M210/220 5.13

[tlubull]

So whats the deal on BD? Whats it going to take to AM prep for 35s? A front axel? What's that run? The availability of alacarte axles in the parts catalog is a bit confusing.

Thanks

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[Razorback]

So whats the deal on BD? Whats it going to take to AM prep for 35s? A front axel? What's that run? The availability of alacarte axles in the parts catalog is a bit confusing.

Thanks

As Rocketeer said, Bronco is excepted to weld ring unless it's a locking diff. If so, you would need the whole axle. Is BD locking both front and back?

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

So whats the deal on BD? Whats it going to take to AM prep for 35s? A front axel? What's that run? The availability of alacarte axles in the parts catalog is a bit confusing.

Thanks

Well, you can't regear the M190 front without replacing the carrier as well as the gears. But the bigger issue may be whether or not hanging 35s off an M190 is a good idea. I'm sure you could do it on a mall crawler, but in "real" use, it might prove too weak. In that case, you might have to spring for the M210 replacement axle assembly in your choice of ratios.

 

[tlubull]

Well, you can't regear the M190 front without replacing the carrier as well as the gears. But the bigger issue may be whether or not hanging 35s off an M190 is a good idea. I'm sure you could do it on a mall crawler, but in "real" use, it might prove too weak. In that case, you might have to spring for the M210 replacement axle assembly in your choice of ratios.

Can the 210 be had alacarte from Ford? Or just with the BL trim / sas?

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

My expectation is that M190 = open front diff, and M210 = locking front diff. This might prove incorrect, but I have the sneaking suspicion that Ford only will install the larger front carrier in models that lock, which would require the extra strength.

I sincerely doubt that the axle size will be ala carte from the factory; it'll likely only be tied to whether or not you can choose a locker for the front (probably only by package or trim level). However, the upgrade/accessory list has the M210 in different ratios on it as an aftermarket purchase. So, you have to buy it that way, then have it installed (or DIY). The axle swap probably isn't that complicated, just tedious.

 

[Razorback]

Can the 210 be had alacarte from Ford? Or just with the BL trim / sas?

It can be. Late accessory and price TBD.

 

[tlubull]

I sincerely doubt that the axle size will be ala carte from the factory;

It can be. Late accessory and price TBD.

Lol. I'll take it, that the forum doesn't know yet! Haha

 

[Felix808]

Sorry, but many production vehicles have ring gears welded to the carrier, and have for some time. Ford only went that way on some applications recently, but GM started using welded gears around 2009 or 2010. So did BMW. I'm sure other companies do to, but those are the ones I have experience with.

The Ranger already has welded on rings on their M190 front diffs, and on non-locking rears. Bronco will follow suit. The M210s with lockers will have bolt on gears, and the M220 rears with locking will too. So, open carriers will be welded, lockers will be bolt on.

So, anyone that is buying any of these aftermarket ring & pinion sets will be able to directly install them on locking axles. But you'll also need a new carrier if you are working on axle with an open diff. But hey, if you're going that far, you probably want to install an LSD or locker anyway...

Interesting, never ran into that before. Good to know.

 

[Felix808]

All the other gear ratios have just the ring and pinion without having to buy the axle. Or you can buy axle also. The 5.13 has the (front)M210 as gears or axle but the M220 only lists the axle. My rear axle wouldn't even have rotated off the assembly line before I want the 5.13 gears though... Not sure why they have just gears for all the other ratios.

Sorry thought I had deleted what I was typing. Disregard.

 

[Razorback]

Sorry thought I had deleted what I was tying. Disregard.

Been there, done that...lol

 

[Felix808]

I may be using the wrong terminology, ring gear welded as opposed to bolted to the differential

Welded vs. Bolted Ring Gears | Power Transmission Blog

Never heard of factory welded ring gears before. I was wrong on that one

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

Lol. I'll take it, that the forum doesn't know yet! Haha

I think he and I were saying the same thing - it'll be available as an accessory from the Performance Parts catalog.

I was just trying to add to that that it won't be a factory-installed ala carte option. You can buy it from Ford, but not installed in the original build. You'll have to install aftermarket if you don't buy a package that includes it.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

So whats the deal on BD? Whats it going to take to AM prep for 35s? A front axel? What's that run? The availability of alacarte axles in the parts catalog is a bit confusing.

Thanks

AM prep? Not familiar with that term.
Depends on your use case scenario.
Maybe just some lift and offset rims to make every thing clear the bigger tires.

Somebody on this forum with extensive axle engineering knowledge gave me a ton of info on the axles a good while back.
It may take me a while to dig that up.

(EDIT: deleted a bunch of rambling ...see next post.)

If somebody cannot afford Squatch now, I get it. But even without seeing the pricing, I can't imagine a DitY approach to Squatch being close to the Squatch price, let alone being even cheaper. Squatch is a steal...I can't wait for ManSquatch!!! Crawler gear!!!

If there's any hint you need the Squatch components, get the Squatch now, it's a hell of a bargain for offroaders. Strip your build of EVERYTHING that you can do later, if you have to. Steel Bumpers, rock rails, floor mats, sound deadening headliners, bimini tops etc etc

 

[HoosierDaddy]

LOL, that took about 10 seconds ....

The new Advantek D30 and D44 should of been given new designations.
Comparing them to the older axles is like directly comparing a G6 Bronco to a EB, because they share a name too.

That said, the M190's center differential is actually rated by Dana as being stronger than the new Jeep D44.
The M210 is significantly stronger.
The pinion teeth of the M190 and M210 engage the ring gear closer to the center of the gear.
The D44 and D30 have the pinion closer to the top, for driveshaft clearance.
This puts more deflection stress on the D30/44 pinion.

Also, the ring gears use an new convex curved tooth shape, that increases the % of ring gear and pinion tooth contact, while reducing friction.

As @Apples has said, the CV joints are going to be the weak link in the front axle.

The good news is that the Ford engineers made the Sasquatch CV size the default half shaft for all Broncos.
Also, there is only one half shaft.
It is interchangeable L/R, Base to Wildtrack.

Finally, Ford has stated that the Bronco is easily lifted. Just like the Wrangler.
Ford Dealers have watched Jeep Dealers get fat and happy putting MOPAR warrenty approved 2" lifts and 37" tires on Wranglers.
Either straight off the showroom floor, or as a used sale still under warranty.

Ford has directly stated that Bronco dealers will be able to get in on this action.
Big money is at stake.

All of this means that the Bronco hard parts will handle 37" tires.
Just add lift and rubber.

M190 Broncos will be like D30 Wranglers. 35" if you are lightfooted on the trail. 37" if it's a mall crawler.

M210 +37" will be gtg for the lightfooted.
We don't know yet if the 40" tires will be usable as a mall crawler without heavy modifications to things like the ball joints and steering.
Probably not. The 40" donuts are very heavy.

 

[orion]

I bet the Bronco won't have welded diffs. In the accessories pdf, they list M190 FRONT 4.70 RING AND PINON. This is an Offroad Icon that will be modded. Ford surely thought of that and I don't think they would offer just the ring and pinion for the M190 axle if you had to replace the carrier also... Here's hoping.

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