Electronics; how much is too much?

[Ole Skool Bronc]

You sure have come into this forum with an ego and a chip on your shoulder the last few days. Sounds like no matter what we say or no matter what Ford does with the Bronco, you're going to be negative and upset. I'm glad I'm not a miserable person like you seem to be.

Nope, not in the least. I came here excited and eagerly expectant joining the "New" Bronco crowd. However, after being instantly flamed by newbies because I have an experienced opinion on what a 21st century off road machine should be....well let's just say; it pretty much chilled me on what to expect. If the responses I've received so far are any indication of the future; it looks as if Ford is going to build a awesome poser rig.

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[Ole Skool Bronc]

JK's are the tipping point between the TJ and the JL. Wouldn't own a JL. Yes; a 2014+ JK. Own two TJ's. 2004 was the last really great year. in 2005 the electronics started the down hill changes. Maybe that's why I have a lifetime guarantee on my ECM from Chrysler on the 05?

 

[Ole Skool Bronc]

Ever ran topless with leather seats in 100 degree temperatures?

 

[TeocaliMG]

Ole Skool Bronc, given your expertise what electronics do you deem necessary to meet the necessary EPA regulations and modern crash safety requirements. I am curious what you will say. Additionally I wonder what base price you would like to see this platform offered at. Lastly I will assume the utmost mechanical robustness is already included (something the TJ and previous Jeeps really lack) as well as competitive powertrain specs. I will inform the powertrain research team I was a part of last year post haste! in all seriousness though I am wondering what you really expected? As others have pointed out/mocked. Even if Ford could prove there was a market for a modern built retro rig, it legally couldn't sell it!

I appreciate your enthusiasm for the Bronco, some of us on here may disagree with you on the utility of modern electronics but I think there may be a more important disconnect. Most of us here understand that Ford HAS to do certain things to make a saleable vehicle and we accept that, and discuss the opportunities and challenges that brings.

 

[Ole Skool Bronc]

You're still here?

Yeap, still here. Sorry reality is disturbing your fantasy. No worries, probably not here for long. However after owning EB's for over 40 years I was naturally looking forward to the New Bronco. I check the net ever now and then to see what's happening and found this Forum. It's been an 'educational' experience.

 

[bbostic5]

Nope, not in the least. I came here excited and eagerly expectant joining the "New" Bronco crowd. However, after being instantly flamed by newbies because I have an experienced opinion on what a 21st century off road machine should be....well let's just say; it pretty much chilled me on what to expect. If the responses I've received so far are any indication of the future; it looks as if Ford is going to build a awesome poser rig.

Please enlighten us on what qualifies you to have your "experienced opinion as to what a 21st century off road machine SHOULD BE". And don't say it's your "whole life spent as a union electrician" like you spouted off in the other thread like we're all of the sudden supposed to think higher of you.

Btw, owning old off roaders doesn't qualify you either.

 

[JimmyDean]

Yeap, still here. Sorry reality is disturbing your fantasy. No worries, probably not here for long. However after owning EB's for over 40 years I was naturally looking forward to the New Bronco. I check the net ever now and then to see what's happening and found this Forum. It's been an 'educational' experience.

OSB, it would appear to me that the problem most people are having here with your post is this:
You expect EB levels of ruggedness, with new levels of reliability, without new levels of technology.
You expect the EB experience, in a new vehicle, without the things that new vehicles require.

These are all things that have been hashed out here dozens of times. We are all understanding of the point that the bronco will have to have modern tech to make it to market. emissions, controls, safety features. We also have hashed out and understand that first and foremost, Ford's business is making money. And for the Bronco to continue for years, it must show a profit. Continuing for years is how you get a solid aftermarket so that we can mold our own personal Bronco's into our own versions of them. and for the Bronco to show a profit, it must be marketed to a wide audience. this means that many newer optional 'goodies' must be available options. If you say that, 80% of purchasers will want some type of touch screen nav/controls, then it is likely cheaper for Ford to just put it in 100% of Broncos and be done with it, than two have to carry two separate groups of constructions and parts and even production lines. So if you do not want these things, chances are you will just have to carry out a delete yourself, or maybe the aftermarket will provide one (not likely).

This is simply the basis of modern cars here. There are emissions requirements, safety requirements, that the EBs simply did not have to meet. For example, you notice how the Jeep went from a fully removeable top to the panel type setup now? and even then years before that the cage went from only a 4-point that was a bar right above and behind the driver to going over the rear seat as well? Those weren't stylistic design changes by Jeep for the hell of it. those were mandated safety requirement changes imposed on Jeep. the bronco will see the same, you will not see a fully open air rear seat on the Bronco.

the EB was allowed to handle like shit at highway speeds, because it wasn't designed for that. and people were smart enough to know that when they bought them. Now every non-commercial vehicle has to maintain stable handling at something like 100mph. this comes at sacrifices for things that are needed off-road, this is why Ford is very likely to go with an IFS instead of SFA. This is one reason why Jeep keeps getting bigger and bigger.

You know, I helped my uncle work on his CJ-5 the other day (he bought it new, white renegade, V8...) The front radiator and grill is supported by two 5/16" thick rods that run back to the firewall. That's it. There's no roll protection over the rear seat. I mean, that thing is a motor, a steering wheel, 2 axles and 4 wheels, and the bare minimum to connect it all together and control it. It is also a death trap if you get into an accident, and really suggested to never take it over like 60-65. Any company who built one now, for on the road, would be out of business within a month from all the lawsuits when they get rolled trying to do 80 on the interstate and a family of 4 gets thrown out and squished. So they got bigger, longer, wider, the cage goes over the entire passenger area. And because of emissions everything had to get more efficient. first machining and tolerances improved. then intakes improved, but eventually you reached the max you could do emissions wise in a certain engine size. So engines started to get smaller. then they reached their max. So other tricks had to come up, cutting cylinders when not needed, shutting off when stopped, etc.

And we, the U.S. consumers, with all of our gizmos, and being connected, want to remain connected everywhere, and that means in our cars too. And just because YOU and 4 other people don't, Ford or Chevy or Jeep is not going to make a one-off car just for you unless you are paying the BIG bucks for it. Because 99% of everyone else wants these things, they'll have to build them into the model. Maybe Ford could make the Bronco the way you want (I won't lie, that is how I would like to see it, but I know it can't happen), but it would have to be priced like the GT500, or likely even higher, because there would be no base to rely on to cover some of the engineering costs (the GT500 falls back onto the mustang for a lot of the expense). This is because they would only be selling a couple hundred thousand of them, TOPS, through a few years of production, and it would have to be hand built not being a mass produced model where each one is slightly custom.

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

Please enlighten us on what qualifies you to have your "experienced opinion ..."
Btw, owning old off roaders doesn't qualify you either.

Having more experience off roading than half the people here have years alive seems reasonable to me ...

It makes the probability that he'll actually buy one instead of just trolling the forum higher too.

The peanut gallery whines if you already own a Bronco, and they whine if you don't.

 

[bbostic5]

OSB, it would appear to me that the problem most people are having here with your post is this:
You expect EB levels of ruggedness, with new levels of reliability, without new levels of technology.
You expect the EB experience, in a new vehicle, without the things that new vehicles require.

These are all things that have been hashed out here dozens of times. We are all understanding of the point that the bronco will have to have modern tech to make it to market. emissions, controls, safety features. We also have hashed out and understand that first and foremost, Ford's business is making money. And for the Bronco to continue for years, it must show a profit. Continuing for years is how you get a solid aftermarket so that we can mold our own personal Bronco's into our own versions of them. and for the Bronco to show a profit, it must be marketed to a wide audience. this means that many newer optional 'goodies' must be available options. If you say that, 80% of purchasers will want some type of touch screen nav/controls, then it is likely cheaper for Ford to just put it in 100% of Broncos and be done with it, than two have to carry two separate groups of constructions and parts and even production lines. So if you do not want these things, chances are you will just have to carry out a delete yourself, or maybe the aftermarket will provide one (not likely).

This is simply the basis of modern cars here. There are emissions requirements, safety requirements, that the EBs simply did not have to meet. For example, you notice how the Jeep went from a fully removeable top to the panel type setup now? and even then years before that the cage went from only a 4-point that was a bar right above and behind the driver to going over the rear seat as well? Those weren't stylistic design changes by Jeep for the hell of it. those were mandated safety requirement changes imposed on Jeep. the bronco will see the same, you will not see a fully open air rear seat on the Bronco.

the EB was allowed to handle like shit at highway speeds, because it wasn't designed for that. and people were smart enough to know that when they bought them. Now every non-commercial vehicle has to maintain stable handling at something like 100mph. this comes at sacrifices for things that are needed off-road, this is why Ford is very likely to go with an IFS instead of SFA. This is one reason why Jeep keeps getting bigger and bigger.

You know, I helped my uncle work on his CJ-5 the other day (he bought it new, white renegade, V8...) The front radiator and grill is supported by two 5/16" thick rods that run back to the firewall. That's it. There's no roll protection over the rear seat. I mean, that thing is a motor, a steering wheel, 2 axles and 4 wheels, and the bare minimum to connect it all together and control it. It is also a death trap if you get into an accident, and really suggested to never take it over like 60-65. Any company who built one now, for on the road, would be out of business within a month from all the lawsuits when they get rolled trying to do 80 on the interstate and a family of 4 gets thrown out and squished. So they got bigger, longer, wider, the cage goes over the entire passenger area. And because of emissions everything had to get more efficient. first machining and tolerances improved. then intakes improved, but eventually you reached the max you could do emissions wise in a certain engine size. So engines started to get smaller. then they reached their max. So other tricks had to come up, cutting cylinders when not needed, shutting off when stopped, etc.

And we, the U.S. consumers, with all of our gizmos, and being connected, want to remain connected everywhere, and that means in our cars too. And just because YOU and 4 other people don't, Ford or Chevy or Jeep is not going to make a one-off car just for you unless you are paying the BIG bucks for it. Because 99% of everyone else wants these things, they'll have to build them into the model. Maybe Ford could make the Bronco the way you want (I won't lie, that is how I would like to see it, but I know it can't happen), but it would have to be priced like the GT500, or likely even higher, because there would be no base to rely on to cover some of the engineering costs (the GT500 falls back onto the mustang for a lot of the expense). This is because they would only be selling a couple hundred thousand of them, TOPS, through a few years of production, and it would have to be hand built not being a mass produced model where each one is slightly custom.

For me, it's less about his expectations and more about his attitude, which is, "I know more than you and my opinion is the only thing that matters." I cannot take him seriously at all.

 

[bbostic5]

Having more experience off roading than half the people here have years alive seems reasonable to me ...

It makes the probability that he'll actually buy one instead of just trolling the forum higher too.

The peanut gallery whines if you already own a Bronco, and they whine if you don't.

He's done nothing but troll and talk about how great he is.

 

[Carolina Jim]

I won't lie, that is how I would like to see it, but I know it can't happen

JD - I admire you for being the adult in the room....but sometimes it still feels good to just kick the dirt & say Damn!!!

Everything you say is gospel...but consider: (A) inflation aside, vehicles cost a Boatload today; some folks are buying them with 6-8 year financing; (B) I think it was Stampede who posted a vehicle color chart from way back that had 50 color options, and observed that today we pick between 3 greys and white; (C) way way before you could spec a car on-line, you sat down at the dealership and decided on 4-5 pages of individual options - today there's maybe 3 packages; (D) has anyone noticed that ALL cars look like they were designed by the Same Guy?

Reality is...this ain't near as much fun as it used to be. Maybe Bronco can change that for you, me & a lot of folks here.

 

[JimmyDean]

JD - I admire you for being the adult in the room....but sometimes it still feels good to just kick the dirt & say Damn!!!

Everything you say is gospel...but consider: (A) inflation aside, vehicles cost a Boatload today; some folks are buying them with 6-8 year financing; (B) I think it was Stampede who posted a vehicle color chart from way back that had 50 color options, and observed that today we pick between 3 greys and white; (C) way way before you could spec a car on-line, you sat down at the dealership and decided on 4-5 pages of individual options - today there's maybe 3 packages; (D) has anyone noticed that ALL cars look like they were designed by the Same Guy?

Reality is...this ain't near as much fun as it used to be. Maybe Bronco can change that for you, me & a lot of folks here.

Oh I agree with that. My Mach 1, which while not fully loaded out, was comfortably optioned (power stuff, AC, etc, but not the 429...that bastard...) would be $21,000 today. less than an ecoboost. Half the price of a 'comparable' mustang (PP1 GT premium)

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