74Weld Bronco Portals now available!

[Bored]

I have no experience. Plus that's a Raptor. I hear they have different fender flares... lol Anyhow, the point is he just didn't want bigger than 38's.

Also, the 74Weld portals are only 3.5" (and he kinda hedges a little bit). They advertise 3.8" but he's explained multiple times it's trickier on IFS. So I guess YMMV, as I was saying.

The portals are 3.5" of actual ground clearance gain, the other .38 is from the CV lift.

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[Bored]

that is true sometimes I forget... anyways 38s would seem very sufficient if you ask me.

Until a gladiator with 43's pulls up... ;D

 

[Bored]

My plan is similar. I already have 2" lift springs and a body lift. Have 40s mounted/balanced and ready to bolt on, so no turning back now! Going w/Cooper stt pro, for no reason other than I could get them, and I have a set in 37, and they are decent on road

We are fortunate to have several good tire options ;D

For size reference... here is a cropped pic of my wheel&tire combo sitting flush against the side of my brothers '23 4dr badlands sasquatch. It is basically the same size/arc as the flares.

Complete set ready for install day:

Off topic - do any of you know how the hell I can order OEM Marine Grade Vinyl in "Dark Space Gray" ('23/'24 Everglades I think)?

 

[Bmadda]

Same thing he told me... except this is where I feel rubbed... (double entendre intended) "Part of it was the body updates to get bigger tires"... What does that mean? Quinn has not provided any clarification on that.

Likely the JKS kit. There is some rule in the KOH rulebook that bans any mods to body mounts. Quinn and I discussed some of this at more length a while back, and I am of the opinion that my setup COULD run 42s if I wanted to push the envelope...however most tires that size, even if DOT approved, are barely streetable (Maxxis treps for instance). I think the 40s will be a good balance of offroad and onroad capability!

 

[5GENIDN]

Until a gladiator with 43's pulls up... ;D

Better be running at least 48's if he wants to match the clearance.... Even then I do not think he will quite match..... It is all about the clearance in my book.... Not total height.

 

[userdude]

Just came across this is in the backlog, definitely will be listening to it next.

https://bigrich.buzzsprout.com/1027501/13279711-quinn-pultz-at-74-weld-on-episode-173

 

[5GENIDN]

Just came across this is in the backlog, definitely will be listening to it next.

https://bigrich.buzzsprout.com/1027501/13279711-quinn-pultz-at-74-weld-on-episode-173

Introductions take a little while... but it is informative. Listened to that a few months back. It is another good one.

Have you been watching Quinn's educational series on you tube? He is a little stilted and uncomfortable still but getting better with each one he does. They are really informative though. I highly recommend them. discusses all the pros and cons of every choice and then explains his own choices and with the all necessary "why". He has put out three of them so far. He is putting out about one a week.

 

[Snacktime]

I wouldn't touch 40s without going full aftermarket drivetrain. I can't wait to see someone bind up with portals and puke a driveshaft or a transfer case. Really need to step back and look at the typical build to run 40s on a trail. 74Weld Portals do buy you some extra strength in the front but the rear is just more leverage.

Average 37s build
Hyrdo Assist
Chromoly axles
Aftermarket Drive Shafts

Average 40s build
Full Hydro steering
Built Dana 60s
Driveshafts
Atlas Transfer case
Trailer

Here I am waiting for chromoly rear axles before I go and regear. The Bronco aftermarket has kind of died. No real parts coming out, just the cosmetic stuff.

 

[5GENIDN]

I wouldn't touch 40s without going full aftermarket drivetrain. I can't wait to see someone bind up with portals and puke a driveshaft or a transfer case. Really need to step back and look at the typical build to run 40s on a trail. 74Weld Portals do buy you some extra strength in the front but the rear is just more leverage.

Average 37s build
Hyrdo Assist
Chromoly axles
Aftermarket Drive Shafts

Average 40s build
Full Hydro steering
Built Dana 60s
Driveshafts
Atlas Transfer case
Trailer

Here I am waiting for chromoly rear axles before I go and regear. The Bronco aftermarket has kind of died. No real parts coming out, just the cosmetic stuff.

I will disagree with you on this one Snack....

When you change the gears in the differential it actually places less stress (torque) on everything upstream. Less resistance in the transfer case, transmission, CVs and drive shaft right? Now that does not change any of the stress on the axle or anything down stream of those new gears.

BUT if you place your gear reduction down stream of the axle.... then it places less stress on everything up stream just like the differential gear change, the difference is that "upstream" now includes those axles. So theoretically the axles actually receive 22% less torque applied to them in the exact same conditions using the same size tires etc.....

Quinn is including a new set of axles with the portals, not because it needs to be strengthened (although this axle is stronger) he wants to maintain the 35 spline end so that he does not have to do all the R&D to replace the driven gear in the portal. Since the Portal housing also indexes into the axle housing the rear axle is now a full float as to the weaker design of a semi float. Only tortional forces, no weight loading, like the stock Ford semi float axle. I believe this design is considerably more robust than a stock D44.

Torque (essentially) is applied in both directions; from the motor to the ground but also from the ground to the motor. Without that resistance there is no stress.(minus mechanical inefficiencies). So "theoretically" to equal the torque stresses on the drive line when using a 35 inch tire (very simplified view but fairly close) you would have to go to a 43 inch tire. There is more going on that needs to be accounted for but that is actually a pretty close number.

I am very aware of how things have HAD to be built in the past when your very first gear reduction is in the differential. Nothing down stream was reduced. The tortional stresses go up exponentially down stream of the differential. Also the lower gear ratios in a differential require thinner teeth in the ring gear. At some point there is the law of diminishing returns and the ring gear tooth strength actually is compromised.

One thing you do not want portals for is fast driving. WAY WAY TOO MUCH UNSPRUNG WEIGHT. Now they are actually working in some of those situations.... antidotally think king of the hammers... They are running them fast... but I think they are probably a compromise. advantage in the rocks disadvantage in the woops....

If I were running fast in the desert I would prioritize articulation and go long arm. You also want width and length combined with low center of gravity. Well you want low center of gravity everywhere but especially at speed.

That being said I am concerned about the D44 housing. I think spinning an axle tube is the number one issue. To a lesser extent bending a housing.

And yes... The number one weakness in an IFS is the steering. Any significant off roading will require upgrades to the steering; portals or not. Even 35s fall into this category. The compromise in the IFS steering (any manufacturer) is how do you mass produce a cost effective steering rack? The problem is tolerancing. Building something to higher tolerances is expensive. So how do you do it cost effectively? You have to add in a lash adjustment. That requires bushings that have enough give to allow the lash to actually be adjusted. It is a compromise. The 74 Weld rack has NO lash adjustment. The tolerances are so close and so exact that it does not require any. that allows for considerably more bushing support. It is also why their rack is so damn expensive.

 

[Snacktime]

@5GENIDN

The engine and drivetrain will still put the same load through the system. Ignoring the gear reduction for the moment the larger tires will allow more load before they lose traction. Larger tires with more mass will have more inertia.

Now add back in the gear reduction taking load off the differential, but did this load magically disappear?

Mathematically I agree that they should reduce the load and be easier on the drive train. Realistically they cause axle shaft/cv failures and tend to add additional wear to the primary Driveline. I think this is more of a factor of the "Moment of Interia" traveling through the drivetrain.

I am not saying the issue is the portals, the tires will still cause damage even if geared to the moon.

Steering -You can't overcome the steering leverage with Hoss 3.0 because 30% is not the Hydro Assists. Hydro assist is adding 2000-4000lbs of additional force to the steering lol.

 

[5GENIDN]

The engine and drivetrain will still put the same load through the system. Ignoring the gear reduction for the moment the larger tires will allow more load before they lose traction. Larger tires with more mass will have more inertia.

Now add back in the gear reduction taking load off the differential, but did this load magically disappear? NO it does not disappear but you are dealing with it through a longer lever..... Think of a rock you are lifting with a leaver. a 4 foot leaver allows you to move a rock 6 inches with a 100 pound force over 2 feet. with an 8 foot lever you can still move that rock 6 inches but only using a 50 lb force but you have to apply it over 4 feet. Same amount of work force x distance you have just changed the distance and the amount of force.... That is all the gear is doing down stream of that axle. You are right the amount of momentum in that large tire is huge. But the torque that is placed back on the axle is 1.22 times smaller than it would have been without that gear reduction. (Not meaning to be condescending with the lever analogy I am only adding it for the benefit for others that might read this)

I will agree that inertia is going to be larger than the force of momentum generated by a 35 on a stock axle because the inertia of that larger tire is going to be larger than 1.22 times the inertia of the 35.... I should probably sit down and calculate that (but I need exact weights at distances and that weight is not evenly distributed based on its distance from the center of rotation and I do not readily have that information available to me. but I think we will find it well withing the safety factor designed into the axle. I think we have seen quite a bit of anecdotal evidence of that with this exact gear set that has been in field testing for 2 years now.

Mathematically I agree that they should reduce the load and be easier on the drive train. Realistically they cause axle shaft/cv failures and tend to add additional wear to the primary Driveline. I think this is more of a factor of the "Moment of Interia" traveling through the drivetrain. Where are you coming up with this? Do you have data that I have not seen? 40's without portals are not the same thing. The gear reduction downstream of the axle changes the entire equation.

I am not saying the issue is the portals, the tires will still cause damage even if geared to the moon.

Steering -You can't overcome the steering leverage with Hoss 3.0 because 30% is not the Hydro Assists. Hydro assist is adding 2000-4000lbs of additional force to the steering lol. Hydro and electric are entirely different animals. You may be right. Maybe that electric assist is not enough to handle the larger size.... Seems to be working on the beta test beds..... The rack itself though I would argue is about as bullet proof as it can be made to be (74 Weld rack). It does remain to be seen if the electric assist motor can hold up..... but we are only talking the motor.

 

[Snacktime]

@5GENIDN

NO it does not disappear but you are dealing with it through a longer lever..... Think of a rock you are lifting with a leaver. a 4 foot leaver allows you to move a rock 6 inches with a 100 pound force over 2 feet. with an 8 foot lever you can still move that rock 6 inches but only using a 50 lb force but you have to apply it over 4 feet. Same amount of work force x distance you have just changed the distance and the amount of force.... That is all the gear is doing down stream of that axle. You are right the amount of momentum in that large tire is huge. But the torque that is placed back on the axle is 1.22 times smaller than it would have been without that gear reduction. (Not meaning to be condescending with the lever analogy I am only adding it for the benefit for others that might read this)

I think this is is a good analogy. I have no issues with what your saying. I would just say the fulcrum of the lever is experiencing more force. What do you think the fulcrum point is in the portal, the bearings/gears in the actual portal? I believe that this force is still going to come through the system. Not saying its 1 to 1 as each bearing might absorb some of the energy dissipating through the system.

I will agree that inertia is going to be larger than the force of momentum generated by a 35 on a stock axle because the inertia of that larger tire is going to be larger than 1.22 times the inertia of the 35.... I should probably sit down and calculate that (but I need exact weights at distances and that weight is not evenly distributed based on its distance from the center of rotation and I do not readily have that information available to me. but I think we will find it well withing the safety factor designed into the axle. I think we have seen quite a bit of anecdotal evidence of that with this exact gear set that has been in field testing for 2 years now.

Yes the long term testing! I do believe the portals are actual pretty solid units. I am looking at when someone binds up a 40" tire the portals are essentially fixed. Your lever pretty much goes to infinity and beyond. I just see 40s making more force because they have extra leverage. This relates back to running a 40" tire on a Dana 44 vs a Dana 60. 74weld isn't hammering down on obstacles like BroncBozo. I am pretty sure in the wild we are going to get some people putting the right foot down at the wrong time. I am also sold that the failure point will be between the portals and the engine. Not like people are going to be buying portals to drive to the mall.

Where are you coming up with this? Do you have data that I have not seen? 40's without portals are not the same thing. The gear reduction downstream of the axle changes the entire equation.

I have been whoring around on the sxs forums, because they have lots of people on portals. Looking at potential future toys since I like to window shop.

 

[userdude]

74weld isn't hammering down on obstacles like BroncBozo.

Only that 74Weld is making rec versions of the race portals that are much more abused than what even BB could muster? I would assume they're bringing that knowledge to the rec version. I do think there'll be some weaknesses found (like the heim joint shear). But it's not like Quinn's a novice.

 

[5GENIDN]

@5GENIDN

NO it does not disappear but you are dealing with it through a longer lever..... Think of a rock you are lifting with a leaver. a 4 foot leaver allows you to move a rock 6 inches with a 100 pound force over 2 feet. with an 8 foot lever you can still move that rock 6 inches but only using a 50 lb force but you have to apply it over 4 feet. Same amount of work force x distance you have just changed the distance and the amount of force.... That is all the gear is doing down stream of that axle. You are right the amount of momentum in that large tire is huge. But the torque that is placed back on the axle is 1.22 times smaller than it would have been without that gear reduction. (Not meaning to be condescending with the lever analogy I am only adding it for the benefit for others that might read this)

I think this is is a good analogy. I have no issues with what your saying. I would just say the fulcrum of the lever is experiencing more force. What do you think the fulcrum point is in the portal, the bearings/gears in the actual portal? I believe that this force is still going to come through the system. Not saying its 1 to 1 as each bearing might absorb some of the energy dissipating through the system.

I will agree that inertia is going to be larger than the force of momentum generated by a 35 on a stock axle because the inertia of that larger tire is going to be larger than 1.22 times the inertia of the 35.... I should probably sit down and calculate that (but I need exact weights at distances and that weight is not evenly distributed based on its distance from the center of rotation and I do not readily have that information available to me. but I think we will find it well withing the safety factor designed into the axle. I think we have seen quite a bit of anecdotal evidence of that with this exact gear set that has been in field testing for 2 years now.

Yes the long term testing! I do believe the portals are actual pretty solid units. I am looking at when someone binds up a 40" tire the portals are essentially fixed. Your lever pretty much goes to infinity and beyond. I just see 40s making more force because they have extra leverage. This relates back to running a 40" tire on a Dana 44 vs a Dana 60. 74weld isn't hammering down on obstacles like BroncBozo. I am pretty sure in the wild we are going to get some people putting the right foot down at the wrong time. I am also sold that the failure point will be between the portals and the engine. Not like people are going to be buying portals to drive to the mall.

Where are you coming up with this? Do you have data that I have not seen? 40's without portals are not the same thing. The gear reduction downstream of the axle changes the entire equation.

I have been whoring around on the sxs forums, because they have lots of people on portals. Looking at potential future toys since I like to window shop.

Well Snack, you are a smart guy, I would be well advised to listen to you, and I am and will.... Right now I do not think it is going to be as big an issue as I am I perceiving that you are making it out to be. I do appreciate the concerns that you are raising though. In all probability it will not be a problem for me since I tend to drive similarly (style wise) to what you see in the 74 weld videos, just not as well. I spent a lot of years going through... I broke a part how do I strengthen that? Now I broke the next in line.... Next mod up..... This time I am old and do not want to go through the years of what's next.... For me this is going to the easy button..... No more worrying about what is next upgrade. My build this time should far exceed what I intend doing with it. I want to run the Boulder basin run. And I would like to get down to the Rubicon after my wife retires.

I will keep in mind what your concerns are. I really hope you are wrong.... But your reasoning is rational.

 

[userdude]

Well Snack, you are a smart guy, I would be well advised to listen to you, and I am and will.... Right now I do not think it is going to be as big an issue as I am I perceiving that you are making it out to be. I do appreciate the concerns that you are raising though. In all probability it will not be a problem for me since I tend to drive similarly (style wise) to what you see in the 74 weld videos, just not as well. I spent a lot of years going through... I broke a part how do I strengthen that? Now I broke the next in line.... Next mod up..... This time I am old and do not want to go through the years of what's next.... For me this is going to the easy button..... No more worrying about what is next upgrade. My build this time should far exceed what I intend doing with it. I want to run the Boulder basin run. And I would like to get down to the Rubicon after my wife retires.

I will keep in mind what your concerns are. I really hope you are wrong.... But your reasoning is rational.

I suspect what Snacktime has been referring to is hardcore rock crawling like Rubicon's Soup Bowl or Kelly Flats. Where you're wedging and crawling over things. I assume this is where the hydra assist is coming in. For this, yes, any Bronco is going to need hardening. For portals that are serving as extra clearance over rubble or boulder terrain, I don't know it's that dire (but my experience is very limited). Love seeing you guys discussing this, though.

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