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Low CG, max articulation, and biggest tire size without interference?

sfonteno

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That is quite an eye opener. Thanks for posting that video. I love reading about suspension geometry, modifications, and the effects on the suspension. I came across a very in depth article here about perch collars vs top hat spacers, and while I understand what both do, I went with a mild spacer lift. Will it reduce overall articulation and travel? Guess i'll find out.
That dude's videos on IFS are a masterful explanation of ifs geometry. Once you watch all his videos, check out dirt lifestyle and anything Nate has done to his taco, same stuff but on the fab side of things.
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akturbo

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I ran their joints on my 1 ton JKU and really liked them. They really max out what you can get on your set up and had no vibrations that I could ever feel. I also thought about waiting and see what Rock Krawlers new flex joint has to offer but I can find any info on their site about it just watched a video few days ago of it beating out the duraflex joints.

I know that was a vendor video, but it was great info. The Icon arms are a hybrid (different design on each end), does anyone have feedback/experience on their design? I'm leaning toward their stage 8 kit, but thinking I should wait to see what else hits the market in '23, meaning better at a lower price. I want more ground clearance and articulation, concerned Icon is getting high travel claims by allowing too much upward travel allowing the tire to connect with the wheel well.
 

Tricky Dick

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I know that was a vendor video, but it was great info. The Icon arms are a hybrid (different design on each end), does anyone have feedback/experience on their design? I'm leaning toward their stage 8 kit, but thinking I should wait to see what else hits the market in '23, meaning better at a lower price. I want more ground clearance and articulation, concerned Icon is getting high travel claims by allowing too much upward travel allowing the tire to connect with the wheel well.
No experience with the Icons specifically but I've ran "hybrid" arms before, a rubber bushing at one end and johnny joint at the other. Good flex and ride, I like them for street vehicles.
 

OddBall88

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I know that was a vendor video, but it was great info. The Icon arms are a hybrid (different design on each end), does anyone have feedback/experience on their design? I'm leaning toward their stage 8 kit, but thinking I should wait to see what else hits the market in '23, meaning better at a lower price. I want more ground clearance and articulation, concerned Icon is getting high travel claims by allowing too much upward travel allowing the tire to connect with the wheel well.
I have the stage 8 on my bronco and it’s been a fantastic kit. It does allow for a lot more up travel though specially if you don’t run their spacers for running 37” tires. I have a 3/4” body lift and DV8 liners and I still had rubbing at full compression. Moving the bottom shock bolt hole on the rear helped fix it on that end. Front still rubs though.
 

akturbo

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I have the stage 8 on my bronco and it’s been a fantastic kit. It does allow for a lot more up travel though specially if you don’t run their spacers for running 37” tires. I have a 3/4” body lift and DV8 liners and I still had rubbing at full compression. Moving the bottom shock bolt hole on the rear helped fix it on that end. Front still rubs though.
Are you getting their claimed travel? So you think 35's are in the clear?

Sticking with my Mickey 35's, they're only a year old and to replace them with 37s is too much $$$. I know 35s would be all I need if the Bronco wasn't hanging so low underneath.
 

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OddBall88

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Are you getting their claimed travel? So you think 35's are in the clear?

Sticking with my Mickey 35's, they're only a year old and to replace them with 37s is too much $$$. I know 35s would be all I need if the Bronco wasn't hanging so low underneath.
I haven’t measured it but from what it’s done on the trails it sure seems like it is. And yeah 35”s fit no problem.

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akturbo

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I haven’t measured it but from what it’s done on the trails it sure seems like it is. And yeah 35”s fit no problem.

Ford Bronco Low CG, max articulation, and biggest tire size without interference? 8615BD67-C0CF-49D9-9BFE-15014877D90C
Dude, that's legit!
 

Tex

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concerned Icon is getting high travel claims by allowing too much upward travel allowing the tire to connect with the wheel well.
Gaining up travel is a great (probably the best) way to increase articulation, but it often requires mods for clearance. I'd much rather find a way to get more stuff by trimming some wheel wells and hammering pinch welds than overextend my tie rods or CV's with more droop, because there's only so much angle you can get from going further down. I understand not wanting to do those kinds of body mods, but there's only so much you can do when you limit yourself to droop only.
 

sfonteno

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This post will be where I track all the measurements I am going to take with both the Sasquatch and Badlands Bilstein's. (I have both now in my possession.)

Badlands Shock/Spring Measurements:
You can see in the images, the preload in the front shock is a lot more than the rear. (Edit: whoops, typo) There is barely any preload on the rear shock.
Both:
Internal ESCV stop begins engaging 2" from bottom of stroke. It is not jarring, just engages and gradually increases pressure until bottom of stroke. You can compress it with your body weight so this isn't really a traditional "bump stop" imo, kinda neat.
On the top end you can't really tell there is an ESCV valve in there, just like the top one I suspect it just changes the shock damper rate when dynamically moving.
Top bump stop, there is another forum thread, but it's 3.5" (Front) 4" (Rear) rubber/plastic for reference.
Ford Bronco Low CG, max articulation, and biggest tire size without interference? 1673229146280

Front:
Total Coilover length from top plate not bolts: 23"
Preloaded Spring Length: 14"
Ford Bronco Low CG, max articulation, and biggest tire size without interference? 1673228871146

Un-loaded spring length: 17"
Ford Bronco Low CG, max articulation, and biggest tire size without interference? 1673229181268

Rear:
Total Coilover length from top plate not bolts: 26"
Preloaded Spring Length: 18"
Ford Bronco Low CG, max articulation, and biggest tire size without interference? 1673229338399

Un-loaded spring length: 20"
No image (TBD)

Badlands conversion
I was able to get the front suspension on today, 1.25" perch collars and bump stops that have been trimmed an inch. Ride height at the front fender is level with back end sasquatch at 39.5". This ended up being perfect as I am level with the sasquatch rear end with a badlands shocks.
I attempted the back but without a lift I am going to have to get some help. 27mm bolt is no joke when you can't get a lever under the car to break it loose.
Rear shock will have the 1.25" perch collars and a half inch spacer on the top to accommodate the difference plus get me a tad bit of lift. Rear is at and angle so a static 1.25 needs a tad more to get to correct height I think.

Ok so the rear badlands shock with a 1.25" perch and a 1/2" top spacer is now back to the high riser shock that comes with the sasquatch.

I will be testing the squish and clearance this weekend, but I don't think it's going to be an issue, looking back at some photos I think the stock bump stops and travel were entirely overkill on fords part (As others have noticed as well.)

At this time I am going to end this, I have other mods I'd like to make to my truck and others have measured the sasquatch suspension in the main bilstein thread.

I would suggest to those that are converting or adding 35" to a badlands non-squatch, the leveling kit perch kit, when placed on the front AND rear will compensate for a 35" tire easily, and it will keep the front back heights the same. (The one that everyone seems to be selling, 1.25".) It doesn't hurt to add another 1/2 inch spacer to the rear if you want to maintain the rear being higher then the front. (Also, if you don't have a lift, it's going to be a bear getting that nut loose on the rear.) Also, trim the bump stops at your own risk, I took an inch off the badlands bumpstops, and for MY TRUCK that is fine, but everyone has different mods/weights/etc, so make sure you check your clearances.
 
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brtd

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Following. I appreciate all of the information gathered in this one thread. A bit of needle in the haystack.
 

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sfonteno

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https://www.bajakits.com/i-31570316-2021-ford-bronco-3-prerunner-kit.html?ref=category:1459200

Well hello there.....

So I am seeing long travel arms and upgraded axles for the IFS? Which is also interesting again that they are pairing this with a shorter travel shock, but that may be to limit the extended geometry so you don't need straps. Shorter travel, but more effective travel since the lower arms are 3 inches wider.

If this ever goes on sale I may have to buy it and some straps to go with the Bilsteins I bought.
 

Tex

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https://www.bajakits.com/i-31570316-2021-ford-bronco-3-prerunner-kit.html?ref=category:1459200

Well hello there.....

So I am seeing long travel arms and upgraded axles for the IFS? Which is also interesting again that they are pairing this with a shorter travel shock, but that may be to limit the extended geometry so you don't need straps. Shorter travel, but more effective travel since the lower arms are 3 inches wider.

If this ever goes on sale I may have to buy it and some straps to go with the Bilsteins I bought.
Once you change the geometry of the a-arms themselves (in this case by making them longer), shock travel and wheel travel measurements aren't an apples to apples comparison to stock anymore. What I can't find out about this kit is if the Kings used are the same exact shock specs that already bolt on to the Bronco...I'm assuming they are, but it's possible that King has made a longer travel shock for these guys (would be great if they did). Generally you go longer with the a-arms for two reasons, to alleviate binding from the axle/tie rods/ball joints etc. in order to net more travel at the wheel, and also to add room for longer shocks (couple this with a higher shock tower and you technically have a long travel suspension). Using short travel shocks on a +3 kit sounds like a lot of potential wheel travel thrown away, and 11" of wheel travel isn't really something to write home about for extended a-arms. It's entirely possible that this kit could get more travel with nothing more than a better shock option, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Also, it's -always- a good idea to use straps when you wheel, even if you're running stock shocks. With a stock setup it's not so much to prevent overextension and binding of components, but rather to save the shock itself. There's a lot of repeated force hammering away on the inside of the shock and eventually it'll fail. Straps are essentially bump stops that work in the other direction. I noticed quite a bit of unhappy shock sounds with mine running over whoops in the sand. Hitting full extension doesn't feel healthy at all on the Bronco, so straps are definitely on the radar.
 

mpeugeot

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Once you change the geometry of the a-arms themselves (in this case by making them longer), shock travel and wheel travel measurements aren't an apples to apples comparison to stock anymore. What I can't find out about this kit is if the Kings used are the same exact shock specs that already bolt on to the Bronco...I'm assuming they are, but it's possible that King has made a longer travel shock for these guys (would be great if they did). Generally you go longer with the a-arms for two reasons, to alleviate binding from the axle/tie rods/ball joints etc. in order to net more travel at the wheel, and also to add room for longer shocks (couple this with a higher shock tower and you technically have a long travel suspension). Using short travel shocks on a +3 kit sounds like a lot of potential wheel travel thrown away, and 11" of wheel travel isn't really something to write home about for extended a-arms. It's entirely possible that this kit could get more travel with nothing more than a better shock option, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Also, it's -always- a good idea to use straps when you wheel, even if you're running stock shocks. With a stock setup it's not so much to prevent overextension and binding of components, but rather to save the shock itself. There's a lot of repeated force hammering away on the inside of the shock and eventually it'll fail. Straps are essentially bump stops that work in the other direction. I noticed quite a bit of unhappy shock sounds with mine running over whoops in the sand. Hitting full extension doesn't feel healthy at all on the Bronco, so straps are definitely on the radar.
Did you install your rack yet?
 

Tex

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Did you install your rack yet?
Think I'm going to attempt that tomorrow, actually. I'm in the middle of figuring out how to best re-align the steering to where it is currently, and my two best ideas are trimming a 2x4 to fit snug against the inside wheels to set toe in or clamping some 2x4's to the wheels at a precise position and measuring how far away the ends are from each other. I think either will get me close enough to drive until I get it to an alignment shop.
 

mpeugeot

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Think I'm going to attempt that tomorrow, actually. I'm in the middle of figuring out how to best re-align the steering to where it is currently, and my two best ideas are trimming a 2x4 to fit snug against the inside wheels to set toe in or clamping some 2x4's to the wheels at a precise position and measuring how far away the ends are from each other. I think either will get me close enough to drive until I get it to an alignment shop.
Come by my place tomorrow and you can borrow my alignment plates.
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