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Electronics; how much is too much?

Ole Skool Bronc

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I've only been here a few days and already the landscape of this Forum is in view.

Basically; anyone Not wanting every advanced 21st century electronic gadget known to the modern world on the new Ford Bronco - they are instantly accused of wanting Ford to build a new Bronco, naturally aspirated with three on the tree, AM radio and vacuum wipers.

Frankly, not only is this quickly getting old, but the idiocy of it is irritating.

People think new cars last longer because of electronics.
Really? How so?
New cars last longer because of advanced mechanical technology, not electronics.

Sure, there are mechanical components replaced by electronics that last longer such as coil packs replacing distributors and fuel injection replacing carburetors.

That's the point!: some electronics are desired and beneficial, but some are not - especially on a rig designed to be wheeled in remote locations.

For example; Antilock Braking System should be configured for disablement when off road.

I know of NO ONE who likes the lag in Electronic Throttle Control - especially on a Manual transmission.

Electronic Stability Control on an off road vehicle; how does that even make sense? Again; option to disable when off road.

Auto Start/Stop Function - no one wants this - option to disable.

The elephant in the room; backdoor wireless interface able to take total control of your vehicle. Who would voluntarily wish for this?

Electronically actuated brakes - personally I like feeling the feed back when braking.

Is the new Bronco going to have mechanically connected steering or 100% electrically controlled? Call me old fashioned - I want a steering shaft.

Wheel spin is at times desired; so the ability to quickly disable the Traction Control System with a flick of a switch would be nice.

For everyone who wants to flame me - go ahead, I can take it. But don't cry to me when you can't spin a donut on the beach or drift around a corner in your $50,000 2021 Bronco, cause all I'll say is; "told you so".
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Stampede.Offroad

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While I agree with most of what you're saying, the outlook is not hopeful. The theoretical main competitor, Wrangler, already has too many nannies for my liking, and I don't expect a Bronco well equipped for off roading to have less.

The realistic choice for encouraging Ford to build something more in line with what you're asking for is to custom order the base model (since it is virtually impossible to find a base model truck on a dealer lot) and make it 100% clear the entire time why you're ordering it that way so the dealer can give feedback to Ford (since they're the ones Ford might actually listen to in the short term). Then outfit it to your liking, and make a public show of what you did and why you did it.

Write letters to your congress people etc. too. It's a slow process ... but you've waited 25 years for a Bronco.
 

Idahorocks

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Too far:
USB outlets on the ball of the trailer hitch
Wi-Fi enabled mud flaps
Solar cells on the driveline to charge the powered easy on/off lug nuts

Otherwise offer it with standard features and a wide range of options that make it safe, reliable, durable, efficient, and competitive and able to kick ass in the segment.
 

Carolina Jim

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2 different aspects to this question:

COST: auto makers need to wean themselves off of 'infotainment' margins. The 'wow' factor is gone. Most folks already own this technology. There's a Bronco competitor under development in England that has adopted a spartan approach to infotainment…in place of an integrated infotainment system, the finished product could feature a mount for drivers to use their own devices.

RELIABILITY: several folks have mentioned Bronco is intended to be used in remote areas - away from service departments, tow trucks, and often cell coverage. ANY tech that detracts from reliability should be omitted. This is where I'd gladly spend a few extra dollars to have a function accomplished mechanically.
 

TeocaliMG

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Is the new Bronco going to have mechanically connected steering or 100% electrically controlled? Call me old fashioned - I want a steering shaft.
Steer by wire is expensive and a ways out still, it certainly wouldn't be launched on the Bronco! Also it should be noted that electronic power steering has been in vehicles for a long time, but there is still a mechanical interface. So I wouldn't worry too much about that point, you could cut the power and still steer just like any old car. Also EPAS gives you a lot more control over how the steering will behave than traditional hydraulic systems, you want more assist, less assist, what speed do you want it at ect. This stuff has proven itself! As for the throttle pedal, I have not been in any new Ford where I preferred my old cable pulling pedal. My mechanical setup has so much more friction/inertia I actually find the new pedals much more responsive (maybe not as fun though).

Overall I think most of us would agree with a lot of what you said. Its important though to realize how much computers/electronics have improved over the years, even more than our mechanical improvements you rightfully pointed out. Cars nowadays may seem more buggy than ever, part of that is lazy engineering/manufacturing, part of that is just how much demand is put on electronics for vehicle attributes. It sucks that I cant keep a new vehicle running with just duct tape, zipties, jb weld, WD-40, and a tool box but it is also a testament to modern vehicles that I don't really need to stock those items for peace of mind in the first place. It seems we have amnesia with how awfully unreliable old cars were solely because we could fix it with an elementary education.

There are some really cool things you can do with traction control but I think everyone on this forum hopes there is a disable for it. Aside from competitors offering this, I think a hopeful example to look at is mustang. They have a feature which locks the front brakes only with the sole purpose of doing burnouts (luckily that does not have to be included in the EPA cycle ;) ). If Ford can add options like that just for fun I trust the Bronco will not be an exception.
 

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Ole Skool Bronc

Ole Skool Bronc

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Steer by wire is expensive and a ways out still, it certainly wouldn't be launched on the Bronco!
Now there's some good news

As for the throttle pedal, I have not been in any new Ford where I preferred my old cable pulling pedal. My mechanical setup has so much more friction/inertia I actually find the new pedals much more responsive (maybe not as fun though).
Easy fix; adjust cable routing, spring tension and apply some oil.

Cars nowadays may seem more buggy than ever, part of that is lazy engineering/manufacturing
Couldn't agree more. Add to that complex programming, then being locked out of the ability to read said programming and a small bug quickly becomes a major issue.

It sucks that I cant keep a new vehicle running with just duct tape, zipties, jb weld, WD-40, and a tool box but it is also a testament to modern vehicles that I don't really need to stock those items for peace of mind in the first place. It seems we have amnesia with how awfully unreliable old cars were solely because we could fix it with an elementary education.
Agree on both points; "it sucks..." and "we have amnesia...." But I still carry duct tape, zipties, jb weld, WD-40.....and a scan gauge.

There are some really cool things you can do with traction control but I think everyone on this forum hopes there is a disable for it.
Absolutely, especially when combined with a good limited slip differential. But other times; in snow, mud, and sand it can get in the way when going slow isn't an option that is working.

Aside from competitors offering this, I think a hopeful example to look at is mustang. They have a feature which locks the front brakes only with the sole purpose of doing burnouts (luckily that does not have to be included in the EPA cycle ;) ). If Ford can add options like that just for fun I trust the Bronco will not be an exception.
This is good news. We can only hope Ford recognizes the need for similar vehicle specific options determined by use in the new Bronco. However this may be options that price it in the Raptor price range.
 

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It's already too much. My 17 Fusion Sport with 28K and electronic shifter will not shift out of park.
I have been able to overide using microswitch in hole in console. It has done it 7 times in
4 days, but not every time.

I read codes using a high end scanner (that reads all modules, not just OBDII codes).
It logs several codes, this one key- Gear Shift Lock Solenoid/Actuator Circuit A Range/Performance

Drop it off at dealer, they won't fix it, as they can't duplicate it.
I asked them if they saw code. They don't care, claim mechanic won't get
paid if he can't see it.

Not my first electronic issue with my new fords, and that is something I use ON ROAD.
 

Carolina Jim

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Not my first electronic issue with my new fords
If auto-makers don't realize that electronics/programming issues are a big deal today, just go ask the folks at Boeing. Not all of us are driving around with our own 'high end scanners'...I suspect the vast majority just want to turn the key and enjoy the vehicle.

Another reality in this 3% unemployment economy is the fact that tons of dealers are shorthanded with staff proficient in electronics/programming. Not a big deal when you can shop among dozens of service departments in a major urban area. But I'm in god's country...and recently had 3 nearby jeep dealers unable to diagnose an engine light issue (turned out to be a bad sensor) without waiting Several weeks for an appointment.

So realize that an ever-increasing number of electronics/programming issues today are not only beyond the consumer's understanding...it's getting harder and harder to find service department staff to resolve them as well.
 

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My Renegade issue, that turned out to be a bad sensor, was just like what OX1 described..."not every time"..."they can't replicate it". These issues are not all as easily diagnosed as you might imagine.
 

Tslater1989

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Honestly, its not that hard. More than likely its an inexperienced or lazy tech that cant find an issue. They should give you a loaner, try two days to replicate it. It should log the error. In OX1's case, it could be something as simple as a brake switch not reading to allow for a gear change, all the way up to internal binding in the transmission. Without getting my hands on it, I couldn't tell you.
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