Raptor available

[Wolfeman]

Prices will come down on even the Raptors at some point. There will always be those that pay the "gotta have it first" tax.

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[prov1ml23]

Thats more in line because the dealer to dealer auction prices were around 105k about two weeks ago. its still 25k ADM range. I think the current perception from the outside looking in buyers pool is hovering at 100k and they will move at 95k all day long at the moment for sure. This happens all the time, dealers just let them sit in the showroom to draw customers then just sell them whenever until the next new thing is out there.

I think we will see prices move on all trim levels.....Honestly, I would be driving a Wildtrak right now had my local dealer been willing to come off his whore house price on the Wildtrak! He wouldn't budge from $17k ADM. I followed it fairly closely for a week. It got lowered in $500 increments 3 times. Now, all of a sudden today he called me and said the manager would be willing to go $10k over MSRP. I said, "sorry, too late!" I'll be so much happier with a Raptor anyway....

 

[prov1ml23]

And yes, I'm well aware that I paid way more ADM and overall for the Raptor, BUT I was seeing Wildtrak prices all over the country with only $7500-$10k ADM. That being the case, I wasn't going pay $17k ADM just because it was close. I wasn't seeing any Raptors available a few days ago in the neighborhood of $102k so I feel good about my purchase as of right now....

 

[VNVET]

Don’t understand the problem here. If you have the money and want it, then buy it. If you don’t then buy something that you can afford. They make a lot of vehicles that I’m sure will make you happy financially.

 

[66Fan]

This whole pricing discussion reminds me of one of my favorite jokes:


One day a boy comes home from school and says, "Dad I need to know the meaning of hypothetically and realistically for school."

The father replies, "Go ask your mother if she would sleep with a man for 1 million dollars."

The little boy goes and asks and, sure enough, she says yes.

His dad says, "Okay, now go ask your sister if she would sleep with a man for a million dollars." He does and, sure enough, she says yes.

So the father says, you see son hypothetically we are sitting on 2 million dollars but realistically we are living with a couple of whores."

 

[Andrewjn220]

The fact you are willing to pay any ADM at all is part of the reason you can’t find one. Because there’s always the guy willing to pay just a bit more adm than you, and someone else willing to pay a bit more than him, etc. Up until the point we are now.

Raptors are currently experiencing a bit of “sticky pricing”. Prices will eventually fall but is just lagging behind based on various factors. Just depends on how long you are willing to wait on it.

If you order one when you can order one plan on 1.5 to 2 plus years.

 

[350vudu]

If you order one when you can order one plan on 1.5 to 2 plus years.

K.

 

[John Auer]

You're not wrong but I think there's a major difference between a 'marginal' markup based on high demand of any product as opposed to 'insane' markups such as the $35K+ that we're seeing dealers attempt to grab. For me, it's worth a 5-10% markup as I think the Raptor will hold near that value over the 4-5 years but all these folks paying $110+ will have major regrets when they try to unload them in a year or two (unless they have $$$ burning holes in their pockets).

There's also that careful balance theses dealers have to work with. Do they make additional $10K now or do they hold on for another 2- 3 months hoping they find that one sap willing to pay additional $20K all the while dealing with inventory-related expenses. The faster they sell one now the better chance they have of increased allocations moving forward.

I highly suspect I won't end up finding a suitable deal before my Wildtrak is delivered (est Q1) but will be paying close attention to inventory and pricing. Severl dealers that I spoke with over a month ago keep calling me back week after week trying to sell a Raptor that's been sitting there. They could have sold it for $X some time ago...the fact that it's still sitting validates that these 'Market Values' are complete BS.

These vehicles are not fine wine, they don’t get better with age.

 

[Pkrpro19]

I understand what you are saying. My Raptor allocation fell into my lap at MSRP otherwise I would be keeping my Badsquatch.

I refuse to pay over MSRP because I don’t believe it’s a smart choice to do so. A 10% markup is insane to some people out there but you find it reasonable. Just as you find the 30-50% markup that others have paid insane. I do believe the insane markups have run their course as the ones willing to pay it have already done so. The dealers just haven’t caught on to that en masse yet.

I personally believe that Ford headquarters should raffle the allocations for specialty vehicles directly to consumers through their site and then force dealers to sign purchase agreements on price before the customers allocation can be moved to that dealership so there are no surprises. Both parties have already come to an agreement. This would also shift the power into consumers hands as dealerships not willing to sign beforehand will just miss out.

Seems the only people who would be against the raffle would just be those with F U money as it levels the field on who can actually purchase. I mean that is if Ford actually does care about customers purchasing these vehicles at MSRP. I don’t think they do lol.

Do you think Samsung, Vizio, Apple, HP, Dell, grocery stores, etc.... should do the same thing? You have no problem paying 1000% plus markups on these items on a daily basis. I just find it insane that we try to dictate how a business conducts their business. It's free market enterprise, either you can afford or you cannot. Us bitching or complaining is 100% unless and pointless. BTW, I just purchase my GT today at $5k over MSRP, I didn't like it but I negotiated a free 84m 100k mile Ford Premium Care Warranty and free 84m recommended maintenance to be included due to $5k markup. I paid for the 84m unlimited tire and wheel coverage including cosmetic repairs ($625). It was a win win for me because I was going to buy them anyways.

OTD I was $100,285 (incl- taxes, tag, and dealer fee)for a 2023 Bronco Raptor, lux pkg, blue/orange suede seats, code orange seat belts, carbon fiber pkg, upgraded beadlocks, Raptor all-weather mats, 2 row roof panel storage bag in beautiful Code Orange exterior paint (no graphics).

 

[350vudu]

Do you think Samsung, Vizio, Apple, HP, Dell, grocery stores, etc.... should do the same thing? You have no problem paying 1000% plus markups on these items on a daily basis. I just find it insane that we try to dictate how a business conducts their business. It's free market enterprise, either you can afford or you cannot. Us bitching or complaining is 100% unless and pointless. BTW, I just purchase my GT today at $5k over MSRP, I didn't like it but I negotiated a free 84m 100k mile Ford Premium Care Warranty and free 84m recommended maintenance to be included due to $5k markup. I paid for the 84m unlimited tire and wheel coverage including cosmetic repairs ($625). It was a win win for me because I was going to buy them anyways.

OTD I was $100,285 (incl- taxes, tag, and dealer fee)for a 2023 Bronco Raptor, lux pkg, blue/orange suede seats, code orange seat belts, carbon fiber pkg, upgraded beadlocks, Raptor all-weather mats, 2 row roof panel storage bag in beautiful Code Orange exterior paint (no graphics).

K.

 

[Pkrpro19]

They are worth MSRP. Because a dealer wants to make more doesn't mean they're worth more. So if I told you my house is worth 30% more, folks would pay that? I have a hard time understanding the economics of folks. I guess that's why most of this country lives pay check to pay check.

You have a hard time understanding economics period. The new car value is driven primarily from the pre-owned book values and MMR values. Addendums are there not for dealerships to steal money but to keep new vehicle prices in line with current pre-owned values. MMR values are $20k-$30k more than MSRP on 22MY and 23MY Bronco Raptors. If you were so lucky to find one at MSRP of $80k and a dealership said they would pay you $105k for it; would you sell it? 99% of the people would instantly because its an easy $25k flip. That said dealer would list it for $110k or more... MMR values support this.

Moral of the story... No pre-owned vehicle of same year, make and model should be worth more than a new one, hence the addendums. Ford gives the dealerships the ability to adjust pricing accordingly based on market trends. The Monroney sticker is to show you a list of options and a "SUGGESTED" retail price. Key word is, suggested.

 

[FLSTFI Dave]

You have a hard time understanding economics period. The new car value is driven primarily from the pre-owned book values and MMR values. Addendums are there not for dealerships to steal money but to keep new vehicle prices in line with current pre-owned values. MMR values are $20k-$30k more than MSRP on 22MY and 23MY Bronco Raptors. If you were so lucky to find one at MSRP of $80k and a dealership said they would pay you $105k for it; would you sell it? 99% of the people would instantly because its an easy $25k flip. That said dealer would list it for $110k or more... MMR values support this.

Moral of the story... No pre-owned vehicle of same year, make and model should be worth more than a new one, hence the addendums. Ford gives the dealerships the ability to adjust pricing accordingly based on market trends. The Monroney sticker is to show you a list of options and a "SUGGESTED" retail price. Key word is, suggested.

Glad the good dealers in my area do not follow your logic. We have a few dealers around here that sell at MSRP even though the used is going for more. One of the five Ford dealers is selling at MSRP, Range Rover is at MSRP, one Jeep dealer is at MSRP. All are family owned, and as Sales manger said, when things get back to normal, the customer will remember who screwed them and who treated them right. Got my wife's Grand Cherokee at 2500 under MSRP and my Raptor at MSRP. Range Rover was going to Sell me a Defender at MSRP, but a 8 month wait.

I have never paid over MSRP, I understand economics well. I have driven many Cars that were selling with ADM's on them. Yet I was patient and was able to buy with out paying it.

 

[Hdscreens]

In all this I wonder what the actual salesperson gets out of it? If we say 25k over sticker is the average does salesperson only make the same amount as a vehicle without ADM or do they make an extra 1k or closer to 5k more?

In the last two years with shortage of workers and shortage of supplies, I’m sure we could all claim an added market adjustment for our labor or goods and charge 30-50% more. Hell, I think even retirees could say “there’s a shortage of retirees, pay me 30-50% more on my pension funds”.

Any vehicle in the 100k range approaches millionaire status. If I literally only had one million dollars sitting in bank account and with current Braptor ADM‘s that vehicle would at least be costing me 10% of my net worth. Sure, some say finance which would add a high % more to those costs but it’s still going to costs 10% of net worth either short or long term.

 

[John Auer]

Do you think Samsung, Vizio, Apple, HP, Dell, grocery stores, etc.... should do the same thing? You have no problem paying 1000% plus markups on these items on a daily basis. I just find it insane that we try to dictate how a business conducts their business. It's free market enterprise, either you can afford or you cannot. Us bitching or complaining is 100% unless and pointless. BTW, I just purchase my GT today at $5k over MSRP, I didn't like it but I negotiated a free 84m 100k mile Ford Premium Care Warranty and free 84m recommended maintenance to be included due to $5k markup. I paid for the 84m unlimited tire and wheel coverage including cosmetic repairs ($625). It was a win win for me because I was going to buy them anyways.

OTD I was $100,285 (incl- taxes, tag, and dealer fee)for a 2023 Bronco Raptor, lux pkg, blue/orange suede seats, code orange seat belts, carbon fiber pkg, upgraded beadlocks, Raptor all-weather mats, 2 row roof panel storage bag in beautiful Code Orange exterior paint (no graphics).

As an advocate of free enterprise, I would like to see the OEM’s be able to sell their products any way they choose, direct or through dealers. Dealers should insist that the vehicles be sold at a set price, so the OEM can’t under cut the dealers. Customers should be free to choose how they purchase and take delivery of their vehicles, just like any other product. Some will prefer buying online, others may want more guidance from a dealer. Some may order online and take delivery from a dealer. Others may never want to step into car showroom. I think OEM’s are trying to figure out how to replicate Tesla’s business model. I hope they’re successful. This is a continuation of the online/brick and mortar battle that has been going on for years. Customers and businesses need more freedom to choose.

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