Not a misanthrope...why I don't like major offroad events.

[Taltyman]

This made me reflect (I'm 75) of being a kid living in Texas and for vacation my dad loved to go to Colorado to the mountains. Sometimes just me and dad and sometimes the whole family. Dad would see a road that looked like it went up into the mountains and would say "let's try that road". Then we'd head up the mountain till the road ended or our 1958 Rambler station wagon couldn't go any farther. If it was just me and him we slept in the Rambler. With the whole family we would likely stay in a motel but most meals were cooked along the side of the road. Those days, no gps, just a map you might have picked up from a gas station. No cell phones. You got your water from the mountain stream. I miss those days. What really ticks me off now are all the Razors and motorcycle folks that just want to go as fast as they can on the trails. Now that we have the Braptor my wife is concerned with its width compared to our Rubi. Geesh.

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[TNcoupe]

I agree. Like you I remember the Tellico rides and all over the mountain at Monteagle in the late 90s and early 2000s. The most miserable I have been was with a group of about 20 of us and the lead guy had been partaking in some beverages and decided to whiskey throttle over a bad section and his entire RF assembly decided to depart. Ten minutes later, it came a monsoon for 3hrs. The entire trail was blocked and now its a running muddy river. Our group ride at Windrock was the right size. 3-5 is the best group rides.

 

[Jossman]

Bottom Line-BE Responsible + Respect the privilege or lose it!

 

[Canyon Coolers]

Any medium to larger off road event should be thinking in terms of a culture of stewardship. This might look like partnering with a non profit like Tread Lightly to organize some trail cleanup and improvements ahead of or after the main event.

For example we close shop and I pay my employees to do a project with Tread Lightly, and the local Forest Agencies right before OVerland West here in Flagstaff. KC Highlights also participates and I have seen the AZ Four Runner Club help as well. The local Forest agencies were beyond grateful. I happen to think this is invaluable and that clubs big and small need to at least consider these types of projects. We have fun doing it ourselves.

A strong culture then to my way of thinking is the ideal solution, otherwise it's permits and regulation or 'anything but closure'. This is probably in contrast to Blue Ribbon, but they do have an important role to play as well.

To the OP's point I paraphrase his position as 'stay small and your hard to hit'. Its a totally valid strategy, especially for less discovered areas, but other high profile places are already a target. It will take a multi prong approach to avoid where the issues of tral closure is headed.

 

[FstFrd00]

Our community events (trail rides, trail clean-ups, etc....) we usually set the ceiling at max of 15 rigs. I agree waiting 3 hours for a 400 ppl to go through an obstacle isn't fun

 

[BlueWaffle]

Part of our problem is our population.

There's.... way TF too many people.

How come green freaks never bring this up? Especially while wailing on about 'carbon footprints' and the importance of reducing ours..

I could drive a coal powered vehicle that burns a quart of oil a week and leaks coolant for the rest of my life and not have as bad of an impact on the environment as the prius owning vegan that lives in a mud hut and has 6 kids

 

[userdude]

Part of our problem is our population.

There's.... way TF too many people.

How come green freaks never bring this up? Especially while wailing on about 'carbon footprints' and the importance of reducing ours..

I could drive a coal powered vehicle that burns a quart of oil a week and leaks coolant for the rest of my life and not have as bad of an impact on the environment as the prius owning vegan that lives in a mud hut and has 6 kids

It might feel good to bash people you don't like or feel impinge on your wants and desires, but the point isn't valid. The vast majority of emissions come from commercial/industrial use. Like cement, which is very carbon intensive to produce and transport (cuz it's heavy). Anyhow, at least here in Texas, the only larger nuclear families I know of are religiously-oriented.

And still squinting to see how this has anything to do with this post.

 

[Snacktime]

I like both,

The big events when run right and on the right trail are very fun. This is also the most destructive style of event as I know people who only come out to break and spill oil(think KOH). The typical people are also more into the look offroading and not the actual aspect of offroading.

As far as small groups its pretty obvious I wheel with the same people regularly. Its nice to have a similar group of vehicles with similar mods and similar taste in trails. But you need to go to big events to find that 1 to 2 people that will run a harder trail.

It might feel good to bash people you don't like or feel impinge on your wants and desires, but the point isn't valid. The vast majority of emissions come from commercial/industrial use. Like cement, which is very carbon intensive to produce and transport (cuz it's heavy). Anyhow, at least here in Texas, the only larger nuclear families I know of are religiously-oriented.

And still squinting to see how this has anything to do with this post.

As a past Cement Plant Operator I find this extremely offensive. Its not the fuel, limestone is naturaly 40% carbon dioxide by weight. The amount of coal it took to off gas the limestone was nothing, also the process can be used to burn complex hydrocarbons with zero increase in toxic emissions.

 

[userdude]

As a past Cement Plant Operator I find this extremely offensive. Its not the fuel, limestone is naturaly 40% carbon dioxide by weight. The amount of coal it took to off gas the limestone was nothing, also the process can be used to burn complex hydrocarbons with zero increase in toxic emissions.

Offensive? Ok. If you want to be offended. I can't tell if you're saying it's contributing zero emissions since I'm not a cement operator, but the overall point is still, what does this have to do with this discussion?

Actually, are you saying the contributor is the CO2 in the limestone? Sure, ok. I didn't say anything about coal. Again, don't know why you're "extremely offended".

 

[BlueWaffle]

It might feel good to bash people you don't like or feel impinge on your wants and desires, but the point isn't valid. The vast majority of emissions come from commercial/industrial use. Like cement, which is very carbon intensive to produce and transport (cuz it's heavy). Anyhow, at least here in Texas, the only larger nuclear families I know of are religiously-oriented.

And still squinting to see how this has anything to do with this post.

Wasn't bashing anyone lol.. just pondering out loud. I don't care how many children someone has, that's not my business.

Boil it down far enough... and people = emissions. Without our ridiculous population.. there wouldn't be a need for the ridiculous amount of industrial pollution we create.


An individual can not reduce their carbon footprint enough to offset their creation of MORE carbon footprints.. extremely valid point. I apologize that it's got you right ruffled.

My comment of our population being part of the problem as well, in regards to the topic at hand.. extremely valid.

 

[userdude]

Wasn't bashing anyone lol.. just pondering out loud. I don't care how many children someone has, that's not my business.

Boil it down far enough... and people = emissions. Without our ridiculous population.. there wouldn't be a need for the ridiculous amount of industrial pollution we create.


An individual can not reduce their carbon footprint enough to offset their creation of MORE carbon footprints.. extremely valid point. I apologize that it's got you right ruffled.

My comment of our population being part of the problem as well, in regards to the topic at hand.. extremely valid.

It's silly to create a ridiculous straw man to make a point that makes little sense in the context of crowded off road events. I guess we need less babies (worldwide? or just here?), but I digress. I appreciate you disagree. Certainly not worth an argument, so cheers and no worries.

 

[Snacktime]

Offensive? Ok. If you want to be offended. I can't tell if you're saying it's contributing zero emissions since I'm not a cement operator, but the overall point is still, what does this have to do with this discussion?

Actually, are you saying the contributor is the CO2 in the limestone? Sure, ok. I didn't say anything about coal. Again, don't know why you're "extremely offended".

40% of limestone weight goes out the stack as CO2(which is 85-90% of the emissions), the fuel is 10-15% of the stack emission CO2. I am offended because cement is one of the cleanest processes if done correctly(Texas doesn't care about down wind so your screwed).

By extremely offended I will say and move on. Damn natural gas hippies taking my coal away.

 

[userdude]

40% of limestone weight goes out the stack as CO2(which is 85-90% of the emissions), the fuel is 10-15% of the stack emission CO2. I am offended because cement is one of the cleanest processes if done correctly(Texas doesn't care about down wind so your screwed).

By extremely offended I will say and move on. Damn natural gas hippies taking my coal away.

My understanding, mostly from sources like The Economist and The Atlantic etc. since that's the kind of analytical news I consume, is that it's mostly an issue in other parts of the world, like BRIC states. Especially China, India and Brazil, where there's little to no control.

Anyhow, thanks for the clarification.

(I do have a tenuous link to the industry: My old roommate's dad was a top seller for an industrial parts company back in the 50's/60's and a guy he was friends or worked with left to start a little company that would produce cement or concrete (whichever was new at the time). That company went on to become the largest company in that sector (I can't recall if it was Cemex or another, it started in Texas and is now out of Mexico and elsewhere). He declined investing in the company and stayed at his job, and apparently never got over losing that opportunity. Edit: It was Redimix.)

 

[Obeh4ve]

The overcrowding will only get worse as Congress gives itself more power to sell off Public Lands. Sooner or later you'll be seeing; Welcome to Comcast Yellowstone National Park. https://www.outdooralliance.org/blo...use-rules-package-contains-giveaway-provision

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

So @Valhalla , you are essentially saying this is bad and eventually causes undesired restrictions:

I agree with you.

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