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[BroncoRevital]

But don't discount what it's capable of as well.

Absolutely. This is why we are all being so hard on it and expecting great things from Ford. Ford has the potential and know how to make the Bronco an incredible machine. There is a gap to fill and need for it.

Im a Ford fan because of their potential and how they bring that potential to the masses. Their high end vehicles are always impressive.

We’ve been waiting so long for this. We don’t want compromise and the same old thing. We want Ford to flex it’s muscles on the Bronco. This is an icon vehicle.

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[JimmyDean]

Exactly. Lets be honest here, people are acting as if IFS means that Ford doesn't care at all about the enthusiasts. The return of the Bronco alone is evidence to the contrary. If they didn't care, it wouldn't be returning... or it would be as an all electric crossover with "off roading spirit"

I think many are misinterpreting my unhappiness here. I was fully prepared for this to be an IFS vehicle, and understandable of that fact (if I bit disgruntled or hoping that the base IFS would at least be top notch or there being an SFA option). But with how wide the IFS is, there is a very limited amount of travel you can achieve there without widening the stance significantly...if I got to go wide, screw it I want an FSB then. If I gotta be wide, then give me the shoulder room (I would much prefer a narrow frame, narrow body, narrow wheelbase). As of right now, I have seen ZERO that sets the Bronco apart from the 4runner, or the Everest, or any other number of the smaller body on frame SUVs in functionality. Only the removeable top. Which that alone will sell some.

 

[magnetnerd]

Mmmmmm, correct to a point. Jeep sells on the vague image of off road usability... I say this as in the 65% that buy it as a car that they COULD go anywhere in could also get plenty of use out of a Ranger or something like that, as they see them on the same level of ruggedness. You know what the difference is?

REMOVABLE ROOF

That's what sells the most Jeeps. I don't really associate with Jeep enthusiasts all that much, so my scope of Jeep owners is limited to the 65%. They all buy the Jeep because its a car with a fun energy, fueled by the removable top paired with the go-anywhere attitude

My point is, it doesn't need to be an all-out offroad brawler to sell to the masses, it just needs to have a fun image

Agreed. I've always loved the Bronco, but recently considered getting a Mazda MX-5 Miata because it's a convertible. I reconsidered because I live in CO and I like to do outdoors stuff and the Miata just isn't a practical vehicle for me. I was seriously considering a Wrangler instead, but now that the Bronco is coming, I'll probably go with that. IFS or SFA? Don't care. Either will do some light trails and be livable on a daily basis, as long as it has a removable top, I'll likely buy one.

Edit: F/T AWD would be nice too. Anyone have any speculation on whether this will be offered?

 

[BroncoRevital]

My point is, it doesn't need to be an all-out offroad brawler to sell to the masses, it just needs to have a fun image

Yes part of the factor of buying a Jeep is the roof removal but so is a convertible. The Bronco isn’t designed to be just a fun vehicle. You can do that with something smaller and recreate a Geo Tracker.

The Bronco is to be a formidable off-roader. The top off is a bonus but the soul and purpose is capability.

 

[rmc523]

Yeah, they don't, but what's important is the image that they COULD.

Plus we're all a bunch of enthusiasts here, so don't be surprised to hear enthusiast opinions.

I'm not discounting enthusiast opinions. Just pointing out that they can target a different part of the market, and that they can't target only that sliver of buyers that are just "enthusiasts" and ignore the rest of the buyers.

I think the general consensus is that something that has a lot of overlap with the wrangler in capability and features, maybe with some different strengths and weaknesses, would overall be an awesome product. Especially with Ford’s recent powertrain options and styling. Add the legacy of the Bronco, the raptor off-road trim, aftermarket parts and we’ve got a wrangler fighter.

Exactly.

Where's the downvote or dislike button? 'Hurr Durr Go Buy a 200k hand-built vehicle'. There will be NO Bronco in a couple of years if it does not appeal to the people who intend to use it seriously off road

On the flip side, there will be NO Bronco in a couple of years if they don't appeal to that 90% of buyers and only chase that 10%.

 

[Nanook]

Remember the 90 people that are in that room are there because they saw the 10 vehicles that are built in the parking lot.

 

[Jake_zx2]

The Bronco is to be a formidable off-roader. The top off is a bonus but the soul and purpose is capability.

I'd say it's the other way around. I'd be willing to bet if the bronco were instead released with an SFA but full hardtop only, it would be a flop. It would sell to the 10%, and that's it. The removable roof is the peak of the appeal and what give it that fun factor... the offroad capabilities are a bonus

 

[JimmyDean]

I'm not discounting enthusiast opinions. Just pointing out that they can target a different part of the market, and that they can't target only that sliver of buyers that are just "enthusiasts" and ignore the rest of the buyers.




Exactly.



On the flip side, there will be NO Bronco in a couple of years if they don't appeal to that 90% of buyers and only chase that 10%.

On the flip side, you appeal to that 90% buy having that 10% show what it is capable of. Just like Mustangs. Mustangs are not feasible for probably 90% of buyers, they are a two seater with poor gas mileage, limited trunk space, and more performance than could ever be used on the street. But they have the performance ability there. They have the look, the feel, the history. It is a God Damned Ford Mustang! Change the base model to a FWD 4 banger 4 door and see what happens. Even if you still have the top end of the Mustang line, the GT350s and GT500s, etc, there has to be the soul of those top ends in the base and lowend models for them to sell. Which currently in the Mustang there is, so they sell. If the only truly capable Bronco is some top end package, and the bottom end is no better than every other SUV on the market, then you won't appeal to the majority of those 90% who are after the image of having a vehicle that can do.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

I'd say it's the other way around. I'd be willing to bet if the bronco were instead released with an SFA but full hardtop only, it would be a flop. It would sell to the 10%, and that's it. The removable roof is the peak of the appeal and what give it that fun factor... the offroad capabilities are a bonus

I'm the 90% that wants a removable top

Already got delusions of grandeur of taking it off on trails and to the beach

 

[Jake_zx2]

On the flip side, you appeal to that 90% buy having that 10% show what it is capable of. Just like Mustangs. Mustangs are not feasible for probably 90% of buyers, they are a two seater with poor gas mileage, limited trunk space, and more performance than could ever be used on the street. But they have the performance ability there. They have the look, the feel, the history. It is a God Damned Ford Mustang! Change the base model to a FWD 4 banger 4 door and see what happens. Even if you still have the top end of the Mustang line, the GT350s and GT500s, etc, there has to be the soul of those top ends in the base and lowend models for them to sell. Which currently in the Mustang there is, so they sell. If the only truly capable Bronco is some top end package, and the bottom end is no better than every other SUV on the market, then you won't appeal to the majority of those 90% who are after the image of having a vehicle that can do.

You bring up the Mustang, but as I said before, the Mustang represents EXACTLY what this Bronco is going to. The Mustang isn't an all out track machine like the Camaro it competes against, nor is it a cushy cruiser like the challenger is. But it is a perfect compromise between the 2 and has the image that people desire, and that's why it outsells both of its competitors fairly significantly

Now replace Mustang with Bronco, Camaro with Wrangler, and Challenger with 4 runner, and you see exactly what I'm talking about

 

[JimmyDean]

I'd say it's the other way around. I'd be willing to bet if the bronco were instead released with an SFA but full hardtop only, it would be a flop. It would sell to the 10%, and that's it. The removable roof is the peak of the appeal and what give it that fun factor... the offroad capabilities are a bonus

I would say it is a solid mix of both. Nearly all of the off-roaders of old that are fondly remembered had removeable tops as well. wranglers, broncos, yotas, rovers, hell even the suzukis some crazy folk built up. It is a formula that many have tried and succeeded on in the past in that marketspace, and it hasn't really changed. But there is only one player there right now. That is one of the things many didn't like about the Bronco II was the solid top. or the FJ Cruiser. I am not sure if the 4runner would gain market or lose market if they did it though, as they are primarily marketed as a smaller family SUV that dad won't be embarrassed driving around in.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

I would say it is a solid mix of both. Nearly all of the off-roaders of old that are fondly remembered had removeable tops as well. wranglers, broncos, yotas, rovers, hell even the suzukis some crazy folk built up. It is a formula that many have tried and succeeded on in the past in that marketspace, and it hasn't really changed. But there is only one player there right now. That is one of the things many didn't like about the Bronco II was the solid top. or the FJ Cruiser. I am not sure if the 4runner would gain market or lose market if they did it though, as they are primarily marketed as a smaller family SUV that dad won't be embarrassed driving around in.

FJ would of sold more and still be around if it were a Japanese Wrangler instead of a Funky Retro-ish Xterra fighter.

So the Bronco 2 is a Solid top, no wonder I don't even react when I see those.

I'd rather get a 4dr Bronco than a 4runner, hands down.

Also, if I were ever stupid rich and had $$$$ to spend, There's quite a few companies that'll build the classics like these

 

[JimmyDean]

You bring up the Mustang, but as I said before, the Mustang represents EXACTLY what this Bronco is going to. The Mustang isn't an all out track machine like the Camaro it competes against, nor is it a cushy cruiser like the challenger is. But it is a perfect compromise between the 2 and has the image that people desire, and that's why it outsells both of its competitors fairly significantly

Now replace Mustang with Bronco, Camaro with Wrangler, and Challenger with 4 runner, and you see exactly what I'm talking about

Except that the Mustang can, and does, compete with the Camaro on the track. The top trim levels of both are as capable as each other. In fact, from reviews, the PP2 is a significantly better track car than the 1LE, at least for 2 laps until the diff overheats. And nearly everyone states that the mustang is the better street car for various reasons. the camaro only wins on the horsepower wars for potential due to displacement, but the high revving 5.0 can make up for a lot of that with a better power band when running hard.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Mmmmmm, correct to a point. Jeep sells on the vague image of off road usability... I say this as in the 65% that buy it as a car that they COULD go anywhere in could also get plenty of use out of a Ranger or something like that, as they see them on the same level of ruggedness. You know what the difference is?

REMOVABLE ROOF

That's what sells the most Jeeps. I don't really associate with Jeep enthusiasts all that much, so my scope of Jeep owners is limited to the 65%. They all buy the Jeep because its a car with a fun energy, fueled by the removable top paired with the go-anywhere attitude

My point is, it doesn't need to be an all-out offroad brawler to sell to the masses, it just needs to have a fun image

Every summer(ish), I'll see people chilling topless/Doorless/both at lights, on the road, cruising, etc.

On the one hand, if you're behind one and there aren't any other lands, then it sucks because they don't care as they cruise, but on the other hand, its cool and makes me wish I had a convertible again.

Tbh, only recently did I really associate Jeeps with off-roading, though again, more what I see driving around to work or lunch vs going near trails and stuff

Sure I'm not the only person who see's the topless/doorless jeeps and thinks the same thing, hence what Ford is going after

 

[paxfish]

Beyond my emotional bond with the early Bronco, here is why I am intrigued by the new Bronco offering.

I live at 9100 feet. Normally aspirated motors lose 27% of their power at that elevation.
I’m climbing mountains constantly. Last year we had 25 feet of snow over the season at the house. A 270 hp 4Runner drops to around 200hp up here. The Ecoboost maintains it’s HP and generates much higher torque.

A normal day could include:

• a run to a ski resort with gear,
• a trip to the grocery,
• a full on car camping trip with gear, bikes, etc. altitudes nearing 13000.
• 4wd engaged for days or weeks at a time.
• Once a year cross country towing a U Haul.
• Several tows of a 5000 pound center console.

Plus several times a year, we do 50 to 300 mile interstate, 25 mile gravel, 7 to 10 mile wilderness flyfishing trips that include miles of baby heads, deep ruts, some mud and leftover snow. Not rock crawling, but too much for the average Explorer I’d say.

Today, I do all this with a 2013 Ecoboost Screw. In powerful comfort and high reliability. But it is huge, and I’ve been stopped twice on small winding mountain trails that Rubis and LandRovers can handle.

The wife wants something smaller as well. Reliability is key for me, so the 4Runner TRD Pro is the only potential Bronco contender in my view. In fact, when I am offroad up here, more locals drive Tacomas, 4Runners, FJs, Landcruisers, etc. There is just too much personal risk if you were to break down in the wilderness areas. The Jeeps we do see are often not locally owned. There are some, but it is usually folks from elsewhere.

I think the Bronco is gonna be my first choice, and I won’t take a closer look at the Toyota unless they do some forced induction.

My bonafides, circa 1980. 105 HP 170 cu in 3 on the tree....

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