving you no control.
with a top-heavy large profile vehicle like the Bronc, I see perfectly where it is cool to have a rack the way it is currently, but could pose some issues with the NTSB.
But in real life people put all kinds of racks and stuff up top on a gamut of vehicles that shouldn't have it. Heck, I've done it myself.
2 100 lb kayaks on J bars on top of a rack on a lifted Expy with 35's completely changes the handling of the vehicle. Trust me I know.
And an Expy is planted slightly firmer than the Bronc with the wheelbase and ride height (factory spec anyway without the lift).

The front of the rack bolts to the windshield frame. The rear of the rack looks to clamp onto the hard shell... not bolt to it.

My wild speculation here that this could be part of the problem... seems to be low hanging fruit for something that would need to be reconfigured.

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