If you want to fight nose dive you want preload which is lift. My5100s did pretty good for nose dive and sway at the highest setting. Having just switched to soft 4wp coilovers I have more nose dive and more body roll with more lift. SAS is also soft and nose diving so you might not be happy with them without collars.
You can put them back together and save $400
First off, get on the California 6 Gen Broncos Facebook page. We are going to diablo dropoff tomorrow. There is a meet spot in El Cajon and I'm meeting a couple up in Temeucla. I'm in Murrieta, so I know those trails you're talking about. I also have a black diamond. There are a bunch of other groups as well.Just finished reading 14 pages of discussion, phew, thanks to @Bigguyry2000 for starting this useful thread... but I am still a bit fuzzy whether the stage 2's are suited for my needs.
My setup and use: I have a BD 2.7 non SAS, with BL takeoff rims and 33" KO2s. The main offroad use is to take me places for my photography hobby, on average once a month. The most "challenging" of my offroading is rocky roads in the Sierras or SoCal (for example the road to Valley of the Moon near Jacumba). No plans on going to 35s nor doing anything more than a 5 trail. No plans for winches, heavy skid plates (already have ASFIR aluminum down there), steel bumpers, tire carriers, etc.
My need: Been surprised how easily the belly rubs with the current setup so looking for a modest 1.5-2" lift for the sprung components. No plans for other changes (UCAs, etc) that are not required.
My process: Was initially thinking of doing it via SAS takeoffs, but have been reading here about a "braking nosedive" and stiffer on-road ride due to digressive valving. So I started looking into the Eibachs, but it appears that in order to get such small lift out of them the adjustment will need to be backed out all the way, which reduces the preload on the springs, which exacerbates the nose dive.
My questions:
If you are still reading, thank you
- Am I correct in thinking that stage 2 is not well matched to my needs and stage 1 may be better?
- Other than range of lift, what is the difference between stage 1 and stage 2
- Is the nose dive with the SAS Bilsteins really as bad as people make it out to be? I have read complaints about nose dive with the Hitachis and have never noticed anyting that bothers me.
- Are there better options for my needs I should consider in the under $2k category
The nose dive won't be worse than the stock SAS stuff. It should be a little better than those. Its much better than the stock base shocks. I have stage 2s on right now and they are very compliant but not nearly as soft as the stock stuff.. I have a Relentless Fab bumper and warn Evo 10s on the front. So mine dives a bit, but not bad. I don't have a problem with ride height in the front being low either. My bumper is welded 1/4 plate. It's beefy.
Hey I got the same package just a 22 OBX and my tires are 34.6 inches. Just wanted to know how much of a lift you got and how far did you adjust it to get it. Where you able to adjust it before putting it on or did you play with it after you put it on?I just installed the Stage2 Eibach on our 2023 OBX 4dr 2.3 (non-SAS) along with 34"/295 Milestar XT's on powerdercoated OEM OBX wheels. Daily driving is a night/day improvement, the suspension absorbs the road far better (ran a week with just the 34's to compare).
I have the adjusters threaded for minimal lift, and the height is perfect. Will need a small adjustment with the non-winch front bumper arrives. And the tire/wheel combo allows for the crash bars to remain (not that I care) AND has less than 1/4" of that annoying "poke" that my wife hates
Thanks @Bigguyry2000 for the info you have provided
I have everything dropped to less than 4 thread turns, so almost as low it they can go. Still allowing it to settle, and the front bumper will be going on today so a bit more adjustment will be needed. About 2" of rear lift, a bit more in front to reduce the rake.
I've been semi-following this thread since I installed 2.0s on my BL at the time of your original post. I'm extremely happy with the ride an performance but I had a bitch of a time getting these dialed-in to level the truck front to back and side to side. I originally made equal adjustments to each coil-over so that each one had virtually the same amount of adjustment to get to 2" of lift in the front, 1.75" in the rear. After numerous attempts of equal adjustments I was not able to get level front to front and side to side. The only way I was able to get level in both directions was drastic adjustment differences at each coil-over resulting in substantial differences in pre-load at each corner. At 2" of lift in the front the DS is adjusted roughly half way through the range while the PS front is fully maxed out. At 1.75" in the rear the DS is at it's lowest possible setting while the PS rear is roughly half way through the adjustment range. I basically have 4 coil-overs with substantial difference in pre-load. I was on the phone w/ Eibach several times and they made several suggestions but in the end couldn't give me an explanation or remedy other than I may need heavier springs. The thing goes down the road fine but I'm thinking the difference in pre-load at each corner can't be a good thing. Did you have any issues adjusting? Any thoughts on my situation?I was fortunate to have a connection with Eibach through a friend/shop owner locally here in Southern California. I got the Stage 1 prototype system in March. 2022. I have a MY2021 Black Diamond, 2 Door Manual non sasquatch. I had the Stage 1 system for approximately 10k miles.
Stage1
Pros:
Very cost effective solution
Excellent Valving and Spring rate
Springs are swappable down the line if you find yourself loading up heavy for overlanding.
Not overly stressing on suspension joints/bushings.
Cons:
Clip adjusting not as easy as the Stage 2 threaded body
Not a fully adjustable system (I.E. Fox, King, Radflow, Etc).
The Stage 1 system on my bronco was a fantastic upgrade. I live in Southern California and drove it to Flagstaff and Redmond for Overland Expo West & PNW. Drove basically from Mexico to Canada last summer, and back. It's seen about 1k offroading here in Southern California, Oregon, Washington, and Arizona.
If you're main goal is to have a better (slightly stiffer) ride, that is height adjustable, that won't break the bank, this is your lift. You can retain factory arms with no adverse wear. The lack of compression and rebound adjustment isn't a big deal. Most people don't know how to properly adjust these settings anyway. So for a full system (both axles) that is half the price of one axle setup of a fully adjustable set, it's a very reasonable tradeoff. I have the most time on the stage 1 and have thoroughly abused it, with no failures at all. It's been in the air in Johnson Valley, slow crawled up rocks, been daily driven, and on long road trips.
Stage2
Pros:
Threaded body adjustment with spanner.
Even better feel with spring/shock tuning
True coilover
Still very well priced
Retain factory components
Cons:
Not a fully adjustable system
I got the stage 2 system about 4k miles ago. I daily drive the Bronco, I've taken this system on a road trip to Peoria, up crown king, to Prescott and back home. Since I had a prototype system on the stage 1, this was a real nice upgrade. The stage 1 system has been revised and is even better than when I was testing originally. The stage 2 system I now have is very well done. It has a nice soft ride zone and is not jarring when driving on the road at all. I've got tons of miles on pogo stick lifts that are horrific, this is like riding on a cloud. Offroad wise, I only have a couple hundred miles on this setup, but its very good. Crawling over rocks, higher speed stuff, fire roads, it's easy to maintain control while not being harsh at all even when trying to abuse it by getting air at high speed over things on fire roads.
Recommendations:
Stage 2 if you have the budget for it. The ease of height adjustment is nice. Especially if you're going to be loading up for a a trip offroading for a few days or if you, like me, have a ton of gear/tools you bring. Being able to raise the ride height back to normal is nice.
Stage 1 if you're wanting to keep price more easy to swallow. If you're mostly doing shorter trips, have less gear, or aren't as heavily loaded. Clip height is more a set it and forget it deal.
Both systems are excellent. And I would not hesitate to run either one. I did get these systems for free, but I'll say what I want because it's not like Eibach can come take them back now haha.
If you have any questions let me know, if I can't answer it directly, I'll get the answer.
Stage 1 pics:
Stage 2 pics:
How close is it if you just do the same coil perch height on each cornet? Is it off by inches? Or is it off by like half an inch?
Dude, thanks for the detailed response, a dick surely you are not.How close is it if you just do the same coil perch height on each cornet? Is it off by inches? Or is it off by like half an inch?
When you are making the adjustments, are you cycling the suspension at all in between cranking on each corner? Things will want to stay in place until you cycle the suspension and (in IFS) roll the tires a bit. The way a front arm articulates, it goes up and down but it does it in an arch laterally away from the centerline of the frame. So the spring is lifting the weight of the vehcile but it's also slightly scrubbing the tire away from the frame/arm mount, which can throw off adjustments calculations.
No vehicle is going to sit absolutely perfect height corner to corner unless you take the time to corner weigh and then get specific spring rates and/or corner balance weight.
For example, the gas tank is on the passenger side. I have a 2 door so that's roughly 16 gallons. Not accounting for temptress density, that's roughly 96lbs of fuel, not including tank weight. I also have a black diamond so there is a skid there. I weight 200lbs so when I sit in the driver seat, that balances some weight. But mine isn't going to sit perfect either. I honestly don't even check that kind of thing. But I will now so i can give you feedback. Because load is so dynamic in a normal passenger vehicle its just very difficult to get it perfect. The frame isn't even perfect tbh. You're in a situation of stacking tolerances. And you're at the very end of every tolerance that's been stacked. The frame has tolerance for to aft and side to side. The mounts for the body, suspension, and brackets, all have tolerance. If you're measuring to the fender, the body panels have tolerance to the body which has tolerance to the frame mounts which are not perfect dimensionally and have their own tolerance as well.
I'm not trying to be a dick, I promise. I once went round and round with this kind of thing on a lowered truck. A half inch out was far more noticeable when you're body is only a few inches off the ground. I'm just saying all that so you kinda get a quick mile high view of what we're dealing with here when looking at how things come out at the end of the wash cycle (so to speak)
Here are my measurements take in my garage. Which I won't try to remotely promise is level lol.
Drivers side front-
Bottom of perch ring to top of mount- 3&3/16 inches
Floor to bottom of frame to 21 & 1/2
Passenger side front-
Perch to mount 3&3/16
Floor to frame 21 & 3/4
Driver side rear-
Ring to mount- 5&1/8
Floor to frame (just in front of rear control arm- 16&1/8
Passenger rear-
Ring to mount- 5&1/8
Floor to frame 16&3/8
Pictures of how I measured:
I just wouldn't worry much about it. I understand the OCD about it though. Maybe try to balance any loads you carry or soemthing. I know I usually always carry my air compressor, 4 tire inflation lines, impact gun, and a decent bottle jack. Probably 100lbs of crap, and I try to keep it on the passenger side. Maybe that has something to do with it.
Maybe a tad OCD but visually I can't except how the truck sits if all shock settings are the same. Prior to the install the truck had 1.5" of rake and was sitting within .5" of level side to side (both Front and Back). I have confirmed that post install I'm lifted 2" in the front and 1.75" in the rear. These are where my shocks are set to achieve these same side to side dimensions w/ 1" less rake.
