Leaking seal at MIC roof and windshield frame

[mikejames]

I believe others have encountered similar issues… I’m sure some will say this is “to be expected with a hardtop convertible SUV…” but my wallet begs to differ. Wondering what others’ experience is getting Ford to fix this, and if their fix (assuming one exists) is effective. I have a service appointment for Jan 3rd - dealership is short-staffed and booked up until then (understandable on short notice, with Xmas and all).

Twice in the last week I’ve had water pouring out of the plastic trim at the interior of windshield frame, above the passenger-side dash. Both instances were after overnight rainstorms - mild winter weather (not super cold out - around 5deg C / 41deg F). The water seems to be collecting in the trim at the top of windshield frame, and comes through the joint just forward of the sun visor. It’s about a cup or so each time… hard to say exactly how much as I’m always driving when it happens. Generally pours out when accelerating.

I see no exterior issues with the gasket between the windshield and MIC roof panels. Took the front panels off to get a better look… while there was some water in there, I really couldn’t see where it would be getting in, or if that area was even a problem (there do seem to be channels for drainage). There is a scupper (notch) in the gasket, on both driver and passenger sides, right behind the forward roof rack mounts). Looks like water is supposed to be able to get through there, then presumably drain out some other way…

My best guess is that an internal seal has failed, and water finds its way through only in heavy downpours. If so (or even if not!) this is not great for only 10 months of ownership.

I’ve had my ‘23 2-door Black Diamond since March, and this is the first I’ve dealt with water in the interior - even with many heavy east coast rainstorms through the spring/summer/fall. The front roof panels have only been off a grand total of 1 time: last week, when I was trying to figure out where the leak came from.

Any help would be much appreciated!

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[swooshdave]

I believe others have encountered similar issues… I’m sure some will say this is “to be expected with a hardtop convertible SUV…” but my wallet begs to differ. Wondering what others’ experience is getting Ford to fix this, and if their fix (assuming one exists) is effective. I have a service appointment for Jan 3rd - dealership is short-staffed and booked up until then (understandable on short notice, with Xmas and all).

Twice in the last week I’ve had water pouring out of the plastic trim at the interior of windshield frame, above the passenger-side dash. Both instances were after overnight rainstorms - mild winter weather (not super cold out - around 5deg C / 41deg F). The water seems to be collecting in the trim at the top of windshield frame, and comes through the joint just forward of the sun visor. It’s about a cup or so each time… hard to say exactly how much as I’m always driving when it happens. Generally pours out when accelerating.

I see no exterior issues with the gasket between the windshield and MIC roof panels. Took the front panels off to get a better look… while there was some water in there, I really couldn’t see where it would be getting in, or if that area was even a problem (there do seem to be channels for drainage). There is a scupper (notch) in the gasket, on both driver and passenger sides, right behind the forward roof rack mounts). Looks like water is supposed to be able to get through there, then presumably drain out some other way…

My best guess is that an internal seal has failed, and water finds its way through only in heavy downpours. If so (or even if not!) this is not great for only 10 months of ownership.

I’ve had my ‘23 2-door Black Diamond since March, and this is the first I’ve dealt with water in the interior - even with many heavy east coast rainstorms through the spring/summer/fall. The front roof panels have only been off a grand total on 1 time: last week, when I was trying to figure out where the leak came from.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Could be something as simple as a fitment issue. When I first got mine I had a hard time getting the passenger side panel off. Even took it to the dealer. Tech said there was no problem. But then I showed it the service writer and he acknowledge there was something wrong.

But thanks to the forum I knew how to make the adjustment myself and not waste anymore time at the dealer.

Are you able to simulate the leak with a hose? How easily do the panels come on and off? Are the seals clean? Also there may be drains that are clogged that would allow the water to escape.

So it leaked and you took the panels off and it leaked again?

 

[mikejames]

Could be something as simple as a fitment issue. When I first got mine I had a hard time getting the passenger side panel off. Even took it to the dealer. Tech said there was no problem. But then I showed it the service writer and he acknowledge there was something wrong.

But thanks to the forum I knew how to make the adjustment myself and not waste anymore time at the dealer.

Are you able to simulate the leak with a hose? How easily do the panels come on and off? Are the seals clean? Also there may be drains that are clogged that would allow the water to escape.

So it leaked and you took the panels off and it leaked again?

Fitment could be a factor for sure - the 2 panels up front do fit ever so slightly differently… passenger side sits a couple mm (can you tell I’m Canadian?) rear of the driver side, and the rear outer corner sticks out a little more. However I doubt this is the main cause, as it’s been like this since new and I’ve left it out in some pretty heavy rain with no issues.

[edit: for anyone reading this for the first time, fitment was almost certainly the cause. Read later posts for more info]

You may be right about a clog - I slid my fingernail under the little flap of weatherstripping above the top of window and a bit of grime came out. Both times I had the issue I noticed a slow release of condensation from the top forward corner of that window. When I had the panels off last week, the outer gasket was pretty grimy too - right where the MIC edge laps over. I gave it a wipe, but maybe I need to look closer and try to clear out an actual blockage. I could imagine a clog impeding drainage just enough to cause a trickle to get past the gaskets… might be that it’s only sealed until the path of least resistance becomes… not.

Could be that leaving the roof on all the time actually contributes to the issue… allowing gunk to build up. Especially if you park under a disgusting elm tree like I do.

You’re correct on the last line: leaked, removed panel to inspect/clean, leaked again.

 

[swooshdave]

The mismatched panels is the clue. Parking under a tree is another.

I would adjust the panels so they are even. It’s pretty easy if you have the correct tools.

While the panels are off be sure to clean the seals well. I haven’t studied the seal design in detail but as you look at them try to discern the path they want the water to exit that area. Then make sure it’s clean.

 

[mikejames]

Thanks @swooshdave - I think you were right on the money about this. I took the roof rack off in preparation for my appointment with the dealership (figured I’d make it a little easier for them… the less friction between them and the solution, the easier it is to get them to actually work on it) and I did a more detailed visual inspection with the roof off while I was at it. Could definitely see where the misaligned panel was pinching a weep hole shut, and how the water must have been backing up.

I wanted to have the dealership service department look at it as it’s under warranty and I prefer to have the issue recorded (and avoid them saying I caused it/made it worse with DIY). Plus, I didn’t want to get into roof adjustments in my freezing Nova Scotian driveway!

It took some *persistence* from me to get them to look at it in a timely manner. Initially they tried pouring water on it to see if they could reproduce the leak. When that didn’t do anything, I pointed out that I’ve been able to go through car washes with no issue… it only happens with sustained heavy rainfall overnight, plus it seems maybe it’s exacerbated by the cold (since this wasn’t a problem in the summer). They ultimately took the notes and photos I provided and adjusted [edit: some parts of] the roof panels. Time will tell if this did the trick - crossing my fingers. [edit: spoilers, it didn’t] [edit 2: the adjustments they made the first time didn’t touch the problem area]

As a bonus, I now no longer have an unsightly mismatch between the roof panels - something I had assumed I would just have to live with from factory as a “within tolerances” kind of thing.

Double bonus: while it was in I also had them run a CSP update to fix a dry protection mode issue with the windshield wipers (would slow down to intermittent even during heavy downpours). Surprisingly easy to get them to tack that on, probably because they could see the CSP applied to my vehicle, and it’s just a software fix. Looking forward to not having to twiddle the speeds just to keep the windshield clear!

 

[swooshdave]

Thanks @swooshdave - I think you were right on the money about this. I took the roof rack off in preparation for my appointment with the dealership (figured I’d make it a little easier for them… the less friction between them and the solution, the easier it is to get them to actually work on it) and I did a more detailed visual inspection with the roof off while I was at it. Could definitely see where the misaligned panel was pinching a weep hole shut, and how the water must have been backing up.

I wanted to have the dealership service department look at it as it’s under warranty and I prefer to have the issue recorded (and avoid them saying I caused it/made it worse with DIY). Plus, I didn’t want to get into roof adjustments in my freezing Nova Scotian driveway!

It took some *persistence* from me to get them to look at it in a timely manner. Initially they tried pouring water on it to see if they could reproduce the leak. When that didn’t do anything, I pointed out that I’ve been able to go through car washes with no issue… it only happens with sustained heavy rainfall overnight, plus it seems maybe it’s exacerbated by the cold (since this wasn’t a problem in the summer). They ultimately took the notes and photos I provided and adjusted the roof panels. Time will tell if this did the trick - crossing my fingers.

As a bonus, I now no longer have an unsightly mismatch between the roof panels - something I had assumed I would just have to live with from factory as a “within tolerances” kind of thing.

Double bonus: while it was in I also had them run a CSP update to fix a dry protection mode issue with the windshield wipers (would slow down to intermittent even during heavy downpours). Surprisingly easy to get them to tack that on, probably because they could see the CSP applied to my vehicle, and it’s just a software fix. Looking forward to not having to twiddle the speeds just to keep the windshield clear!

Great!

Keep us updated!

 

[LZ_23WT]

I have the exactly same issue just like OP, 23 WT 4Dr.

Took my car to the dealership and they comfirmed issue. They perform TSB 21-2403 and adjust the front 2 panels. It seems like fix the issue.

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/...21-2403/US/EN/~UEmployee/default.aspx?VIN=&ve

Got the car back, parked outside with pouring weather overnight on purpose, checked passenger sunvisor no water or leaks from trim above whatsoever.

1 week later during holiday vacation with mife, we stayed in the mountains and it was drizzling overnight. Next morning when she got in the car and open the sunvisor water dropped all over the legs.

Talked to the dealer again and they suggested to replace the header seal. Parts are on backorder now so let's wait and see if that helps.

 

[mikejames]

I have the exactly same issue just like OP, 23 WT 4Dr.

Took my car to the dealership and they comfirmed issue. They perform TSB 21-2403 and adjust the front 2 panels. It seems like fix the issue.

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/...21-2403/US/EN/~UEmployee/default.aspx?VIN=&ve

Got the car back, parked outside with pouring weather overnight on purpose, checked passenger sunvisor no water or leaks from trim above whatsoever.

1 week later during holiday vacation with mife, we stayed in the mountains and it was drizzling overnight. Next morning when she got in the car and open the sunvisor water dropped all over the legs.

Talked to the dealer again and they suggested to replace the header seal. Parts are on backorder now so let's wait and see if that helps.

Aw that’s sucks, sorry to hear. It’s possible they didn’t adjust the panel outwards enough - could still be blocking the weep. Then again if you found it was even more water this time, maybe that does speak to a bad seal. Could be it deformed to the old panel position over time.

Just had my first real rain since the TSB, so fingers crossed…

@LZ_23WT do you have a roof rack installed? I did on mine and I wondered if t it could have been causing more water to find its way near the seal than usual.

 

[LZ_23WT]

Aw that’s sucks, sorry to hear. It’s possible they didn’t adjust the panel outwards enough - could still be blocking the weep. Then again if you found it was even more water this time, maybe that does speak to a bad seal. Could be it deformed to the old panel position over time.

Just had my first real rain since the TSB, so fingers crossed…

@LZ_23WT do you have a roof rack installed? I did on mine and I wondered if t it could have been causing more water to find its way near the seal than usual.

I do not have a roof rack installed.

Haven't took the panels off again after dealer's work. Will tried to remove and check the weep once I have a chance.

But hey at least they are willing to take care of this lol.

 

[mikejames]

Bad news... got a nice little storm last night and the roof leaked again.

Good news... I still think we know what the problem was...

From what I can tell, the adjustments they made to the roof panels only correct the more obvious misalignment at the B-pillar. The corner at the A-pillar is still really tight - doesn't look like they adjusted it at all.

Hopefully this time the service dept spends a little less time splashing water on the roof and phoning me up to tell me "we can't reproduce the leak..." Yeah, no kidding - are you dumping 40mm of rain on it over the course of 8-12 hrs? No? then I'm not surprised...

 

[RCash8]

Bad news... got a nice little storm last night and the roof leaked again.

Good news... I still think we know what the problem was...

From what I can tell, the adjustments they made to the roof panels only correct the more obvious misalignment at the B-pillar. The corner at the A-pillar is still really tight - doesn't look like they adjusted it at all.

Hopefully this time the service dept spends a little less time splashing water on the roof and phoning me up to tell me "we can't reproduce the leak..." Yeah, no kidding - are you dumping 40mm of rain on it over the course of 8-12 hrs? No? then I'm not surprised...

Same problem on our 23 WT. Front panels are misaligned just like mikejames. Took the panels off again as our current storm here in NorCal has let up. Found water in the channel of the seal across the windshield. See the attached photo. It shows the water backed up to hole in the seal. There are two of these holes in the seal. One each on either side of the five attachment bolts that hold the seal in place. This appears to be the spot where the water gets inside our Broncos.

We will be contacting our local dealer this week to start the process of a warranty claim. Hopefully they can adjust the panels correctly. Hate to think that some of us may need seals that are not available.

Good Luck to you all.

 

[mikejames]

Updates…

I took the bronco in a second time (earliest I could get another appointment, around end of January) to get the leak addressed. Provided the service advisor with a series of photos and a little writeup of what I thought the issue was (roof panel misalignment). Suffice it to say, I don’t think they spent much time reading that. They did not even attempt to fix the misalignment of the roof panels (see photos in my previous post); all they did was add a gob of silicone sealant at the backside of the weatherstripping (see below).

I can’t see how they think this would help… if that sealant sees water, it’s because it’s already gotten past the rubber seal and is in the interior. The only thing I can think of is that they thought water was getting through from inside the drainage channel, under the 2nd seal. This is not possible, because the entire weatherstripping piece is 1 continuous section, in a “U” shape between the 2 seals. Image, viewed from the front:

[Sidebar: @RCash8, I think I figured out why there’s water in that channel: it’s probably a drainage channel, to collect the little bit of water that does make its way past the first (outer) seal. I think that’s what those holes you identified are for - they likely connect to drain tubes that run down to an outlet somewhere under the vehicle.]

Annnnd once again, one week after this last attempt was made, the roof is leaking (after the first snow melt, following a blizzard). Exactly the same issue, zero apparent effect from any of their 2 previous efforts. I’ve since taken it in for what will be the THIRD time, and they’ve had it for a couple days now, no word yet. They say since this is clearly an issue beyond what they were able to diagnose previously, they’re going to have their service foreman personally look at it, and hold the hands of the techs as they try to fix it. I don’t know if they plan to listen this time re: weep hole/roof alignment, but I’m probably not going to accept it back until they’ve at least attempted to fix that issue. Arguably, that’s out of spec whether or not it’s causing the leak… and apparently we’ve tried nearly everything else, short of ripping off and replacing the weatherstripping (not that doing that would make any difference if the drainage is still blocked).

I really appreciate that the contributors in this thread have been largely sympathetic and commiserating; not chiming in with the usual Bronc-holm syndrome comments like, “it’s an off road vehicle with a removable roof, don’t get so fussy about a little water.” My revolutionary opinion is: it’s not unreasonable to expect a vehicle this expensive (and from brand new) to not leak from the roof. Clearly it’s possible to prevent leaks, because it has never (jinx) happened on the driver’s side in my case. To any who think my passenger should suck it up and enjoy the brisk morning showers… how about I let you try and tell her that!

Stay tuned… will update once I hear more from the service dept…

 

[PEGB]

I’m not sure this is your problem also, but I’ve had a similar problem since I installed my bestop. Upon closer inspection I had the front corner near the weep hole drain pinched a little, and also the drain was crushed. I plan to find a piece of stainless tubing of the right diameter and cut a small length to insert into the weep hole to help keep it open. I think it’s pretty easy to pinch closed and hope this will help drain any water that gets into the seal area “gutter”.

 

[mikejames]

I’m not sure this is your problem also, but I’ve had a similar problem since I installed my bestop. Upon closer inspection I had the front corner near the weep hole drain pinched a little, and also the drain was crushed. I plan to find a piece of stainless tubing of the right diameter and cut a small length to insert into the weep hole to help keep it open. I think it’s pretty easy to pinch closed and hope this will help drain any water that gets into the seal area “gutter”.

Tubing is a good idea - I thought about hanging some string through it, just to prove to the service dept that this is supposed to be a drain…

Not sure how the bestop attachment works, have never been up close & personal with a soft top. In my case, the corner of the hardtop panel is so tight that if I stuck anything hard in there, I likely wouldn’t be able to get it on.

I could do the adjustments myself, but I want a warranty solution to this issue so they can’t claim I messed something up and then not honour the warranty, if any further action is required.

 

[mikejames]

Update:

Bronco is still at the dealership, but I got a video message and text saying that they will be replacing the weatherstripping - it’s ordered and *supposed* to be here tomorrow. They also said they corrected a “loose” alignment of the roof panel - not sure if they’re talking about what they did before, or if the roof panels have been properly aligned now.

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