New article with a spin on the hardtop I hadn't heard

[indio22]

Back when I worked in a fishing lure factory we had some Canadian made stamping and punching dies that were 50 or 60 years old and still going strong with perfect alignment and easy maintenance. We had 10 year old Taiwanese dies that were almost completely worn out, difficult to maintain, poorly hardened and sticky. Nobody local would fix them so we had to be extra careful when using them and there wasn't enough extra material to make a proper corrective repair . I think the biggest issue with having tooling made overseas is that once you receive it, you're on your own. You're not going to ship tooling back to China or Taiwan or wherever, you're going to be stuck with living with the problem.

As someone with manufacturing experience, what do you or others with experience, think of the Bronco hardtop edge situation?

To me the edge situation doesn't seem so much an issue of COVID or flawed manufacturing equipment. Rather it seems like Ford/Webasto simply didn't have a proper finished sealed edge design. To me it seems a design fail.

I mean the recent talk by Ford, was of modification to the hardtop edges to have them properly rolled and sealed in terms of the finish. How was that not realized as a necessity much earlier in the design phase?

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[Blue's B6G]

https://www.wardsauto.com/vehicles/ford-bronco-roof-issue-recovering-covid

This is the first I heard about bending = leaking being main recall focus. Interesting..

The article cites one post on a website called “Bronco Bastards,” for this information.

 

[Carolina Jim]

Well given some of the recent news on increasing the thickness of the MIC top for MIC 2.0 resolves more than one issue apparently.

Its logical to think they are thickening back to the original spec Before sucking 5 lbs of weight out of the product this past spring.

I'm sure Ford corporate collaborates on these articles, because they ALL portray Ford as a victim... of bad luck, covid, or the boogey man. Never a mention that Ford designed this MIC top, spec'd the production equipment & materials...and were asleep at the wheel for a year while Webasto's new Plymouth plant twisted in the regulatory wind.

 

[Rayder]

As someone with manufacturing experience, what do you or others with experience, think of the Bronco hardtop edge situation?

To me the edge situation doesn't seem so much an issue of COVID or flawed manufacturing equipment. Rather it seems like Ford/Webasto simply didn't have a proper finished sealed edge design. To me it seems a design fail.

I mean the recent talk by Ford, was of modification to the hardtop edges to have them properly rolled and sealed in terms of the finish. How was that not realized as a necessity much earlier in the design phase?

The initial tops that were extensively tested and OK'd were made at a rapid prototype shop in Germany by Webasto and didn't exhibit any of these issues. For whatever reason that I'm not aware of, the actual tooling used in the factory could not reliably produce the panels according to spec. Which resulted in the exposed edges. The internal honeycomb structure is compressed cellulose because it's very thermally stable dimensionally to counteract the thermal instability of the plastic. However it's highly dimensionally unstable when exposed to moisture so the edges MUST be completely sealed.

 

[Wanted33]

I wonder if the new tooling was also made in Wuhan, or if Webasto found another source? Face it, there's a lot of things like this that are no longer available from any other place than China. We all drive for the cheapest items and then bitch when everything comes from China, but that's where manufacturing and tooling has been moving for years, to save a buck.

And when China produces most all of the batteries for the new electric vehicles they will have us right where they want us. Bent over, just waiting.........

Edit: We've already seen what one fire at a Chinese computer chip company has done to the entire auto manufacturing industry. Very sad. But, some of the blame also falls on the car makers for putting all their eggs in one basket.

 

[iamchewby]

is this sarcasm? I can't tell...

Webasto IS a German company...

Sorry, I'm usually very sarcastic, so I can see the confusion. But no, not sarcasm this time. Give it to the Germans, I'll pony up the extra cash to ensure quality from a race of people who get fined for breaking down on the roadway because "you should have known it wasn't going to make it".

 

[BCA]

https://www.wardsauto.com/vehicles/ford-bronco-roof-issue-recovering-covid

This is the first I heard about bending = leaking being main recall focus. Interesting..

Having worked for Ford and in the automotive supply industry, there were corners cut that lead to this debacle. Ford is typically very rigid in their program timing and milestones and making sure that tooling is capable before moving forward.

 

[vrtical]

Its logical to think they are thickening back to the original spec Before sucking 5 lbs of weight out of the product this past spring.

I'm sure Ford corporate collaborates on these articles, because they ALL portray Ford as a victim... of bad luck, covid, or the boogey man. Never a mention that Ford designed this MIC top, spec'd the production equipment & materials...and were asleep at the wheel for a year while Webasto's new Plymouth plant twisted in the regulatory wind.

agree I am a bit confused on some of the info since Ford owns the tool/dies for the top, but yet it was coming from China? That tells me Ford outsourced that also.

 

[Mattwings]

BuY aMeRiCan!

Toyota makes the most cars in America, while using the most parts sources from the US as well.

This is supposed to be my first "American" made car. My Subaru was made in Indiana, but my Ford will be mostly Mexican and Chinese...awesome.

 

[BroncoDymond88]

Wow, thanks for posting this, there is a lot of info that I had not seen before. Agree, this is what happens when you outsource, hopefully the US will use this as an opportunity to bring back manufacturing.

 

[Carolina Jim]

That tells me Ford outsourced that also

I'm beginning to wish Ford had outsourced the entire Bronco to Toyota

 

[1975U15]

The first hardtop is probably what brought covid to the US!

It's literally all Ford's fault.

No no no. The CCP says it went sent from the US in the form of frozen fish sticks. And guess WHO doesn't dismiss the claim.

 

[Lashedup]

The article cites one post on a website called “Bronco Bastards,” for this information.

Quoting this because it is important. The roof bending claim in the article is attributed to a website called Bronco Bastards - not Ford employees.

 

[indio22]

The initial tops that were extensively tested and OK'd were made at a rapid prototype shop in Germany by Webasto and didn't exhibit any of these issues. For whatever reason that I'm not aware of, the actual tooling used in the factory could not reliably produce the panels according to spec. Which resulted in the exposed edges. The internal honeycomb structure is compressed cellulose because it's very thermally stable dimensionally to counteract the thermal instability of the plastic. However it's highly dimensionally unstable when exposed to moisture so the edges MUST be completely sealed.

I'd like a good closeup look at those initial top edges. Because on the final product, it doesn't appear there was any rolling/sealing of certain edges. It's not like on the final product we can see an attempt at rolled edges that didn't quite take, but more like no rolled edges at all. And that is odd.

 

[edgeflyer]

BuY aMeRiCan!

Toyota makes the most cars in America, while using the most parts sources from the US as well.

This is supposed to be my first "American" made car. My Subaru was made in Indiana, but my Ford will be mostly Mexican and Chinese...awesome.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure only toyota knows the truth to that stat. Toyota proudly displays made in china on many of their parts.

If toyota is good at one thing, it is company image. Although as a mechanic I disagree with the toyota quality thing. There was a time a few decades ago when the current generation of toyota vehicles were designed. They went through the worst recall debacle in automotive history. The engines people think are so great were blowing head gaskets, leaking, drinking oil, brake systems failing and toyota having no answer, leaf springs breaking on the freeway. I had to weld the door back on my mons sienna cause it literally started falling off. They fail to innovate for fear of going through teething problem publicly. I'll take a Ford with a few warrantable issue to be on the cusp of technology while paying the same price as an underwhelming toyota product.

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