Raptor Tailgate Hinges installed with Hammerbilt Bracket

[JediMcMuffin]

I have another wrinkle to ponder, lets assume you park at an incline, or off camber and open the tailgate. How would the load be applied? (Assuming you don't just let it swing open with and get momentum involved)

I had my had my tailgate fail at a United by Bronco event while opening it at an incline with about a 30lb load on top of the stock 35's while on trail. It now needs to be lifted to reach the latch. No external indications of bent sheet metal or hinges. Currently at the dealership..

Sounds like a reinforcement won't fix that next time, and need to be more mindful of only opening on the level...

Was that just a couple rotopax? strapped to the spare? i mean, just wow.

I too feel like I want to wait until hinge replacements are readily orderable.

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[Inlinejohn]

That would introduce twist at the hinges and if we assume the hinge pins are mega strong AND we assume the connection to body is mega strong then I’d expect the tailgate to twist about the hinges and buckle. So these reinforcement plates everyone is doing should help. The issue I have is are those hinge pins and connection to body truly mega strong

 

[lmarchetti]

Was that just a couple rotopax? strapped to the spare? i mean, just wow.

I too feel like I want to wait until hinge replacements are readily orderable.

4Maxtrax mini and a rotopax. Came out to right under the 135 lbs max load, so I thought I was safe. I theorize opening it at that angle or metal fatigue did it in after a little over a year or so of running that setup.

 

[broncorik]

That would introduce twist at the hinges and if we assume the hinge pins are mega strong AND we assume the connection to body is mega strong then I’d expect the tailgate to twist about the hinges and buckle. So these reinforcement plates everyone is doing should help. The issue I have is are those hinge pins and connection to body truly mega strong

The hinge pins in the OEM hinges or the Raptor hinges are the least of the worry...they are way stronger than the hinges themselves. To keep the door from swinging past 90 degrees is the tricky part... The OEM for damper does a good job of controlling movement in both directions but it does allow the door to open to about 120°. That's not a big deal unless you have a bunch of stuff hanging off the tailgate that could smash into your pillar or the tail light. There is a strut that would allow it to open to only 90°, but the problem with the strut is it's gas charged and it'll fling the door open and even though it stops in 90° if the door gets momentum it will definitely put stress on the mounting points for the strut. I did find one that's about 46 PSI versus 85 PSI that I was initially running in the strut, but the only company I know of that makes an actual limiter is RTR and that bolts beneath the OEM strut. The problem with that design is that many people who run aftermarket bumpers have a taller surface area that could potentially hit that limiter. A hinge with a limiter built-in would be great, but even then, swing out a heavy tailgate with uncontrolled movement or even dampen movement in a wind or on a hill could then just transfer all the load from the hinge that stopped your movement and easily buckle the sheet metal on the rear pillar. The sheet metal in that pillar just isn't that robust. It all boils down to not letting anybody else but yourself open your tailgate and do anything nutty.

 

[Rick Astley]

That would introduce twist at the hinges and if we assume the hinge pins are mega strong AND we assume the connection to body is mega strong then I’d expect the tailgate to twist about the hinges and buckle. So these reinforcement plates everyone is doing should help. The issue I have is are those hinge pins and connection to body truly mega strong

The roll pins are hardened high carbon 420 stainless spring steel. This is a known material and not some made-up "mystery meat".

No assumptions need to be made as to the strength of a hardened roll pin.

Using Vickers hardness scale, the roll pin used on Bronco should achieve a Vickers of over 800. Netting somewhere near 130,000 psi shear strength.

Or in the vernacular: the roll pins used by Ford (and Jeep) are so strong they would take hundreds of thousands of pounds of force to shear the roll pin and a massive amount of force to bend one. The cast steel brackets will break wellllllllll before the roll pin even thinks about budging.

The hinges are vastly more ductile than the roll pin. This is also why it's abso-friken-hilarious that @IAG Performance is seeking to use cast aluminum for their tailgate brace. Cast aluminum is so ductile that it makes no sense to use it for the application of a tailgate brace, especially one utilizing roll pins for their connection point. Oh, it will look cool. And it will fail.

 

[broncorik]

The roll pins are hardened high carbon 420 stainless spring steel. This is a known material and not some made-up "mystery meat".

No assumptions need to be made as to the strength of a hardened roll pin.

Using Vickers hardness scale, the roll pin used on Bronco should achieve a Vickers of over 800. Netting somewhere near 130,000 psi shear strength.

Or in the vernacular: the roll pins used by Ford (and Jeep) are so strong they would take hundreds of thousands of pounds of force to shear the roll pin and a massive amount of force to bend one. The cast steel brackets will break wellllllllll before the roll pin even thinks about budging.

The hinges are vastly more ductile than the roll pin. This is also why it's abso-friken-hilarious that @IAG Performance is seeking to use cast aluminum for their tailgate brace. Cast aluminum is so ductile that it makes no sense to use it for the application of a tailgate brace, especially one utilizing roll pins for their connection point. Oh, it will look cool. And it will fail.

Agree %...all these forum members diligently waiting for that aluminum tailgate "brace" to come out are going to quickly realize that they would have been much better off choosing something that was not made out of aluminum.

 

[broncorik]

4Maxtrax mini and a rotopax. Came out to right under the 135 lbs max load, so I thought I was safe. I theorize opening it at that angle or metal fatigue did it in after a little over a year or so of running that setup.

If that is the stock SAS rim/tire combo that is about 90...4 MaxTrax = 30, Rotopax is 4, 2.5 gallons of gas is 15, so 139...and whatever mounts used to attach the Rotopax and MaxTrax must weigh in at at least 10? You must be at at least in the 150 ballpark wet and I can image that would create some tailgate havoc.

 

[Mc1guil]

And this is why I upgraded to the raptor hinges and the HB brace. The only work you need to do is a good alignment job to ensure it’s fit and flush

 

[Rick Astley]

Agree %...all these forum members diligently waiting for that aluminum tailgate "brace" to come out are going to quickly realize that they would have been much better off choosing something that was not made out of jello.

Corrected for you.

 

[Inlinejohn]

@broncorik @Rick Astley

Agree with both points. Even though a concern of the gate swinging open to bash into something is an issue but a side issue. It would be nice to fully understand FORDs limited tailgate load of 130lb. Is that to prevent tailgate buckling? If so, then these reinforcement plates are a pretty good fix. I would agree don't add anything cast back there but you could design an acceptable sheet aluminum version...just a little thicker than steel or add some extra reinforcing ribs/gussets. Not sure this would be lighter when all done and likely not cheaper than steel.

So if we assume/know the hinge pins are mega strong as Rick has said and we assume the hinge to body joint is mega strong, then I'm onboard with these plates and let the best one win!!!

 

[lmarchetti]

If that is the stock SAS rim/tire combo that is about 90...4 MaxTrax = 30, Rotopax is 4, 2.5 gallons of gas is 15, so 139...and whatever mounts used to attach the Rotopax and MaxTrax must weigh in at at least 10? You must be at at least in the 150 ballpark wet and I can image that would create some tailgate havoc.

These are my assumptions,
Stock Sas tire and carrier 87.5 lbs
Dry weight of rigging + maxtrax mini + Rotopax (39)
max wet weight 1.8 gallons on a 2 gal pack + rigging +maxtrax (54)

Total weight of 141.5 with max wet, 8.5 lbs (6%) over the load limit of 133. I have to drink about a gallon of water to get back to the max load limit.

Its right on the edge with those figures/assumptions above.

 

[Inlinejohn]

One more point to make "promoting" these reinforcement plates. A friend got rear-ended ever so slightly, hitting the spare. He did not have a reinforcement plate and it buckled his tailgate. The final estimate (new gate, paint, labor, parts) came to $10K. Now not 100% protection with these plates but I wonder....just wonder if they woulda helped???

 

[broncorik]

These are my assumptions,
Stock Sas tire and carrier 87.5 lbs
Dry weight of rigging + maxtrax mini + Rotopax (39)
max wet weight 1.8 gallons on a 2 gal pack + rigging +maxtrax (54)

Total weight of 141.5 with max wet, 8.5 lbs (6%) over the load limit of 133. I have to drink about a gallon of water to get back to the max load limit.

Its right on the edge with those figures/assumptions above.

Good thing the minis are lighter...but I'd be nervous even approaching the 133 limit (even on pavement...I imagine actually wheeling makes the load even more of an issue). I just realized (duh for me not paying attention to details)you are carrying water and not gas...even heavier...but worth the weight!

 

[swooshdave]

One more point to make "promoting" these reinforcement plates. A friend got rear-ended ever so slightly, hitting the spare. He did not have a reinforcement plate and it buckled his tailgate. The final estimate (new gate, paint, labor, parts) came to $10K. Now not 100% protection with these plates but I wonder....just wonder if they woulda helped???

I wonder what the actual cost before the insurance inflation?

 

[deesle]

I calculated my new spare tire (hutchinson + 37") will be about 130lbs alone. I also would certainly like to add fuel and top tire case. I am a bit apprehensive on the hinge-based solution. I even debated on just carrying the tire with no wheel on the roof as the spare.

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