Low CG, max articulation, and biggest tire size without interference?

[BigMeatsBronco]

I really like this thread.

I am starting to notice that my base 4dr wildtrack, with the sway bar deleted, beadlocks rings, and some armor is doing a lot more or equal to some rigs with 37s. I am getting 19 inches of up travel on the front wheel before tires slip, and I am starting to think my rear is my limiter. I don't even have hardly any body roll with the IFS, so I am wondering about rear arms and shocks now.

My only concern with aftermarket shocks is they love bare metal, Ironman doesn't have a bronco shock yet, are there any others that are quality and not prone to rust? (I live in a snow area.)

Thanks for all this awesome info!

19 " up front? you meant 9"

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[Tex]

19 " up front? you meant 9"

I'm down for 19" of up travel, that sounds sick

 

[sfonteno]

19 " up front? you meant 9"

No I meant 19 inches. As in the front tire, in combination with the rest of the car, gets 19" of travel before other tires start losing traction. So rear axle, other front tire, frame flex, and vehicle length all factored in. The 4 door flexes quite a bit.

I believe the rear can do more, but I haven't tested it.

 

[Tex]

No I meant 19 inches. As in the front tire, in combination with the rest of the car, gets 19" of travel before other tires start losing traction. So rear axle, other front tire, frame flex, and vehicle length all factored in. The 4 door flexes quite a bit.

I believe the rear can do more, but I haven't tested it.

Oh I see, like lifting the front tire up with a forklift. I measured 25" on the rear, stock suspension, no swaybar, and 34psi in the tires. I was pretty surprised at how well it does from the factory, especially with IFS.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

No I meant 19 inches. As in the front tire, in combination with the rest of the car, gets 19" of travel before other tires start losing traction. So rear axle, other front tire, frame flex, and vehicle length all factored in. The 4 door flexes quite a bit.

I believe the rear can do more, but I haven't tested it.

that's articulation, NOT front wheel travel...

 

[sfonteno]

that's articulation, NOT front wheel travel...

Sure, I was specifically seeing how far my front tire could travel UP, if I wanted articulation I could regurgitate RTI values lol. Not disagreeing with you, just clarifying, thanks sir.

I avoid forklift stuff because it's not really realistic? Like the sway bar, bump stops, wheels, frame, and weight distribution can all impact traction. That does confirm though that the rear can get quite high though.

 

[Tex]

I avoid forklift stuff because it's not really realistic? Like the sway bar, bump stops, wheels, frame, and weight distribution can all impact traction. That does confirm though that the rear can get quite high though.

Yeah that's what happens when you're sitting around with nothing to do and a forklift available for hours at a time LOL

 

[Merc4x4]

Yeah that's what happens when you're sitting around with nothing to do and a forklift available for hours at a time LOL

Jealous.
I don't have any heavy machinery at my disposal. I have to imagine all the destruction fun I could have!

 

[BroncoAZ]

My 87 FSB was limited to 15” of travel up front, it would go 17” but the center U joint in the passenger shaft wouldn’t survive when the front end was in the air fully extended.

 

[sfonteno]

Did Windrock Trail 26 last week and Brocofest East.

There was some rubbing on the fuel tank and rear/bottom control arm brackets, both of which I armored/improved before hand, the dudes running the group did a great job spotting.

Overall with the updates I have done to the suspension I am really happy with my Bronco. It isn't tilty, it climbs/descends well at different angles, it handles loose boulders well, it articulates amazing, and it drives on the road well.
Edit, not sure why that image hung onto my reply

 

[omg_bbq]

I completely removed everything associated with my front sway bar about 15K miles ago. The sway bar and links are still sitting in the garage. Less body roll than a factory 4runner or any factory 4WD truck with sway bars. I had a little buyer's remorse for choosing the Wildtrak over the Badlands when I learned you could add goat modes with Forscan, but after removing the sway bar entirely I realized that the fancy auto sway bar would have been wasted money and extra weight/complexity up front. Can't say that I got a whole ton of extra flex, but there's definitely more than there was. I would highly recommend disconnecting it and just test drive it for a little while, you'll quickly see what I mean in that the Bronco really doesn't need a sway bar at all. It rolls a bit more at the start of a hard turn but doesn't keep stuffing the outside tire like you would expect, the suspension itself limits body roll considerably. Takes maybe 30min to remove, very straightforward and looks easy to reinstall if it's not for you (I'm personally used to daily driving desert trucks and crawlers that never had sway bars, so I could be biased in that regard).

Hey its been a while, are you still happy with removing the front sway bar completely?

 

[Tex]

Hey its been a while, are you still happy with removing the front sway bar completely?

It's still sitting in the garage gathering dust, and I don't foresee a situation where it'll ever go on again.

A little while after that post I put a LOD bumper/tire carrier on the back and loaded it down with probably an extra 400lbs or more of stuff, I'm squatting about 2" in the rear as a result. With that amount of weight (and almost all of it up high), there's one little spot that it will sway. It happens under full throttle acceleration and a lane change between about 60-80mph. It doesn't happen going straight, or around a turn, only going from one lane to another. I suspect the load shift on acceleration combined with the speed and lateral force from an abrupt lane change is what sets it off. It's no problem, you can ride it out, it just looks a little wiggly is all. Letting off the throttle for half a second stabilizes it, but it eventually stabilizes itself. I've goofed around in the past before I got the tire carrier trying to get it to wobble on its own until the stability thing kicks in, and this wiggle isn't even a third of that intensity. It feels a bit like there's a kid in the back seat rocking back and forth to annoy you. It's not enough for me to want to put the swaybar back on, though if I found a lightweight long travel rear swaybar for a 2dr I might consider one to see what it does (provided it doesn't reduce flex). It's entirely possible it's only happening because the rear is squatting so much already...if I could get it level in the rear, it might go away entirely.

 

[BigFootie]

My 87 FSB was limited to 15” of travel up front, it would go 17” but the center U joint in the passenger shaft wouldn’t survive when the front end was in the air fully extended.

Those look like the wheels from my Lightning! I see the center caps are missing on yours too!

 

[omg_bbq]

It's still sitting in the garage gathering dust, and I don't foresee a situation where it'll ever go on again.

A little while after that post I put a LOD bumper/tire carrier on the back and loaded it down with probably an extra 400lbs or more of stuff, I'm squatting about 2" in the rear as a result. With that amount of weight (and almost all of it up high), there's one little spot that it will sway. It happens under full throttle acceleration and a lane change between about 60-80mph. It doesn't happen going straight, or around a turn, only going from one lane to another. I suspect the load shift on acceleration combined with the speed and lateral force from an abrupt lane change is what sets it off. It's no problem, you can ride it out, it just looks a little wiggly is all. Letting off the throttle for half a second stabilizes it, but it eventually stabilizes itself. I've goofed around in the past before I got the tire carrier trying to get it to wobble on its own until the stability thing kicks in, and this wiggle isn't even a third of that intensity. It feels a bit like there's a kid in the back seat rocking back and forth to annoy you. It's not enough for me to want to put the swaybar back on, though if I found a lightweight long travel rear swaybar for a 2dr I might consider one to see what it does (provided it doesn't reduce flex). It's entirely possible it's only happening because the rear is squatting so much already...if I could get it level in the rear, it might go away entirely.

Appreciate the detailed response friend. I think you’re right about that one scenario, sounds like weight transfer in the worse case, shifting lanes at speed.

My biggest sticking point is in panic situations. That 0.1% chance someone steps in front of me or something happens and I need to react fast. But it sounds manageable given you experimenting and trying to induce the wiggle.

I’m pretty convinced!

I have a ‘22 Sas 4 door 2.3 so it actually has a rear swaybar, and it’s my daily. I’m thinking it’ll be fine since I’m lighter than you front and rear. I’m mostly stock and don’t have plans right now to load it up beyond maybe a set of real rock rails and tougher front bumper after my capable gets enough abuse.

 

[Tex]

Appreciate the detailed response friend. I think you’re right about that one scenario, sounds like weight transfer in the worse case, shifting lanes at speed.

My biggest sticking point is in panic situations. That 0.1% chance someone steps in front of me or something happens and I need to react fast. But it sounds manageable given you experimenting and trying to induce the wiggle.

I’m pretty convinced!

I have a ‘22 Sas 4 door 2.3 so it actually has a rear swaybar, and it’s my daily. I’m thinking it’ll be fine since I’m lighter than you front and rear. I’m mostly stock and don’t have plans right now to load it up beyond maybe a set of real rock rails and tougher front bumper after my capable gets enough abuse.

I've done plenty of real world evasive maneuvering with it, between dodging blowouts on the road, deer, and two guys losing control in front of me, nothing particularly of note as far as stability and safety goes. Some of it is due to the fact that I spent my whole life driving something with a lift and big tires or long travel suspensions, so dealing with less than ideal road manners is natural to me. It might take some getting used to, but I never recall having a problem that wasn't directly related to my vehicle not being a BMW when I was learning to drive or being a teen (I guess that's probably the same thing LOL). I've always treated them as top heavy offroad rigs, lots of body roll comes with the territory and I'm probably going to roll if I get sideways.

I'm not opposed to swaybars, but they have to be done in a way that doesn't also hinder other aspects. The front is the logical place for them and having a beefy front bar makes sense in most vehicles if you're trying to dampen all roll forces, but with IFS and a short throw it really hinders offroad performance. Much of the roll control in a vehicle with lots of wheel travel is done with the coilovers and how they're positioned on the a-arms, and what little roll is left can be countered with a lightweight bar. From what I can tell on the 4dr, the rear bar is a lot lighter than the front, and I suspect that would be everything a Bronco would need to maintain good roll control. You might unhook the front swaybar and leave the rear, then give it a try where it's safe. Work your way up just like a test pilot would when finding limits. You might find the limits of the Bronco, you might find your own limits instead, that's just how it works and it's fine either way. I'm certainly not suggesting anyone does something they're not comfortable with. Modify as you see fit

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