More Initial Impressions with slightly different perspective

[FishKzor]

Apologize if it came up in any previous page: Anyone know if the corn kernel in the cup holder comes standard? Or is it part of the High Package, which unfortunately isn't available on my Black Diamond?

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[Old Guy]

Apologize if it came up in any previous page: Anyone know if the corn kernel in the cup holder comes standard? Or is it part of the High Package, which unfortunately isn't available on my Black Diamond?

High package. It is the Drive in ready, built in popcorn popper package.

 

[BenB007]

RR uses the approach and departure with the suspension lifted to max, as stock the Bronco absolutely destroys the unibody RR.

Good luck on the crossover, at the end of the day it’s still a hyped up minivan.

The numbers came from Squatched Badlands with 35's vs 2021 Defender which has stock air suspension. I didn't make them up. So, actually the Defender is stock and the Badland's is non-stock with a lift from the Sasquatch package and 35 inch tires (neither which is stock) and that's what the number are.

 

[RedHotFuzz]

Once you spec out parts and labor, Badlands has a very real business case for being so expensive over base.

True, but...if you're ordering it specced like that from the factory, should labor costs really be a factor? On paper from a pure cost/value perspective, not really. They're not stripping components from an already-assembled Bronco and installing the upgraded components. They're simply building with the upgraded components to begin with. There is no additional labor cost on their end.

If you're comparing the upgrade factory price to what you'd pay to do the same thing aftermarket (parts + labor), you're getting a good deal, but if you consider you're simply paying to have your Bronco built with better parts to begin with, it's not such a great value.

Bottom line I suppose it's a sorta-win/win for both the customer and Ford. You're getting upgrades that would cost you more in the aftermarket (because: labor costs), Ford is boosting its profit margin by charging you a premium for upgraded parts pre-assembly; upgraded parts they are getting at bulk-order prices, at no increased labor cost to them.

 

[Headsong]

Hey Amy! I don't know what will be there! I'm hoping for a Big Bend Velocity Blue 4DR, which is what I ordered through Granger!! I'm scheduled at the Villa Park event on April 24th!! Sal

Only two weeks we see them live!

 

[RedHotFuzz]

Good luck on the crossover, at the end of the day it’s still a hyped up minivan.

My friend has the new Defender 110 (his "lifelong dream vehicle"), for which he paid a premium and had to have shipped from the other end of the country. Nice ride to be sure. But I think the term "Mall Crawler" that you hear often on this forum most certainly applies to the Defender. Not because it isn't offroad-capable (it certainly is), but because you're right about the bodywork not being offroad-friendly (Dealer: "Oh, you hit a rock and need a new front fascia? How many months would you like to finance that?") and because these will almost certainly be nearly-exclusive city cruisers for big-moneyed folks looking to impress their peers. Just like pretty much every current Land Rover on the market.

For me, the Defender is too expensive, the closest dealership is 45 minutes away, Land Rovers are notoriously unreliable, and the roof doesn't come off. Not a legitimate competitor.

 

[Rick Astley]

True, but...if you're ordering it specced like that from the factory, should labor costs really be a factor? On paper from a pure cost/value perspective, not really. They're not stripping components from an already-assembled Bronco and installing the upgraded components. They're simply building with the upgraded components to begin with. There is no additional labor cost on their end.

If you're comparing the upgrade factory price to what you'd pay to do the same thing aftermarket (parts + labor), you're getting a good deal, but if you consider you're simply paying to have your Bronco built with better parts to begin with, it's not such a great value.

Bottom line I suppose it's a sorta-win/win for both the customer and Ford. You're getting upgrades that would cost you more in the aftermarket (because: labor costs), Ford is boosting its profit margin by charging you a premium for upgraded parts pre-assembly; upgraded parts they are getting at bulk-order prices, at no increased labor cost to them.

The factors are simple: what I as an individual will end up paying for the vehicle specced out the way I want it, via factory or aftermarket components and costs to put the vehicle in operation.

Buy the car new: Cost = price I pay for the car

Buy a car and upgrade it to my specifications: Price of car + parts + labor


Unless there's some system where I can negotiate labor rates to build my single unit off the assembly line, the argument is for the labor costs I can control. They have an economies of scale in manufacturing that dwarfs the real-world application of taking any aspect of their labor costs into consideration. Only MY labor costs.

 

[NCOBX]

The numbers came from Squatched Badlands with 35's vs 2021 Defender which has stock air suspension. I didn't make them up. So, actually the Defender is stock and the Badland's is non-stock with a lift from the Sasquatch package and 35 inch tires (neither which is stock) and that's what the number are.

I didn’t say you did make them up, I’m just pointing out how ludicrous RRs numbers are and why they do not reflect real world capability.

Also by definition of “stock” anything that leaves factory is stock. I think you mean base. But with that said I will take the base Bronco over Defender every day if the week.

 

[BennyBronco69]

Can't wait to see them Tuesday.

If the interior materials end up feeling cheap it's going to be hard for me not to walk away. If they're not durable imagine the rattling/noises you'll have after a few off road adventures.

 

[AZshot]

Options will kill you. Expensive markup is the sales tactic of choice for decades. Options will break. I usually buy pretty plain vehicles, and drive them for a minimum of 200,000 miles or 10 years. You can just about double the price of a vehicle if you go with all the top packages. Do you get double the enjoyment for $50,000 that another gets for $32,000? Up to you.

I was looking at trading my 20 year old F-150 for a new Toyota Tacoma quad cab. Trying to get one with just the barest of options during covid, about $31,000 was a cheap as a dealer would "deal". None would budge off MSRP. I would suffer with 2WD.

Then I discovered the Bronco. Saw the $28,000 price. Got interested fast, 4WD for less than the Toyota. Now I've had a 4runner, 90s model. High quality interior, but very plane and utilitarian even then. Today, Toyotas are about the same.

So I'm getting a very exiting (worth a few grand), 4WD (couple more) with a lot of standard options, in a color I want. And I had to get a couple options, locking differential, modular hard top. That's it! $39,000. It's still a truck, it's still a tad too expensive, but I will keep it a long time.

If I wanted a $50K comfort vehicle I would not be buying a Bronco. If I wanted fancy leather interior, pebbled plastics, premium sound, and electronics cameras rivaling the Mars Perseverance.

One of the other - Grand Touring, 4WD offroad truck. Can't have both. But you can pay too much and try to get there. Like what we said about the old dual purpose motorcycles of the 70s. They could do neither dirt or street very well.

 

[KANE COUNTY ILLINOIS]

Only two weeks we see them live!

I know, right!!

 

[Wolfeman]

I can't provide any real evidence or experience here, but based on pictures and reviews - the Raptor seems to be of better quality and fit and finish. Not to mention more space, ventilated seats and actual? leather etc

If anyone has first hand experience with both, please chime in. I think this is a real consideration for many of us.

My 2019 Raptor looks like any other F150 inside. Other than the stitched embroidery that says Raptor on the seat, I'd imagine it's of the same quality as every single other F150 on the road.

 

[Deleted member 9326]

My friend has the new Defender 110 (his "lifelong dream vehicle"), for which he paid a premium and had to have shipped from the other end of the country. Nice ride to be sure. But I think the term "Mall Crawler" that you hear often on this forum most certainly applies to the Defender. Not because it isn't offroad-capable (it certainly is), but because you're right about the bodywork not being offroad-friendly (Dealer: "Oh, you hit a rock and need a new front fascia? How many months would you like to finance that?") and because these will almost certainly be nearly-exclusive city cruisers for big-moneyed folks looking to impress their peers. Just like pretty much every current Land Rover on the market.

For me, the Defender is too expensive, the closest dealership is 45 minutes away, Land Rovers are notoriously unreliable, and the roof doesn't come off. Not a legitimate competitor.

Maybe this one?
https://www.caranddriver.com/land-rover/defender-80

 

[rmc523]

I'm with you there. I didn't get the impression that anything felt cheap yesterday, in that it wasn't durable. In fairness I was a little pumped about the overall impression when I was sitting in them and didn't dig in as much as I could have to the materials. Saw nothing cheap though inside. Not fancy though.

100% with this....


----


After reading the comments, I'll give some of my feedback after seeing/being in the interior in person today. I could've sat there all day going around the vehicle with a fine tooth comb, but obviously couldn't do that, and I was definitely excited to be there seeing it in person, but here are some thoughts......

Within the comments, there seemed to be a back and forth on what's "cheap" and what's "not", and what's quality and what's not.

I think it's important to make a distinction between "high quality plastic" from "low-quality tupperwear garbage plastic", as well as something soft-touch (which can give the illusion of "nicer") vs. a textured hard plastic. Something can be a high quality plastic, but be hard textured. On the flip side, it can be low quality and soft touch. And of course there's the middle grounds of high quality/soft touch or low quality hard textured.

The interior is certainly not a Rolls Royce, but it's not a Playskool car either. It didn't feature soft-touch plastics all over that many cars have nowadays. The dash top had what I'll call a rubberized coating - it wasn't "squishy" soft touch, and was solid, but there was a slight rubberized quality to it that kept it from being completely rock hard. Beyond that, the only "squishy" soft-touch areas I noticed were the main "touch points" - your center console cover, steering wheel, door arm rest, and the colored pad on the top of the doors near the handle. Everything else was textured hard plastic.

So if "squishy" soft touch is what you're looking for, you'll likely be disappointed. BUT with that said, though it was pre-production, and despite being hard/textured, the plastics seemed of a high quality to me. As stated above, there can be good quality with hard textured. Fit and finish also seemed good to me, which is another aspect of quality that people seem to be concerned with.

As others have said, the materials chosen were done so for durability and ease-of-cleaning.

I sat in an OBX with Lux today, which is representative of what my Wildtrak will be like aside from the color. I did find myself thinking it'd be nice to have some "fancier" materials (see below) for the pricepoint, but I wasn't concerned about the quality of materials, nor do I see myself changing anything order wise.

I totally understand Bronco's intended purpose and whatnot, and why the materials were chosen. But for the pricepoint at the upper end, I think it would be nice for them to have an interior upgrade OPTION for those that may want it. Something like this would more appropriately be called the LUX package (with current lux better being Tech Package). Mustang had a package like this called "premium plus" which added a nicer dash material (as well as some console areas and door inserts) with colored stitching and an aluminum dash panel. If they did that, then customers that want the "fancier" materials could upgrade to them, while the ones that don't need it could skip that. I won't at all be surprised if/when we see that down the road.

So the summary is - materials and fit-and-finish seemed of good quality and well put together, even if they aren't "fancy" soft touch all over.

I don't know if I've helped much lol. At the end of the day, if you can make it to one of these events, go check it out for yourself. And/or keep in touch with your dealer for if/when they'll get a demo unit in.

 

[ScrunchFace]

100% with this....


----


After reading the comments, I'll give some of my feedback after seeing/being in the interior in person today. I could've sat there all day going around the vehicle with a fine tooth comb, but obviously couldn't do that, and I was definitely excited to be there seeing it in person, but here are some thoughts......

Within the comments, there seemed to be a back and forth on what's "cheap" and what's "not", and what's quality and what's not.

I think it's important to make a distinction between "high quality plastic" from "low-quality tupperwear garbage plastic", as well as something soft-touch (which can give the illusion of "nicer") vs. a textured hard plastic. Something can be a high quality plastic, but be hard textured. On the flip side, it can be low quality and soft touch. And of course there's the middle grounds of high quality/soft touch or low quality hard textured.

The interior is certainly not a Rolls Royce, but it's not a Playskool car either. It didn't feature soft-touch plastics all over that many cars have nowadays. The dash top had what I'll call a rubberized coating - it wasn't "squishy" soft touch, and was solid, but there was a slight rubberized quality to it that kept it from being completely rock hard. Beyond that, the only "squishy" soft-touch areas I noticed were the main "touch points" - your center console cover, steering wheel, door arm rest, and the colored pad on the top of the doors near the handle. Everything else was textured hard plastic.

So if "squishy" soft touch is what you're looking for, you'll likely be disappointed. BUT with that said, though it was pre-production, and despite being hard/textured, the plastics seemed of a high quality to me. As stated above, there can be good quality with hard textured. Fit and finish also seemed good to me, which is another aspect of quality that people seem to be concerned with.

As others have said, the materials chosen were done so for durability and ease-of-cleaning.

I sat in an OBX with Lux today, which is representative of what my Wildtrak will be like aside from the color. I did find myself thinking it'd be nice to have some "fancier" materials (see below) for the pricepoint, but I wasn't concerned about the quality of materials, nor do I see myself changing anything order wise.

I totally understand Bronco's intended purpose and whatnot, and why the materials were chosen. But for the pricepoint at the upper end, I think it would be nice for them to have an interior upgrade OPTION for those that may want it. Something like this would more appropriately be called the LUX package (with current lux better being Tech Package). Mustang had a package like this called "premium plus" which added a nicer dash material (as well as some console areas and door inserts) with colored stitching and an aluminum dash panel. If they did that, then customers that want the "fancier" materials could upgrade to them, while the ones that don't need it could skip that. I won't at all be surprised if/when we see that down the road.

So the summary is - materials and fit-and-finish seemed of good quality and well put together, even if they aren't "fancy" soft touch all over.

I don't know if I've helped much lol. At the end of the day, if you can make it to one of these events, go check it out for yourself. And/or keep in touch with your dealer for if/when they'll get a demo unit in.

Thanks for your input on the interior, it is much appreciated.

I'm looking forward to seeing the vehicle in person and will report back my impressions as well

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