Back End Breaking Loose too Easily in Snow/Ice? Is the "off road" display accurate for 4A? Grinding noise while sliding?

[LSW]

I have a 4 door '23 outer banks non-sasquatch with Cooper Discoverer Snow Claw 275/65r18 studed winter tires. This Bronco has the full time advanced 4x4 transfer case option. And to get this out of the way, no I've never driven a regular RWD pickup or Jeep at all, although I had a Mustang GT back in '05 and actually this bronco reminds me of its handling.

I'm coming most recently from a '17 Chevrolet Tahoe LS with 4wd/4 automatic transfer case, rear wheel drive. I realize, differently purposed vehicles, mall crawler glorified minivan on 'roids vs the Bronco which is an off road convertible with some inherent compromises that come with that.

I find in the Bronco, in 4 Auto (and to a lesser extent 4H), the rear end breaks loose when accelerating, or turning at speed on plowed/slippery roads surrprisingly easily compared to the Tahoe. I get it, drive like a granny in the winter, but even doing that, going slow, very ginger on the gas pedal, it doesn't take much for the bronco's back end to start sliding especially on slopes while turning or when starting from a standstill on a slippery surface. It is very manageable in 4H and I can deal with it in 4A, but it still makes me a bit nervous. 2H, for me, which I tried just as an experiment, even with the studded tires, is white knuckle scary in the Bronco if there are a lot of other cars around and lanes are tight, even being super ginger on the gas pedal. Also, the Bronco makes a loud grinding sound when sliding. I thought this was the traction control modulating the brakes but it does it even when the traction control is turned off. Is there any kind of damage occurring when this grinding noise happens?

I make no claims of being a good or even average driver, I am below average and bad, so I fully expect the "LERN 2 DRYVE!!!!!1!1!" remarks, but apples to apples why did the Tahoe *seem* to handle better on slippery surfaces? Weight? Is it the Tahoe's limited slip differential vs. the open/locking differential with traction control in the Bronco that sacrifices on-road slippery performance for off road performance with only 3 wheels potentially on the ground? I also have a bronco sport outer banks and hate to say it but it handles better on-road in winter than regular Bronco, unless the snow depth gets deep enough to make it a ground clearance battle. I live in Alaska (and have for a decade) so that happens.

Also, it seems in 4 auto all 4 wheels rermain driven all the time according to the "off road" display screen on the digital dash. The owners manual says this about slippery GOAT mode:

'Note: Depending on the four-wheel drive
mode selected when using slippery mode
on dry/hard pavement, your vehicle could
experience vibration, driveline bind up,
damage and potential excessive tire and
vehicle wear.'

I presume this statement references the possibility of selecting 4H/4L in slippery mode in regard to the possiblity of damage? Is the digital dash's "off road" indicator accurate or does it just default to showing all 4 wheels driven if you select 4 auto via the drive mode switch or a GOAT mode?

I plan to attend an off-rodeo and ask some of these questions but is there a definitive answer on whether or not 4 auto slippery exacerbates wear on the drivetrain in intermittent/mixed dry/slippery conditions, beyond normal, expected usage?

Anyway, I hate to say it but for a safety minded winter vehicle I don't think the Bronco is a top choice unless I'm doing something wrong with my drive and GOAT selections. That's probably not news to most of you but I'm not a hard core "car/truck guy". Was hoping this was not going to be the case because the newer Tahoes have bad ground clearance due to independendent rear suspension and the rear control arms hanging down absurdly low; don't like subarus for similar ground clearance reasons.

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[Scott R Nelson]

I would suspect your tires to be the biggest issue for loss of traction at the rear. And maybe how you're working the gas pedal.

You can leave it in 4A all the time without damaging the drivetrain. I generally use 4A on dirt and switch back to 2H on pavement, but when I forget to switch back it's no big deal.

The grinding noise comes from the brakes and maybe some other stuff trying to keep you from sliding. I think it's something more than normal traction control. When I'm really hustling on a dirt road so that I get mine sliding a bit it will do that, trying to keep me straight. In other words, it won't let me do what I actually want to do. I should probably learn how to disable that feature.

I don't have a great deal of advice here, other than suggest that you work at learning what causes it to do what you don't like and then learn how to not do that.

 

[Squatch]

Tires, wheelbase, track.

 

[Willub]

I have a 4 door '23 outer banks non-sasquatch with General Altimax Arctic Studded winter tires in size 255/70r18. This Bronco has the full time advanced 4x4 transfer case option. And to get this out of the way, no I've never driven a regular RWD pickup or Jeep at all, although I had a Mustang GT back in '05 and actually this bronco reminds me of its handling.

I'm coming most recently from a '17 Chevrolet Tahoe LS with 4wd/4 automatic transfer case, rear wheel drive. I realize, differently purposed vehicles, mall crawler glorified minivan on 'roids vs the Bronco which is an off road convertible with some inherent compromises that come with that.

I find in the Bronco, in 4 Auto (and to a lesser extent 4H), the rear end breaks loose when accelerating, or turning at speed on plowed/slippery roads surrprisingly easily compared to the Tahoe. I get it, drive like a granny in the winter, but even doing that, going slow, very ginger on the gas pedal, it doesn't take much for the bronco's back end to start sliding especially on slopes while turning or when starting from a standstill on a slippery surface. It is very manageable in 4H and I can deal with it in 4A, but it still makes me a bit nervous. 2H, for me, which I tried just as an experiment, even with the studded tires, is white knuckle scary in the Bronco if there are a lot of other cars around and lanes are tight, even being super ginger on the gas pedal. Also, the Bronco makes a loud grinding sound when sliding. I thought this was the traction control modulating the brakes but it does it even when the traction control is turned off. Is there any kind of damage occurring when this grinding noise happens?

I make no claims of being a good or even average driver, I am below average and bad, so I fully expect the "LERN 2 DRYVE!!!!!1!1!" remarks, but apples to apples why did the Tahoe *seem* to handle better on slippery surfaces? Weight? Is it the Tahoe's limited slip differential vs. the open/locking differential with traction control in the Bronco that sacrifices on-road slippery performance for off road performance with only 3 wheels potentially on the ground? I also have a bronco sport outer banks and hate to say it but it handles better on-road in winter than regular Bronco, unless the snow depth gets deep enough to make it a ground clearance battle. I live in Alaska (and have for a decade) so that happens.

Also, it seems in 4 auto all 4 wheels rermain driven all the time according to the "off road" display screen on the digital dash. The owners manual says this about slippery GOAT mode:
'Note: Depending on the four-wheel drive
mode selected when using slippery mode
on dry/hard pavement, your vehicle could
experience vibration, driveline bind up,
damage and potential excessive tire and
vehicle wear.'
I presume this statement references the possibility of selecting 4H/4L in slippery mode in regard to the possiblity of damage? Is the digital dash's "off road" indicator accurate or does it just default to showing all 4 wheels driven if you select 4 auto via the drive mode switch or a GOAT mode?

I plan to attend an off-rodeo and ask some of these questions but is there a definitive answer on whether or not 4 auto slippery exacerbates wear on the drivetrain in intermittent/mixed dry/slippery conditions, beyond normal, expected usage?

Anyway, I hate to say it but for a safety minded winter vehicle I don't think the Bronco is a top choice unless I'm doing something wrong with my drive and GOAT selections. That's probably not news to most of you but I'm not a hard core "car/truck guy". Was hoping this was not going to be the case because the newer Tahoes have bad ground clearance due to independendent rear suspension and the rear control arms hanging down absurdly low; don't like subarus for similar ground clearance reasons.

Tire pressures?

 

[AKBronc49]

My Sasquatch on studded Nokian Hakkapeliittas is fantastic, in the middle of my 3rd Alaskan winter. It drives and reacts exactly as I'd expect. Also the noise your hearing is the stability control trying to keep the vehicle straight in a slide.

 

[LSW]

Tire pressures?

35 +/- 2 psi , guess it might be worth a try running lower.

 

[LSW]

My Sasquatch on studded Nokian Hakkapeliittas is fantastic, in the middle of my 3rd Alaskan winter. It drives and reacts exactly as I'd expect. Also the noise your hearing is the stability control trying to keep the vehicle straight in a slide.

Thanks, maybe I will try the Hakkas when I wear these tires out. Good to know that it is the electronic stability control applying brakes when I hear the grinding, maybe I will experiment with turning it off, which if I understand the manual correctly can be done by pressing the traction control hero switch and holding for 5 seconds.

 

[Brian_B]

So I was up on some trails last weekend and it was my first time in snow with the Bronco.

I don't have snow tires on - just running MT Baja Legends. I was down at 25psi. Got up at some alititude and hit some snow - nothing terrible, a couple of inches.

I've done a lot of driving in snow with a pickup.

I do not have 4A. While out on the trails, I was in 4H - no problem. Bronco handled absolutely great, even though the MTs aren't a snow tire.

Got out on some pavement, and put it back in 2H. Still patches of snow here and here. In 2H, the Bronco was absolutely abysmal - the rear end kicked out worse than a pickup with no weight in the back. The back end would kick out almost violently when it would lose traction. Flipped back to 4H, and it was absolutely fantastic again.

It was like Jelkyl and Hyde.

 

[nabronco21]

I have a badlands non sasquatch and I think it does very well on slippery roads even with the stock bfg all terrains. As mentioned above the noise is the advance track trying to keep it straight for you but I'm not a fan of it because I actually like sliding around. If you press and hold the traction control button it will turn the advance track off and you won't hear the grinding noise.

 

[the poacher]

As you are running studded winter tires, I think we are safe to say it is not the tires. I am going to suggest that it there is something wrong with your 4x settings on your Bronco. In either 4H or 4A, you should not be experiencing the back end sliding out as easily as you state. It reads like you are still in 2H for the back end to be kicking out like that. When you switch into 4H or 4A, are you getting the notification on your main screen showing that it has switched into either of these two modes...

 

[Lcubed]

what GOAT mode are you experiencing this in?

have you run enough miles to break in the tire?
https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-ga... driving (less than,248 miles (400 kilometers).

 

[LSW]

what GOAT mode are you experiencing this in?

have you run enough miles to break in the tire?
https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/how-do-i-break-in-studded-tires#:~:text=Relatively slow driving (less than,248 miles (400 kilometers).

Mostly testing this stuff out in Normal using the different drive mode switches (4A/4H/2H) but also slippery, doesn't make much difference. The tires have 2000 miles on them.

 

[Brian_B]

I plan to attend an off-rodeo and ask some of these questions but is there a definitive answer on whether or not 4 auto slippery exacerbates wear on the drivetrain in intermittent/mixed dry/slippery conditions, beyond normal, expected usage?

With respect to this:

You are good to run in 4A all the time if you want - that's pretty much what the Bronco Sport does with it's traction control too. The system isn't subject to binding because it has some internal clutches and can re-distribute the torque as needed. Most other vehicles call it All Wheel Drive

I don't know if noise is common with the Bronco system (I don't have 4A on my big Bronco, but do have Bronco Sport as well) - that may be ABS kicking Traction Control in (It uses the brakes, and it can be noisy). An the Bronco Sport the Auto 4W is more or less silent, and it can go from effective Front Wheel Drive to effective Rear Wheel Drive to all 4 wheels and you wouldn't even really know unless you are looking at the torque display on the dash. I know on the Sport, as you flip through GOAT modes you can watch the system go from mainly Front WD to Rear WD depending on the mode. The big Bronco has a totally different t-case than the Sport, so they may work completely different.

4H/4L are different, that's going to be both axles, all the time - which is why they warn about binding so much. Without lockers, that'll still just be effectively one wheel per axle because of the open diff, and if a wheel looses traction you will lose all traction on that axle. That's a bit different than a limited slip, where you would retain at least some traction to the non-slipping wheel - but that's also why some models come with lockers - you hit the locker, and it's all wheels full torque, which is going to be better traction in slippery stuff than a LSD, but you gotta know how and when to use it or you can break it.

This article talks a bit about the difference between AWD (4A) and 4WD (4H/4L)

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a27630736/awd-vs-4wd/

Even without lockers, in 4A/4H your rear end shouldn't be breaking out terribly in snow because if it does start to kick out, the front end should still be driving in the direction of your steering wheel and pull it back around. The GOAT modes are neat, but there are only a few things they adjust that you can't already do manually (steering sensitivity, throttle sensitivity, shift points).

Might be worth a try in ECO mode and 4A/4H - that would damp down the throttle and steering a bit - see if it still breaks loose too easily (Although I think Slippery is going to do something similar, and you did mention that didn't help). If that helps, it could just be a heavy right foot that's the issue. If it doesn't, I'd make sure your front axle is actually driving when you are in 4WD

 

[fourdayoff]

Mostly testing this stuff out in Normal using the different drive mode switches (4A/4H/2H) but also slippery, doesn't make much difference. The tires have 2000 miles on them.

If you can't feel much difference between the modes maybe you have a mechanical issue you are not aware of. There is a big difference from 2H to 4H that should be very obvious. 4A is really nice just to set and forget it. Possibly have someone try it that knows for sure or check with dealer. Jim.

 

[Owl]

Do you have the rear eLocker (or not)? Check Hero panel for that button. I know the default situation on OBX is to have standard 3.73 and no eLocker. You would have had to order the eLocker as an option. Not sure if "4A" gives you that or not.

If you're talking slippery road and you have an eLocker in the rear... you can use it. On drive pavement it is a no-no.

If you don't have an eLocker and you're talking about STARTING OUT (and only in that situation) -- and spinning one tire (and traction control isn't doing it for you)... press the brake slightly while you are pressing the gas. This will force the non-slipping tire to begin rolling a bit by transferring torque to the non-slipping side.

In regard to Tahoe comparison... Tahoe is heavier, and maybe you had a limited-slip differential (LSD). Just the LSD would make a difference. Also depends on tire comparison... wide tires are not always your friend on snow.

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