Ford has new painted MOD top supplier for Bronco after Webasto loses contract

[lobbs611]

Curious if Ford owns the tooling for the Mod Top or Webasto. If Ford owns it, you wouldn't necessarily have to start from scratch with a new supplier. Could shave some time from development and give them more time to work out kinks.

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[rdass623]

I don't see why Ford can't just build these themselves. To AZshot's point, during WWII, Ford was able to drop everything and produce 87,000 aircraft, with finished planes rolling off assembly lines in 6 months. But plastic roofs? No way that's too hard. Thank god B-17s didn't need plastic roofs or we'd be speaking german.

there are plenty of reasons to not self produce things like the tops. the capital investment to build the factory. this is taxed as property. the machinery to produce is also taxed.

taxes are brutal on the large corporations. when i used to own a bar, i was taxed a property tax, like on a home, on the furniture, the liquor i was selling (in addition to the sales tax paid at the time of purchase). the structure i was operating out of. the refrigeration equipment... even the money kept on hand for banks for the cash register. i would need to pay an annual property tax on all of these assets.

that is one reason i can think of which would cause a corporation to consider farming out the production.

also there will probably be a bunch of EPA regulations in the production of the tops which corporate did not want to deal with...

just my $ 0.02

 

[moisea]

Ford, I hope this 2023 availability is an under promise with a possibility of a 2022 over deliver.
Also, with all the Broncos out there, can one of the aftermarket folks not come up with modular too in record time and meet some of the demand? Crisis makes makes great people and great companies. Moderna stepped up during Covid-19 and provided a vaccine in record time, can some company out there step up and respond to this shortage and make a name for themselves?!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

OK...so we know For-Basto is no longer a couple...at least for the MODs. But, do we know 'who' told 'who' to take a flying leap? Not at all clear to me.

My MIC guess is Ford's unreasonable requirements for weight & cost doomed that puppy from the get-go. And guess what...the MOD top has a new fabricator - but its brought to you by the very same engineering/design team that brought you the MIC

This has become a MAJOR concern of mine also.
Composite tops have been IN SERVICE for DECADES and are still functional.

This top did not make it three weeks!!!

So now we are expected to believe that they will make an adjustment over night that will churn out a top that has a 30/50+ year , all weather life span?

How the hell does a fuck up this big happen?
Think about it ... 30 years vs 3 weeks.

The honey comb core, mud/wood composite hornets nest outside has held up better than that.

What an embarassment for both companies.

 

[rdass623]

OK...so we know For-Basto is no longer a couple...at least for the MODs. But, do we know 'who' told 'who' to take a flying leap? Not at all clear to me.

My MIC guess is Ford's unreasonable requirements for weight & cost doomed that puppy from the get-go. And guess what...the MOD top has a new fabricator - but its brought to you by the very same engineering/design team that brought you the MIC

the weight is part of federal mandates from the EPA and similar govt agencies... the honeycomb structure is extremely strong and light and have been used in aviation applications for well over 40 years...

 

[Bronc-O]

Ford, I hope this 2023 availability is an under promise with a possibility of a 2022 over deliver.
Also, with all the Broncos out there, can one of the aftermarket folks not come up with modular too in record time and meet some of the demand? Crisis makes makes great people and great companies. Moderna stepped up during Covid-19 and provided a vaccine in record time, can some company out there step up and respond to this shortage and make a name for themselves?!

They would need the tooling and that isn't cheap.

 

[Razorbak86]

Curious if Ford owns the tooling for the Mod Top or Webasto. If Ford owns it, you wouldn't necessarily have to start from scratch with a new supplier. Could shave some time from development and give them more time to work out kinks.

Ford owns the tooling.

 

[Tricky Dick]

I'm happy to get a crappy MIC top now rather than not having a Bronco, but if the pricing isn't too brutal I could see treating myself to one of these in 3-5 years - assuming they're backwards compatible.

 

[20Bronco21]

Just my $0.02 here, but could this be Jack Roush bringing American Sunroof Corp. back from hibernation. Jack bough the IP in 2016 when ASC ceased operation. Who is more Ford friendly and Ford capable than Jack Roush?

 

[VictoryLights]

Instead of switching suppliers, how about working on a redesign?

 

[lakesinai]

What’s SMC?

Its actually pretty fascinating, the various processes for the MIC vs the MOD tops. From what others have said, the SMC process for the MOD tops is both stronger and heavier than the MIC tops, but must be painted. It is the process currently used on the Jeep tops.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheet_moulding_compound
The MIC top is a different process, lighter in weight, color molded in.

 

[JB1901]

there are plenty of reasons to not self produce things like the tops. the capital investment to build the factory. this is taxed as property. the machinery to produce is also taxed.

Not quite. Buildings may have a 39 year depreciation but machinery definitely doesn't. Equipment to make products like this or the ancillary equipment can be depreciated immediately via Section 179. Equipment such as forklifts, CNC machines, air compressors, etc. R&D can also be wrote off. There are caps on Section 179 but for the average small business it's incredibly lucrative from a short term tax liability standpoint. Regardless, the business who buys a CNC machine will be able to depreciate the asset and won't be paying property taxes on it like say a building. Equipment doesn't last as long as a business so it can get depreciated significantly faster.

 

[BroncoBuckaroo]

2023 might be a nightmare 2. New supplier may have same issues as Webasto as this will be the first year ever in a new factory that the MOD top is produced.

might be a company that already makes tops for Jeep

 

[Thed]

might be a company that already makes tops for Jeep

You mean Webasto? We already tried that one...

 

[elnorte]

So if the contract was just signed, what’s a realistic time frame for another company to actually start producing them in quantity?

6-9 months if they have a factory already. Just a guess but pulling from experience in dealing with other contract-type stuff.

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