The great Sasq Mystery: rip-off or reasonable - BL

[Used2jeep]

Rick Astley has famously espoused the worst-case scenario for the lights.

We have confirmed that the rear lights *do not* contain the BLISS equipment, so that cost is not part of the equation.

We have heard from our people on the inside that they standard and signature lighting has different harnesses... but we have no idea how different or what it would take to swap out the style of lights.

The lights themselves will certainly be pricey, but if you are swapping them with another Bronco owner, the wiring is the only concern.

Basically, it could be pricey... it could be cheap... but it has definitely not been determined. We just wont know until we know.

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[DrStrange]

I did not read all 5 pages, so hopefully no one else has done this type of itemization
If they did, maybe I will add a Poll about cupholders.

SAS = $2495 on a Badlands if you choose the 2.7L with 10speed Auto
Upgraded Non SAS rims $995
Price difference
$2495 - $995 = $1500
Sticking with KO2s on 35s + tax [6% in my state] $1691 for 5 tires
Price difference $1500 - $1691 = -$191
This may or may not include mounting and balancing depending on your local tire shop matching TireRack's pricing.
Lets say it doesn't and they charge $25/tire = $125
-$191 - $125 = -$316

SAS guarantees the 35s will fit and the offset on the rims guarantee no loss of turning radius.
Going aftermarket may require a slight spacer lift, spacers and if you can not do that yourself, the labor to install it.
Cost = $Undetermined

SAS = $4090 on a Badlands if you keep the 2.3L as it forces you to the 10speed Auto.
To be fair, I will calculate this comparison.
If you actually want the Auto, then the above calculation is a better comparison.

Upgraded Non SAS rims $995
Price difference
$4090 - $995 = $3095
Sticking with KO2s on 35s + tax [6% in my state] $1691 for 5 tires
Price difference $3095 - $1691 = $1404
This may or may not include mounting and balancing depending on your local tire shop matching TireRack's pricing.
Lets say it doesn't and they charge $25/tire = $125
$1404 - $125 = $1279

SAS guarantees the 35s will fit and the offset on the rims guarantee no loss of turning radius.
Going aftermarket may require a slight spacer lift, spacers and if you can not do that yourself, the labor to install it.
Cost = $Undetermined

I did not include the gearing cost because the Manual will have 4.7 and a killer crawl ratio.
The auto will have 4.46 which will be fine on the street and the auto will compensate offroad.

So no opinion from me in this reply,
Just some numbers to ponder

If you want a manual trans BL, you can get a set of 5 LT285/75R17 for about ~$1400 and have 34" tires the same width as the stock 33" tires. I figure this is the cheapest path to mansquatch on a 2021 bronco.

 

[timhood]

3) Does 4.7 really matter for 33” vs 35” for performance with how I’m going to use my Bronco?

This one's easy to answer, and the answer is "no". Why? Because, if you are really, really looking for maximum crawl ratio, you aren't getting the auto. And if you aren't getting the auto, you're getting the 4.7 already. Specifically, in the auto, you're looking at a difference of 64.14 vs. 67.60 crawl ratios. Not much, and certainly nowhere near the manual's 95:1.

Now, if you just want big tires for the look, then you are really only concerned with whether you have enough power and gear ratio to push the bigger tires. The answer here is "yes," even with the base 4 cylinder, and especially with the upgraded V6. At normal driving RPMs, you are looking at maybe 150 RPM difference between the 4.46 and 4.70 on 315/70/17 tires. 70mph in 10th is about 100 RPMs. In 7th, it's about 150.

 

[PDiddy]

The costs always add up!

Will be interesting to see if re-gearing a Bronco ends up costing a lot more considering those Jeep parts have been available for quite a while and the available customer base is so vast. For Bronco most of this stuff has to be developed, made and customers found.

Anyway, on topic for the elephant in the room: If you're going 2.3 MT, you already get the 4.7 gearing so the costs to shove and tack weld a few Sacagawea dollars between springs, tires and steelies will have you so far under the ~$4,090 factory upgrade cost (including mandatory automatic transmission) it's a non-issue to order non-squatch now and simply upgrade your way into 35" tires at a cost savings.

Regear cost should be the same cost in the rear, because it is a Dana 44 axle and the gears are the same ones you would find in a Wranger. The front depends, because you have two different diff housing sizes. I am not sure what the gear options are for the M190 diffs or the M210. Also, the cost of regearing an IFS is more, due to the extra labor involved. I think you have to fully pull the diff out of the truck to get to it. I could be wrong.

I don't know if you have to regear anyways if you go to 35s. The Rubicon comes with 4:10s and pulls 35s no problem. The bronco comes with a 4:46 and both engine options produce more torque. So you could easily get by without regearing or do it at a later time. Most wrangler owners don't regear Rubicons, when going to 35s. I did because I tow with my Gladiator, and I wanted to gain some torque with a regear. The automatic transmissions on the Bronco and Wrangler, make regearing not as important as with manual transmissions.

I forgot about the auto trans being included in the Sas price. If you are planning to go auto anyways, the Sas makes even more sense. If not, it makes a lot less sense.

 

[jay-rod427]

This one's easy to answer, and the answer is "no". Why? Because, if you are really, really looking for maximum crawl ratio, you aren't getting the auto. And if you aren't getting the auto, you're getting the 4.7 already. Specifically, in the auto, you're looking at a difference of 64.14 vs. 67.60 crawl ratios. Not much, and certainly nowhere near the manual's 95:1.

Now, if you just want big tires for the look, then you are really only concerned with whether you have enough power and gear ratio to push the bigger tires. The answer here is "yes," even with the base 4 cylinder, and especially with the upgraded V6. At normal driving RPMs, you are looking at maybe 150 RPM difference between the 4.46 and 4.70 on 315/70/17 tires. 70mph in 10th is about 100 RPMs. In 7th, it's about 150.

Not particularly true with regards to the auto. You're not giving any calculation for torque converter slip. Those crawl ratios assume 1:1 engine output like a manual trans. "crawl ratio" is all about engine rpm to driveline rpm and torque multiplication. Auto torque converter is already a massive torque multiplier before the power ever even gets to the gear reducers in the trans, transfer case, and then further reduction at the axles.

Your case at 70mph is spot on tho once the converter is locked.

 

[ssolypop]

Rip-off probably just like package to package Bronco.
Besides. Most who get SAS won’t even use it other than to show it off on the road. Wanna bet?

I'll take that bet. Anyone who drives their Bronco with Sas is using their Sas!!! lol

 

[ssolypop]

You build what suits you...

Amen brother! For me, I want to buy from the the factory with the options I may or may not use but want. Rather have capability and not use it than need it and not have it. Hell with global warming we all need more capability with these floods, hurricanes and snow storms right?!?

 

[Rick Astley]

Regear cost should be the same cost in the rear, because it is a Dana 44 axle and the gears are the same ones you would find in a Wranger. The front depends, because you have two different diff housing sizes. I am not sure what the gear options are for the M190 diffs or the M210. Also, the cost of regearing an IFS is more, due to the extra labor involved. I think you have to fully pull the diff out of the truck to get to it. I could be wrong.

I don't know if you have to regear anyways if you go to 35s. The Rubicon comes with 4:10s and pulls 35s no problem. The bronco comes with a 4:46 and both engine options produce more torque. So you could easily get by without regearing or do it at a later time. Most wrangler owners don't regear Rubicons, when going to 35s. I did because I tow with my Gladiator, and I wanted to gain some torque with a regear. The automatic transmissions on the Bronco and Wrangler, make regearing not as important as with manual transmissions.

I forgot about the auto trans being included in the Sas price. If you are planning to go auto anyways, the Sas makes even more sense. If not, it makes a lot less sense.

If you're trying to re-gear with the 190 I just wonder how much more abuse you're trying to throw at that little gear. The 210 upgrade would be a prudent first move. But people will throw money at anything they have!

You're right, I had forgotten that the Dana 44 was carried over, so that will solve half the equation. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

As a 2.3/MT/Badlands person i've not followed all these re-gear and sasquatch threads nearly as close as others have. The costs rise so quickly that to this day it still catches me off guard when people talk about these as $50-55-60K rigs. It just seems like what is really happening to go 2.7/AT/Badlands/Squatch is essentially about a $7K commitment for 35" tires and not having to shift gears. For $2K anybody running 2.3/MT/Badlands will have 35" tires and be done with it.

 

[PDiddy]

If you're trying to re-gear with the 190 I just wonder how much more abuse you're trying to throw at that little gear. The 210 upgrade would be a prudent first move. But people will throw money at anything they have!

You're right, I had forgotten that the Dana 44 was carried over, so that will solve half the equation. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

As a 2.3/MT/Badlands person i've not followed all these re-gear and sasquatch threads nearly as close as others have. The costs rise so quickly that to this day it still catches me off guard when people talk about these as $50-55-60K rigs. It just seems like what is really happening to go 2.7/AT/Badlands/Squatch is essentially about a $7K commitment for 35" tires and not having to shift gears. For $2K anybody running 2.3/MT/Badlands will have 35" tires and be done with it.

I agree. I think you can just throw on 35s to your setup and go. The only thing you may need are bump stops to prevent tire contacting the wheel wells at full stuff. But that is a really cheap, do it yourself, mod. The M190 might be the only weak point, but I don't really have any experience with how it does with 35s. If it is equivalent to a Dana 35, then it will be a weak point for sure with 35s.

 

[Rednek]

I wonder if the sas lift is achieved the same way you can lift a raptor by indexing the lower spring seat snapring up one notch thus leveling the front?(i've done lots of these)

 

[Coldsmoke]

I ordered NON Sasquatch BL. I don't like the wheels, or the wide tires. Gearing is negligible and no real effect on anything especially with A10/2.7. 10mm "lift" that may or may not be true. Sorry 3/8" lift is not the deal breaker between factory 33", or 35" tire. Like someone mentioned I will go to a 285/75/17 tire for a small bump in height without the extra width.

I just couldn't justify $2,300 for wheels and tires I don't like, and gears that won't make a real world difference.

Icing on the cake may be earlier delivery since soooooo many others want the Sasquatch.

What he said.

 

[Cased]

The 190 ring gear is welded to carrier from what I've read so no bueno on a " easy gear chage "

From reading also it has been said that all diffs. with out the locker are welded on ring gear

Ymmv

 

[Brongo]

This comment is mainly related to the ongoing debate about whether one should Sasq on Badlands or not - and what value doing so actually brings.

I find Fords explanation of Sasq when adding to BL very deceiving. It says it adds high clearance fenders, SAS suspension, etc. But many of these it says it adds already come stock on the BL.

There appears to be only two suspension options on the Bronco: regular and the bilstein shocks. So, when you add the Sas onto BL, really all you get are the wheels, fender flares that protrude more, and the 4.7 gears.

From where I stand, on a BL trim, one would be better purchasing these elements aftermarket. One, you save in the long run by avoiding interest charges and two you get exactly what you want (wheels wise). Lets also not discount the fact Bilstein has already said they are going to sell a better aftermarket option; moreover, like Jeep - you can get a 2.5 lift and often still maintain a full factory warranty.

So 35" tires will fit right on a BL with it's factory height? If so, you make a good point. But wheels and tires are about the price of Squatch on BL aren't they?

 

[Tonka Bronka]

All the talk about re-gearing and such, I wish to add this wrinkle. I am staying with the manual on the BL with no squatch, so I still get the 4.7 gears. I ordered the optional beadlock capable wheels and plan on rolling on the KO2's until time for replacement, then, I'll look at 35's. Seeing as I already get 4.7 gears, in this situation, is SAS really worth it?

The funny thing is all the people crying for a manual sasquatch. A manual Badlands is pretty much just that. Add the tires and wheels of your choice.

 

[Aman]

The funny thing is all the people crying for a manual sasquatch. A manual Badlands is pretty much just that. Add the tires and wheels of your choice.

I would like to see some hard proof before I take your word for it. We've been discussing this topic for months and I have yet to see anything definitive.

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