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Full-time 4x4 vs part-time

Sampsonrustic

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^^^^ THIS ^^^^
And using 4H on a patch of dry pavement can prematurely grind your cases... it just depends on the situation. I don’t think anyone is suggesting leaving the car in A4 100% of the time...

and who cares if there’s a wear part? At least it’s something that’s meant to be replaced. Used correctly it should last plenty long...
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Sampsonrustic

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True. Except that an all wheel drive system will never beat a 4-wheel drive system in terms of traction/grip. This is why real trucks have a 4-wheel drive system.

If you want AWD then go buy a Subaru.

BTW ... The Bronco has exactly what you are describing >> Advanced 4x4 with Automatic On Demand Engagement >> 4A

1613538870972.png
You can’t use 4H on dry pavement with intermittent patches of ice. So in that case, yes A4 will give you better tradition than 4H or 4L.

They are just different tools for different purposes.
 

mdepll

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Without sasquatching it, you have to move up to at least a Black Diamond to get the advanced. I wasn't too happy about that either.
Or OBX. Question really is is moving up to BD or OBX or BB sas worth the cost ??? Especially if you only really want the adv 4x4 add-on.
 
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Raptor911

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I never said to use 4H on dry pavement. I said 4A. Do you know what 4A is?

I have it on my Raptor and it is awesome!

You can’t use 4H on dry pavement with intermittent patches of ice. They are different tools for different purposes.
 

Sampsonrustic

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I never said to use 4H on dry pavement. I said 4A. Do you know what 4A is?

I have it on my Raptor and it is awesome!
Ah sorry when you said “real 4 wheel drive system” I misinterpreted that as just 4H and 4L, like my truck has. Too many conversations at once.

yes agreed A4x4 is superior to AWD.
 

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85_Ranger4x4

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Right I mean I’m assuming you actively are putting into that mode when you go driving in bad conditions, I’m not suggesting leaving it on 100% of the time.


Definitely agree it can make people feel more confident than they should.

stopping powwr
My only experience with automatic 4wd was my mom's old 2002 Explorer. The 4wd settings were 4A, 4HI, and 4LO. So yeah, pick your poison there...

My wife's car has automatic AWD, it marches to its own drum and does its thing while you have no clue what the heck what is really going on until the traction control starts punching itself in the face. Then you kill the TC, drop the hammer and wish we had taken the truck...

Both my mom and my wife are terrible about road conditions. "man the highway was a sheet of ice this morning" "oh, it was fine when I left" (wife leaves for work before me and I know that skating rink didnt just form in 10 minutes) Her car just goes so no biggie. I gotta be on the lookout for slick spots so I am forced to pay attention...

And that is why we ordered the advanced 4wd for her Bronco... I don't want an snap reaction oops with her expecting the car to do something it won't do. I hemmed and hawed over it for a long time, she has 200k+ miles of this car doing what she expects it to do... not sure I want to mess with it.
 

Sampsonrustic

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My only experience with automatic 4wd was my mom's old 2002 Explorer. The 4wd settings were 4A, 4HI, and 4LO. So yeah, pick your poison there...

My wife's car has automatic AWD, it marches to its own drum and does its thing while you have no clue what the heck what is really going on until the traction control starts punching itself in the face. Then you kill the TC, drop the hammer and wish we had taken the truck...

Both my mom and my wife are terrible about road conditions. "man the highway was a sheet of ice this morning" "oh, it was fine when I left" (wife leaves for work before me and I know that skating rink didnt just form in 10 minutes) Her car just goes so no biggie. I gotta be on the lookout for slick spots so I am forced to pay attention...

And that is why we ordered the advanced 4wd for her Bronco... I don't want an snap reaction oops with her expecting the car to do something it won't do. I hemmed and hawed over it for a long time, she has 200k+ miles of this car doing what she expects it to do... not sure I want to mess with it.
I can relate to this in many ways. My wife is a good driver but certainly on the more, hmmm, “passive” end of the spectrum? Then again I think she gets less stressed out by other bad drivers.... so I wouldn’t be surprised if she ends up living longer anyway.
 

85_Ranger4x4

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And using 4H on a patch of dry pavement can prematurely grind your cases...
"a patch" isn't a big deal if you are not turning sharp. There is some wiggle room and I have been known to feed one side a little packed snow from time to time to keep things unwound.
 

Sampsonrustic

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"a patch" isn't a big deal if you are not turning sharp. There is some wiggle room and I have been known to feed one side a little packed snow from time to time to keep things unwound.
Sure but the inverse is worse. Dry Pavement with patches of black ice etc... nothing would beat A4 in that situation, right?
 

85_Ranger4x4

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Sure but the inverse is worse. Dry Pavement with patches of black ice etc... nothing would beat A4 in that situation, right?
Personally I would rather know the patch was there by spinning a tire than sliding tires thru the next black ice patch trying to stop or turn because I didn't know it was slick.

I have daily driven the same manual 4wd truck in 15.5 winters and it is so horrible I have no plans of replacing it in the foreseeable future (shrugs)
 

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ssolypop

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Any reason why they didn’t make this truck full-time 4x4 and instead opted for part-time select ?
You no like? Get an Outback! Can I have your reservation?
 

ZackDanger

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Personally I would rather know the patch was there by spinning a tire than sliding tires thru the next black ice patch trying to stop or turn because I didn't know it was slick.

I have daily driven the same manual 4wd truck in 15.5 winters and it is so horrible I have no plans of replacing it in the foreseeable future (shrugs)
Either 4A engagement will be seamless with no perceptible change in driving dynamic... which means it’s doing a magical job and making your drive as safe as it would be without these driving condition concerns.

Or.

You’ll feel something in your seat and you’ll get the feedback you’re used to... just in a more safe manner.

You’ve been driving long enough to know what the conditions are so it’s unlikely you’d get caught off guard because of the existence of 4A. It will be just another tool (like traction control, anti-roll, ABS, etc) to help keep you safe.

$0.02
 

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Agree to disagree.

A4 is a proven convenience and safety capability that I personally have enjoyed having. My current f150 does not have it and there are plenty of times in inclement weather where I’m either Switching back and forth as I hit pavement and snow, or just leaving it in 2H to not accidentally leave it in 4H on a dry section of road, but wishing I was in 4x4. Leaving it in A4 is just really convenient day to day in snowy climates that aren’t 100% covered all season, and diverts power in a very smart and effective manner that’s beyond the capability of some standard 4x4 systems. It’s definitely not necessary for off roading, it’s really for inclement weather where you aren’t in consistent conditions.
As I said in the clip you took, this isn’t a 4wd truck, I can see where auto 4wd is necessary on a long truck with a light rear end, I’ve needed it and I’ve had it and I’ve used it.

But the short wheelbase Bronco? I’m not so sure.
 

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True. Except that an all wheel drive system will never beat a 4-wheel drive system in terms of traction/grip. This is why real trucks have a 4-wheel drive system.

If you want AWD then go buy a Subaru.

BTW ... The Bronco has exactly what you are describing >> Advanced 4x4 with Automatic On Demand Engagement >> 4A

1613538870972.png
There’s a big difference between fake AWD and real AWD, the crap Honda and Subaru use is not a true AWD system.

Take a look at the 1970s Powerwagons, last Gen 4Runner, and the H1/H2/H3 for true AWD systems. They all allow the user to lock the center differential into a 50:50 4wd while giving the user excellent traction in 60:40 AWD. They have a true transfer case which is required to have a true AWD setup. No clutches.
 

Laminar

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Auto 4wd introduces clutches to the transfer case... clutches wear out.
How do you think ESOF transfer cases work? Hint: clutches.

It helps you go, not stop or steer.
It definitely helps steer. My F150 will push like crazy when trying to turn in slick conditions. The only way to turn the thing is to give it some throttle and get the front wheels to help pull the front end around.

True. Except that an all wheel drive system will never beat a 4-wheel drive system in terms of traction/grip. This is why real trucks have a 4-wheel drive system.
While rock crawling, sure. If you're going to be putting tires up in the air, you need all four wheels locked together with a locking transfer case and front and rear lockers. There's a reason the Raptor's "Weather" mode engages 4A.

There’s a big difference between fake AWD and real AWD, the crap Honda and Subaru use is not a true AWD system.
LOL

I guess I have to really go back to fundamentals with you. A locked transfer case is only advantageous offroad, so trying to denigrate road cars for not having locking transfer cases is disingenuous. Let's also not forget that Subaru DOES offer a locking center differential in its...wait for it...offroad rally-inspired car, the STI.

Next up - a fixed ratio full-time F/R transfer case is NOT ideal. There's a reason basically no automakers use them anymore, they limit the vehicle's ability to transfer power where it can be used and ultimately results in reduced performance. BMW's first xDrive system used a similar 40:60 F:R planetary like the BW 4484, 4493, and 4494 in the H2/H3. They very quickly switched to electronic engagement for a significant increase in capability.

Take a look at the 1970s Powerwagons, last Gen 4Runner, and the H1/H2/H3 for true AWD systems. They all allow the user to lock the center differential into a 50:50 4wd while giving the user excellent traction in 60:40 AWD. They have a true transfer case which is required to have a true AWD setup. No clutches.
In nowhere but your weird world is a "true transfer case" some kind of requirement for "true AWD." That's a really weird place to assert a No True Scotsman fallacy. And to pull from your previous detractions, both Subaru and Honda offer AWD systems with dynamic front/rear torque split, and even the ability to proactively transfer power between the two rear wheels - Subaru has DCCD and Honda has i-VTM4. That's something an open/locked diff can never do, so it will always be less capable of finding traction than one that is actively varied.

Yes, a locked transfer case and locked front/rear axles are optimal for rock crawling or mud-bogging, but that's not what AWD systems are designed to do. So calling AWD systems "not true" because they can't do something they weren't designed to do is like getting mad at your dog because he can't fly.

In every condition outside of severe offroad wheel-in-the-air use, an active AWD system has a significant advantage over a fully locked or a constant-torque-split system. Heck, any well-tuned Haldex system would absolutely lay waste to your H2 on a snowy road.
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