2.7L w/ manual trans (is Ford listening?)

[kodiakisland]

My guess is the number of manuals sold will go down drastically after the first year and continue to be a small percentage of units sold. I think Ford knows that and is probably not going to expend the time and effort on a money losing venture.

Those of us ordering now who must have the manual are in the minority, and it's not like we are going to buy another one next year or the year after.

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[Bronco_Mando]

Ford, because it’s all about the money, why don’t you at least offer the manual mated to the 2.7L V6 in the badlands, the trim intended for rock crawling?

 

[DrewBronc21]

Ford, because it’s all about the money, why don’t you at least offer the manual mated to the 2.7L V6 in the badlands, the trim intended for rock crawling?

sounds great to me since I reserved a Badlands?

 

[The Pope]

I haven't reserved a 2021 Bronco due to there not being an MT option for the 2.7L and the 2.3L not having Direct AND Port Injection. I feel that Direct & Port Injection will happen on the 2.3L before a MT will be mated to the 2.7L, well directly from FoMoCo that is.

 

[Bybotie]

Getrag transmissions are complete garbage, careful what you wish for.

 

[Squatch]

I think manual with Sasquatch will happen, as Ford is relooking that, but to me that’s useless unless they also offer it on the 2.7. I think Ford misread the outrage about the stick to be primarily focused on Sasquatch and not on the lack of allowing it with the 2.7.

Sasquatch with a manual is a matter of simply allowing themselves to put the pieces that are already going onto similar Broncos on and giving it the right speedometer calculations.

Putting the manual on the 2.7L requires engineering a new bellhousing and upgrading the internals of the manual which would mean they would have to upgrade the manuals put on 2.3L engines as well which adds a ton of cost which most complainers will really lose their mind about. "How tf did Ford put a manual on it that costs more than the automatic!?!?!? I'm canceling my orderzzzzz°°%&%!@!!!!!! Boycott Ford!!! SCREEEEEECH!"

Man-Squatch is easy, though.

 

[FirstOnRaceDay]

I think people are forgetting. Not only would ford have to RND a completely new drive train for the manual with the 2.7. cant just slap it in there and not tune the motor and adjust everything.

Also each drive train MUST be tested by EPA and IIHS. and that’s for 2 door and 4 door. So A LOT more testing (which is NOT cheap at all!)

all that up front cost and effort for what? 2,000 units a year After the first year for the 2.7. (<15,000 for Bronco manual total)

and that’s based on current take rates. Which is dropping like a ROCK year over year.

for 2019 More EVs were sold in the USA than Manual cars. Let that sink in.

 

[Cookieck]

I think people are forgetting. Not only would ford have to RND a completely new drive train for the manual with the 2.7. cant just slap it in there and not tune the motor and adjust everything.

Also each drive train MUST be tested by EPA and IIHS. and that’s for 2 door and 4 door. So A LOT more testing (which is NOT cheap at all!)

all that up front cost and effort for what? 2,000 units a year After the first year for the 2.7. (<15,000 for Bronco manual total)

and that’s based on current take rates. Which is dropping like a ROCK year over year.

for 2019 More EVs were sold in the USA than Manual cars. Let that sink in.

At this point yes there's a lot more involved. But they did RND a drivetrain to put a 7 speed manual with the 2.3l. They went thru the trouble and cost, and they knew they were putting 2 engines in the bronco as they were doing the RND for that at the same time. So if they were already putting money into a manual setup, why not at the same time make it easier for it to work with both engines? Or if only picking one engine, why not pick the larger engine to make a manual for? Sure it was likely easier/cheaper to do it for the 2.3. But they went thru the hassle and spent the time/money and then shifted sales away from the manual before even producing it by making people choose between the engine they want or the manual transmission they want.

 

[jbf19]

I think manual with Sasquatch will happen, as Ford is relooking that, but to me that’s useless unless they also offer it on the 2.7. I think Ford misread the outrage about the stick to be primarily focused on Sasquatch and not on the lack of allowing it with the 2.7.

I think you're exactly right. And Ford is exactly wrong.

 

[stickshifter]

At this point yes there's a lot more involved. But they did RND a drivetrain to put a 7 speed manual with the 2.3l. They went thru the trouble and cost, and they knew they were putting 2 engines in the bronco as they were doing the RND for that at the same time. So if they were already putting money into a manual setup, why not at the same time make it easier for it to work with both engines? Or if only picking one engine, why not pick the larger engine to make a manual for? Sure it was likely easier/cheaper to do it for the 2.3. But they went thru the hassle and spent the time/money and then shifted sales away from the manual before even producing it by making people choose between the engine they want or the manual transmission they want.

I couldn't agree more!

Its true that manual sales are very low, but Ford went ahead anyway and put a MT in the Bronco (so we are not talking about convincing Ford to offer a MT). Why go to that trouble, and engage in the additional manufacturing cost, and instead of using a slightly more robust MT, they use the Getrag 7-speed that maxs out at 400 lb./ft. of torque? It would have cost marginally more to use a more robust MT instead - one that could have been used with both the 2.3 and the 2.7. The increased cost (i.e. the difference in cost between the Getrag and some other MT) would not have been that much. So why bother with a MT that can only be paired with the 2.3? It doesn't make sense to me. Ford's options were not limited to Getrag. There are robust MTs already in existence that can handle more torque than the 2.7 puts down. Here is just one example of a burly MT designed for high torque in 4x4 vehicles:
https://www.motorator.com/blog/general-automotive/rsg-tranzilla-tremec-6-speed-conversion/

 

[DrewBronc21]

I couldn't agree more!

Its true that manual sales are very low, but Ford went ahead anyway and put a MT in the Bronco (so we are not talking about convincing Ford to offer a MT). Why go to that trouble, and engage in the additional manufacturing cost, and instead of using a slightly more robust MT, they use the Getrag 7-speed that maxs out at 400 lb./ft. of torque? It would have cost marginally more to use a more robust MT instead - one that could have been used with both the 2.3 and the 2.7. The increased cost (i.e. the difference in cost between the Getrag and some other MT) would not have been that much. So why bother with a MT that can only be paired with the 2.3? It doesn't make sense to me. Ford's options were not limited to Getrag. There are robust MTs already in existence that can handle more torque than the 2.7 puts down. Here is just one example of a burly MT designed for high torque in 4x4 vehicles:
https://www.motorator.com/blog/general-automotive/rsg-tranzilla-tremec-6-speed-conversion/

isn’t the 7MTI550's torque rating is scalable up to 800Nm (590ft-lb)? That’s what it says in the documentation. Should be plenty to handle the 2.7. I guess we will find out when people start modding the crap out of the 2.3.

 

[FirstOnRaceDay]

I couldn't agree more!

Its true that manual sales are very low, but Ford went ahead anyway and put a MT in the Bronco (so we are not talking about convincing Ford to offer a MT). Why go to that trouble, and engage in the additional manufacturing cost, and instead of using a slightly more robust MT, they use the Getrag 7-speed that maxs out at 400 lb./ft. of torque? It would have cost marginally more to use a more robust MT instead - one that could have been used with both the 2.3 and the 2.7. The increased cost (i.e. the difference in cost between the Getrag and some other MT) would not have been that much. So why bother with a MT that can only be paired with the 2.3? It doesn't make sense to me. Ford's options were not limited to Getrag. There are robust MTs already in existence that can handle more torque than the 2.7 puts down. Here is just one example of a burly MT designed for high torque in 4x4 vehicles:
https://www.motorator.com/blog/general-automotive/rsg-tranzilla-tremec-6-speed-conversion/

“Close range transmission”
The 7 speed ford has. Is 6.615 range excluding the crawler. 10.154 range with the crawler.

Close range means 5.0 range or smaller. Meaning sure you’ll get the low gears but likely no OD. Meaning bad high way milage. Meaning won’t pass EPA standards.

It’s not just about “engineering” a transmission to handle the power. (Which any additional cost would be passed on to customer). It’s also about passing EPA testing. Which cost a lot of money. Roughly $20,000 EACH test.

Add all that up. Now ford would have to charge MORE for a manual than an automatic transmission for the 2.7. Cutting down the take rate even more.

All and all it’s just not worth fords time

Just like to point out. You CANNOT get a light truck or any SUV with a manual with over 300lbft in the USA. Aside from the bronco.
Bronco 310lbft
Frontier 281lbft (special order only may be gone for next generation)
Wrangler/ Gladiator 260lbft
Tacoma 265lbft
Crosstreck 176lbft

That’s all you can get if you don’t want a sedan/coupe manual in USA.

 

[FirstOnRaceDay]

isn’t the 7MTI550's torque rating is scalable up to 800Nm (590ft-lb)? That’s what it says in the documentation. Should be plenty to handle the 2.7. I guess we will find out when people start modding the crap out of the 2.3.

“Scaleable “ meaning of you add the right parts to it can be that high. I believe standard was around 400lbft

 

[Jp215]

Hey all hate to be the bearer of bad news but I was looking around at a bronco faq for dealerships and one of the questions was about the manual trans. The question is. “Is the manual transmission available on the 2.7 eb? Will it be available later?” The response listed from ford was “No, we have specifically designed the bronco 7 speed manual for the 2.3 liter eco boost engine”. Now ford doesn’t explicitly answer the question about will it in the future but after reading that, and considering the new gt500 is automatic, I wouldn’t hold out hope for manual in the 2.7

 

[Elvis]

Just like to point out. You CANNOT get a light truck or any SUV with a manual with over 300lbft in the USA. Aside from the bronco.

Bronco 310lbft
Frontier 281lbft (special order only may be gone for next generation)
Wrangler/ Gladiator 260lbft
Tacoma 265lbft
Crosstreck 176lbft

That’s all you can get if you don’t want a sedan/coupe manual in USA.

Ok this is a very interesting point, and one that I've not heard made before. So are you saying that there are some sort of US regulations that require manufacturers like Ford to stay below the "300lbft" limit you mention? If that's the case it would appear that there is essentially no possible way to assume that Ford would even have the capability (based on whatever regulations you are referring to) to offer the manual transmission mated up to the 2.7L V6 engine.

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