Why does the auto start stop feature bother so many people?

[broncorik]

Not anymore.
I’ve had my own motorcycle shop, went to school to be and was ASE certified in the late 90’s out of high school, I’ve been a small engine mechanic, outboard mechanic, was one of the first down here in FL in my area to get on with the diesel hot rodding garbage in the early 2000’s with a nitrous powered 7.3 F350 (that needed turbo cool down time) , been around motors of just about every kind, turbos, just getting ready to supercharge a 4.0 Ford Ranger. And in today’s day and age, starters and turbos are the least of your worries. Did you happen to miss the article a few pages back of how a modern starters can withstand 500,000 cycles? Do the math on that one. And unless you run your engine hard has hell or under a full load for a long period of time, under boost, and then shut it down immediately after, you will never ever have to worry about your turbo either. Next time you’re on the interstate, bring up your boost gauge in the dash and see where it’s at. If you drive the vehicle like any other, you hardly build any boost to even heat the turbo. Go do some research.

It appears we have both been around the mechanic block...I had a similar path but got my certs in the early 80s (sigh...how time flies). Folks like us, because we have a mechanical background, probably won't do hard runs and then allow AS to shut the engine down...some others, however, will inevitably operate their vehicles in a less ideal fashion...and shut their engines down (or allow them to be shut down) at inopportune moments. Even if a "modern starter" can last 500,000 cycles, some of our 2.7s have grenaded at far less then that (and valve keepers are supposed to last a lot longer than they did)...quality control is not like it was decades ago with some vehicles. Point being that some of us get just as big of a laugh at the supposed "benefits" of the AS "feature." IMHO, the purchaser of the vehicle should have the option of shutting their engine off only if they want to do so. You may want to research turbos in more depth...it isn't just about the amount of boost reached during a run...spend some time around folks whose primarily occupation is turbo-related, and ask them what their evidence has confirmed. The beauty of having a choice is that you can simply leave your AS untouched if it doesn't bug you...but it clearly bugs some folks (and it has nothing to do with their starter or turbo concerns). Many people in hotter climates hate AS simply for the fact that the AC blows lukewarm during the AS...

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[mccurtain]

I may have missed the party on this thread but I would just like to chime in that I hated the auto start/stop feature in my last car, which was an automatic, but in my bronco, which is a manual, I’ve found that I don’t mind it at all.

 

[EOSeabee]

The auto-stop feature is complete virtue signaling. The original reason it was developed was gas savings. And has been demonstrably proven, the amount of fuel saved over a year is negligible. I actually HAVE had an issue with the delay to restart. The extra wear and tear on the engine may also be negligible at this point, but I see the auto stop as a complete waste of technology and a waste of the money we spend buying vehicles equipped with it.

 

[broncorik]

It appears we have both been around the mechanic block...I had a similar path but got my certs in the early 80s (sigh...how time flies). Folks like us, because we have a mechanical background, probably won't do hard runs and then allow AS to shut the engine down...some others, however, will inevitably operate their vehicles in a less ideal fashion...and shut their engines down (or allow them to be shut down) at inopportune moments. Even if a "modern starter" can last 500,000 cycles, some of our 2.7s have grenaded at far less then that (and valve keepers are supposed to last a lot longer than they did)...quality control is not like it was decades ago with some vehicles. Point being that some of us get just as big of a laugh at the supposed "benefits" of the AS "feature." IMHO, the purchaser of the vehicle should have the option of shutting their engine off only if they want to do so. You may want to research turbos in more depth...it isn't just about the amount of boost reached during a run...spend some time around folks whose primarily occupation is turbo-related, and ask them what their evidence has confirmed. The beauty of having a choice is that you can simply leave your AS untouched if it doesn't bug you...but it clearly bugs some folks (and it has nothing to do with their starter or turbo concerns). Many people in hotter climates hate AS simply for the fact that the AC blows lukewarm during the AS...

Some research...from a Federal Mogul bearing expert:

Disadvantages of stop-start technology:
Does stop-start wear out my engine?
“A normal car without automatic stop-start can be expected to go through up to 50,000 stop-start events during its lifetime,” says Gerhard Arnold, who is responsible for bearing design at Federal Mogul.
“But with automatic stop-start being activated every time the car comes to a standstill, the figure rises dramatically, perhaps to as many as 500,000 stop-start cycles over the engine’s life.”
That’s a big jump and one that poses major challenges to the durability and life of the engine’s bearings.
A fundamental component of the engine and also one of the heaviest is the crankshaft. It’s supported as it spins by a number of precision ground journals along its length running in ‘plain’ main bearings (no ball bearings or rollers, just smooth metal). These are the main bearings and the effect is greater on the bearing at the back of the engine immediately adjacent to the starter motor.

When the engine is running, the crankshaft and main bearing surfaces don’t actually touch, but are separated by a super-thin film of oil, fed under pressure and pumped around the bearing surfaces by the action of the spinning crankshaft. This process is called ‘hydrodynamic lubrication’ but when the engine stops, the crank settles onto the bearing, the two metal surfaces coming into contact.

When the engine starts, there’s a point before the two surfaces become separated by the oil film called the ‘boundary condition’, where the crankshaft is spinning, but there’s metal-to-metal contact between the bearing surfaces.

This is when most wear takes place. Fitting stop-start means the boundary condition (and metal-to-metal contact) could exist perhaps 500,000 times in the life of the engine instead of 50,000 and normal bearings would wear out long before that.


....so unless Ford went with new bearings designed for the abuse, and unless the owner uses a really good oil, it will be tough to mitigate the extra wear...I'd rather replace a starter than bearings (or avoid either altogether and turn my AS off to rule that out as a potential wear factor).

What is the downside of having no AS, exactly? In traffic we all would still have the option of shutting our engines off if we WANT to even without it.

 

[Rjacks258]

This is obviously going to forever be a my dick is bigger than yours thread.

 

[Bellime]

I just find it annoying and installed the Autostop Eliminator. Works like a charm

 

[broncorik]

This is obviously going to forever be a my dick is bigger than yours thread.

Not sure what that has to do with it...but apparently that must be important to you for some reason. All I am trying to point out is that IMHO Ford should have given owners the option to keep our engines running as long as we'd like without having to press the magic button every time. I know they are limited in that because their hand is forced by EPA folks, so the option to turn that feature off seems pretty tempting. Additionally, there are many folks with way more knowledge regarding engineering that I have who have shared that the AS feature does in fact (because you mentioned research) contribute to more wear (especially on bearings) than not having that feature. I guess we both strayed from the actual topic, however...the initial question was "Why does the auto start stop feature bother so many people" (not "how big is your dick." I imagine some folks may be interested in comparing with you, but I just was trying to answer the actual question.

 

[Rjacks258]

Yes. i agreed many posts ago. We should have an option. My reply to you that started this back and forth was about turbos and starters I said “here we go….”
The dick comment is a metaphor.
Now there I go.

 

[broncorik]

Yes. i agreed many posts ago. We should have an option. My reply to you that started this back and forth was about turbos and starters I said “here we go….”
The dick comment is a metaphor.
Now there I go.

Got it...I am familiar with metaphors (but I think you meant "idiom"?). The "belly laugh" comment directed at those who believe AS can contribute to premature wear, however, and the suggestion that I do "research" (of which there is plenty that demonstrates that ANYTHING wears out faster with related use from...things like friction...just how physics works) suggests that being "right" (or at least feeling like you are) is important to you. So with that in mind, you win! Based on your expertise, the AS system has zero impact on turbos (even though a quick scan with a temperature gun suggests otherwise), bearings, starters, etc...and it was foolish of me (or anyone else, like the Federal Mogul guy who is responsible for designing bearings) to suggest the contrary.

 

[Rjacks258]

Gotcha

 

[Johnsde]

Honestly, it makes me uneasy to have my engine stop at a busy intersection waiting for the light, or at a drive-up window when I am waiting for service. I'm an old-schooler, and often shift into neutral and take my foot off the clutch. However, in my opinion it is not a big deal to just hit the button to turn it off if I'm in those situations.

 

[Johnsde]

For me, when the engine turns off at a stop it reminds me of my younger days when my older cars would stall at an intersection, putting me into a state of panic! Even though it starts right back up, for a brief moment I have flashbacks … PTSD I guess!

Exactly! When ever it happens, I get this instant rush of panic overwhelming me! Flashbacks to the 70's!

 

[Bronc69]

It has to be 100% be putting more wear and tear on the system and runs the starter.
Battery, starter, alternator, turbo etc.

My wife's X3 has it and so does my 911. As soon as I get in either of those vehicles they go into sport mode and the start-stop function is disabled. Both of these vehicles are turbos as well.

I haven't had to replace a starter in about 30 years. I had a 2000 VW Golf for 15 years and 240K miles with zero starter issues. I also had a 2006 BMW 330 with over 100K and had it for 10 years with zero issues. I don't want to start now.

 

[vzqhsg]

It’s 60,000 miles

And as far as the engineering goes.. well there goes that speculation.

Yep all good, but there have been bad engines that blew up, and many other issues with the engineering of the truck. If you read other info. about start stop all the above is nice, but there have been many issues and the engineering ain't perfect. Do what you want...it still is a pain, doesn't help that much with mileage, stuff wears out faster.

 

[Ducati1098]

Yep all good, but there have been bad engines that blew up, and many other issues with the engineering of the truck. If you read other info. about start stop all the above is nice, but there have been many issues and the engineering ain't perfect. Do what you want...it still is a pain, doesn't help that much with mileage, stuff wears out faster.

My auto start stop has been disabled since I picked up my bronco. I don’t like it any more than most people. Also I never claimed engineering was always 100% perfect lol

All I said was these things were clearly thought about and reinforced when designed. There is ZERO proof anywhere that just because a vehicle has auto start stop means you’ll be replacing anything sooner than any other vehicle without it.

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