Anyone else reserve the Hummer EV SUV?

[BrentC]

Key REAL truths (I drove Volts for 6 years and I have studied this for over 10 years):
1. Batteries have at least the same lifespan as Internal Combustion Engines (~10 years+). My Volt batteries can also be used for another 10+ in a battery array to provide generator backup for houses.
2. Battery costs are going dramatically DOWN as technology is getting better. No different than what is happening on laptops. The Apple M1 has reduced the entire circuitboard to the size of 2-3 quarters all in one unit. It no longer needs a fan to cool, it is cheaper to produce. It requires less materials. The whole industry is moving this way.
3. Range is more than enough for 95%+ of use cases. Most people don't drive cross country constantly. They drive in a circuit that is within 50 miles of their home and they do not use their vehicle for 8 hour stretches, perfect for plugging in.
4. Big Oil gets exponentially more "tax breaks" ($60,000,000,000 per year) than EVs. If you really want to level the playing field, make oil companies pay for the damage they cause by delivering highly flammable, heavy toxic fuel to 40,000 gas stations, in perhaps the most inefficient and dangerous way imaginable.
5. The battery costs are the same or lower than ICE engine costs.
6. When I drove my Volt, I saved about $2500 in fuel per year. Almost no maintenance. Cost of ownership for an EV was far lower than an ICE vehicle. And you can lease them with rates so low they match conventional vehicles.
7. Are you the guy who called the Internet a "fad". Do you still have a palm pilot/blackberry/flip phone because the iPhone is a "fad"?

Well, I won’t debate you on your battery lifespan claims. My comments come from my studies (6 years) but not from ownership of an EV. Let’s say your lifespan claims are valid and move on.

As for cost, note that the EV market is approximately 2% of all vehicle sales at this time. To reach any sort of significant market penetration, millions more EVs must be built, meaning trillions more tons of dirt and rock has to be move and processed to source the elements needed for battery production. Chemistry is chemistry, and there is only so much technology can do unless someone discovers impossibilium.

Environmentalists hate mining, and when the fossil fuel focus loses steam they WILL focus on the impacts of mining. The amount of mining needs to jump by several orders of magnitude to meet this theoretical demand. And once the battery life ends (at whatever years lifespan you choose) they are done. There won’t be another round of turning the earth upside-down to replace the batteries consumed. I guess they can dump the waste back into the mine pits, but again, that gets you through one cycle of world conversion to battery power.

But demand will drive price up when supply gets tight, so while batteries may be relatively cheap now, I can’t see that price staying this way. Check out the price of lithium now vs. a year ago and see for yourself - the price has skyrocketed. Same with cobalt and many REEs.

You didn’t talk to the fire hazard of EVs and their unsuitability for underground parking - again, chemistry is chemistry and these batteries are volatile and cannot be extinguished once they ignite.

I won’t talk to your oil subsidy comment because you’ve consumed all you need to know about that topic from mainstream media and the matter is closed in your mind. But, every gallon of gas sold is heavily taxed, and a portion of these taxes is used for creation and maintenance of road infrastructure. Take those ICEs off the roads and you need to replace those taxes by taxing the users of the roads - the EVs. No more free ride.

I do not know how EVs are sustainable, hence I call them a fad. I don’t believe they can exist without subsidies and will remain a vehicle only suitable to the elite.

I am willing to bet your Volt is your second car. Many poor working stiffs can only afford one car, and EVs are not in their budget.

If EVs work for you, enjoy. You could lay off the personal attacks, however - I may respect your opinion more.

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[HummerEV3X]

...going all in on EVs at this point is not practical until the infrastructure is in place to support it.
...
Coal or Natural gas? Nuclear is out of the question.
...
Other alternate fuels (Hydrogen?) are still in development. May be other, better alternatives to electric out there.

I love a rumbling V8 as much as the next guy, so I'm right there with you on pumping the brakes on going all-in with EVs. But why is nuclear out of the question? Wouldn't that be a great compromise to either all coal/NG or all "renewables?"

As things stand, it's undeniable that coal and natural gas are powering the "clean" EV push. Not that I'm bothered by that, it's just a fact.

 

[PSUTE]

I love a rumbling V8 as much as the next guy, so I'm right there with you on pumping the brakes on going all-in with EVs. But why is nuclear out of the question? Wouldn't that be a great compromise to either all coal/NG or all "renewables?"

As things stand, it's undeniable that coal and natural gas are powering the "clean" EV push. Not that I'm bothered by that, it's just a fact.

NIMBY effect. No one wants them around, and disposal/recycling of the spent fuel rods is problematic to say the least, at this point....

 

[HummerEV3X]

NIMBY effect. No one wants them around, and disposal/recycling of the spent fuel rods is problematic to say the least, at this point....

True. I think a lot of it is total misunderstanding. Nuclear plants are seen as this ticking time bomb that will explode any second, but in reality, they're actually extremely safe in that regard. The waste, however, is problematic. I'm just saying that if the enviromentalists are so concerned about CO2 in the air, wouldn't you think they'd see nuclear as a viable alternative? No CO2, right?

Alternative energy is nowhere NEAR ready to cover for our current electricity needs, let alone our current needs plus millions of electron-hogging EVs. The climate change activists might want to consider that sometime.

 

[PSUTE]

The climate change activists might want to consider that sometime.

Agree 100%. Climate change activists have rich and diverse causes. Can't make something out of nothing. Someone's (s?) (es?) ox is gonna be gored to continue forward with civilization...

 

[NCOBX]

As things stand, it's undeniable that coal and natural gas are powering the "clean" EV push. Not that I'm bothered by that, it's just a fact.

And you shouldn’t be bothered by that, not sure why they (not you) are still demonizing coal when it’s currently one of the cleanest energy sources in America. A dual fuel gas turbine running on diesel spouts out many times the dirty stuff and no one seems to care.

Im sure the environmentalists all overlook the products in their homes and medicines made from coal by-products.

 

[Pancho Kornwallace]

Good to know. California can't even keep the lights on at this point. Going all in on EVs at this point is not practical until the infrastructure is in place to support it.

Coal or Natural gas? Nuclear is out of the question. Wind and Solar are so spread out that it requires significant investment just to connect it to the grid, You know,you don't see wind farms except in rural areas and there is a significant lobby out there opposing them.

Who is going to pay for maintenance of the road infrastructure? Currently it's paid through on fuels. Tax on electricity? Tell that to someone who lives in the city and doesn't own a vehicle.

Other alternate fuels (Hydrogen?) are still in development. May be other, better alternatives to electric out there.

Not trying to get into a debate. But before we all jump on a bandwagon, lets make sure it is strong enough to hold all of us...

I'll step off of the soapbox now...

1. The infrastructure is fine. Just cut the price in 1/2 to plug in overnight, and most people will program their cars to charge then. Bandwidth overnight is the same, but usage drops ~70% from 1am to 5am.
2. Electricity, however it is generated, is far more efficient than gasoline transporting manually to 40,000 gas stations. Focus the energy on making electricity better (wind, solar, nuclear, currents, whatever...). These plants are highly regulated and do not spew toxic fumes directly into the sidewalk air that we breathe. They are typically away from population centers.
3. The infrastructure is bad because, in part, due to massive, heavy, tanker trucks transporting fuel.


All this being stated, I am getting a Bronco. But it will likely be my last ICE vehicle.

 

[Fordmanbob]

Hard no. This infatuation with EVs is going to end badly. Key truths - inability to recycle expensive, short-lifespan batteries, huge current and growing disposal problem, limited supply of lithium, cobalt, rare earths and other key elements needed to manufacture batteries will create a mining crisis and exploding costs for said batteries, short range, inevitable tax levies that the current subsidized crop of EVs enjoy, the ban of EVs to be parked underground or in some car parks due to fire hazard to name a few.

That replacement battery you’ll need for your EV could be double the cost in a few years. Add that to depreciation and you’ve sunk a f-ton of cash into a commodity that will depreciate severely.

This fad will end. Buyer beware.

Renewable energy will replace fossil fuels. Just like the lightbulb replaced candles and the car replaced the horse.
It's called progress.

 

[Fordmanbob]

And you shouldn’t be bothered by that, not sure why they (not you) are still demonizing coal when it’s currently one of the cleanest energy sources in America. A dual fuel gas turbine running on diesel spouts out many times the dirty stuff and no one seems to care.

Im sure the environmentalists all overlook the products in their homes and medicines made from coal by-products.

No such thing as "clean coal"

 

[NCOBX]

No such thing as "clean coal"

Coal is one of the cleanest forms of energy in the United States, scrubbers at every single plant remove 99.999% of particulates and by-products are a hot commodity. We need more coal plants, the last new coal plant in the US was built in 2018.

We don’t live in China.

 

[Fordmanbob]

Coal is one of the cleanest forms of energy in the United States, scrubbers at every single plant remove 99.999% of particulates and by-products are a hot commodity. We need more coal plants, the last new coal plant in the US was built in 2018.

We don’t live in China.

No such thing as clean coal. Coal is a dying industry.....face it and move on.

 

[NCOBX]

No such thing as clean coal. Coal is a dying industry.....face it and move on.

Incorrect, coal is the future. Care to explain how modern US coal isn’t clean?

 

[Fordmanbob]

Incorrect, coal is the future. Care to explain how modern US coal isn’t clean?

You are dreaming if you think coal is the future. Coal is the past just like candles lighting homes. I'm done with political bs.....this forum is for bronco lovers.

 

[NCOBX]

You are dreaming if you think coal is the future. Coal is the past just like candles lighting homes. I'm done with political bs.....this forum is for bronco lovers.

Where’s the political BS, your post is the first I’ve seen mention politics. I’m taking a neutral stance.

Coal is the future.
Solar takes thousands of acres to get small amounts of energy - thousands of acres is highly inefficient and is in itself pollution. Wind isn’t cost effective and like solar has issues regulating supply.
Nuclear is a no go, what’s the last nuke plant we have?
Gas cannot supply a baseline generation
You can only build so many dams for hydro.

I have to say outside of this forum I have never seen the hang up with coal. One day there may be an electric Bronco and it will run on clean US coal.

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