UAW goes on strike @ MAP Bronco / Ranger factory [ADMIN WARNING: NO INSULTS, NO POLITICS]

[AZ_Liberty]

Well if you go by what Farley says UAW employees will be making 300k a year.

He's probably rounding up a bit, but he's not wrong (the figure is cost to the company in pay and benefits, not actual take home) . They currently make around $165k in pay and benefits.

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[Snowdogyyz]

Sure, that's one data point from one person, but I think it's important to look at who is investing in EV tech when trying to decide how things are going to go.

Shell has more EV charging points than gas stations. BP is investing heavily in charging infrastructure. Big oil isn't going to bet against itself, and they're in the best position to see the writing on the wall. THAT should tell you something.

He’s not saying EV isn’t the future. He’s saying it’s not the NOW or near future. Too many charging issues, lack of infrastructure, cold battery issues, etc. He’s working to get charging down to 10 minutes or less. Tesla owns a lot of infrastructure in charging and they’re beginning to share and work with other manufacturers.

 

[AZ_Liberty]

Here’s an EV story for you- my neighbor is an EV battery engineer. He’s neck deep in developing and progressing EV technology and his company works with some or all of the major manufacturers.
He’s bought two new cars since May. Neither is an EV or hybrid. I joked with him “no new EV for you????” He said “that should tell you something……”

I'm also in the industry, in a slightly adjacent space. I drive a Bronco, and have zero interest in a hybrid.

An EV would work for me, wouldn't work for my wife. But one EV in the household would be doable. As a second vehicle, they can be a solid option (other than the price of entry) .

Would never work for my parents, who have a 1-car garage full of stuff, a 100A breaker panel, and a pretty long run to run power from the panel to the driveway.

 

[shoelessjoe]

He's probably rounding up a bit, but he's not wrong (the figure is cost to the company in pay and benefits, not actual take home) . They currently make around $165k in pay and benefits.

You think so?

 

[shoelessjoe]

He's probably rounding up a bit, but he's not wrong (the figure is cost to the company in pay and benefits, not actual take home) . They currently make around $165k in pay and benefits.

To make 200k a year no benefits included you would have to make $96 a hour working no OT.

 

[AZ_Liberty]

He’s not saying EV isn’t the future. He’s saying it’s not the NOW or near future. Too many charging issues, lack of infrastructure, cold battery issues, etc. He’s working to get charging down to 10 minutes or less. Tesla owns a lot of infrastructure in charging and they’re beginning to share and work with other manufacturers.

Sales of EVs will plateau out at 25-30% or so. I have several co-workers who own EVs. Couple Teslas, and a Mercedes.

Own their house (not renters), house is NEW (last 20 years), so the house has a garage, and a 200A service panel. For them, it's easy to charge at home, and installing 240VAC service in the garage was pretty cheap, because both were lucky enough to have the service panel on the outside of the garage wall. So for them, adapting to an EV is easy. (and even then, most have a spouse with an ICE vehicle)

30% of Americans live in apartments. Of the 70% who have houses, roughly half of those homes are old enough to have 80A or 100A service. Some newer ones have 400A service where I live, but a lot of places have old housing stock. EVs are simply not suitable for that market.

 

[Snowdogyyz]

I'm also in the industry, in a slightly adjacent space. I drive a Bronco, and have zero interest in a hybrid.

An EV would work for me, wouldn't work for my wife. But one EV in the household would be doable. As a second vehicle, they can be a solid option (other than the price of entry) .

Would never work for my parents, who have a 1-car garage full of stuff, a 100A breaker panel, and a pretty long run to run power from the panel to the driveway.

Agreed- as a local transport for me it would be useful. As a traveling vehicle- not a chance. I’m not sitting there for 35-45 minutes for an 85% charge.

 

[swamp2]

So why do oems need to support the auto workers dreams of a single income lifestyle that maintains all you mention? Either the spouse starts to pull an income or the single worker gets a better paying job. Nothing stopping anyone from seeking a higher paying job. If that's what workers feel they are owed thats the definition of entitlement

Such a job (or any really) obviously includes no specific guarantees of an ability to have any particular lifestyle. That said, a good auto factory job did enable exactly this for decades. Additionally, most white collar auto jobs do support this and well beyond. Should a blue collar and white collar job pay the same when one likely requires much more education and skills in high demand? No.

I certainly don't believe that folks deserve a comfortable lifestyle without hard work. It's just sad how far from this basic middle class dream one is making the average UAW wage of $25/hr.

 

[shoelessjoe]

I agree with a collective bargaining approach because without it, what leverage do workers have if they don't possess some unique skill that's high in demand? We've seen since the early 80s with supply-side economics that real wages have declined for the average blue-collar worker, but skyrocketed for white-collar workers and executives. Wage inequity is unhealthy for society if it goes on too long. Having said that, there has to be good faith negotiations on both sides. The UAW has to bring something to the table other than bodies - some other benefit - and the company has to recognize they are better off when workers share in a company's success. There is a middle ground.

100% correct.

 

[swamp2]

He's probably rounding up a bit, but he's not wrong (the figure is cost to the company in pay and benefits, not actual take home) . They currently make around $165k in pay and benefits.

Neither the $300k (fully burdened) nor $165k are even close. Peak wage is $32/hr and additional burdened rate (total cost - insurance, benefits, etc.) to OEM is right about 100% or $64/hr total (per GM Authority). That's right about $120k/yr. Again, since this is so often misrepresented, $64k is the in the workers pocket pay (pre-tax of course) and the OEM pays right about the same amount for their benefits.

 

[shoelessjoe]

Ford CEO was paid 1.7million in salary last year plus his regular benefits. The rest were bonuses and stock options. Pay that either wouldn't have value or wouldn't have been given if the company performed poorly. You try to run a 160 billion dollar company and come back here and try to equate that to the guy putting a 30 degree bend in a pipe for exactly 8 hours a day and only 5 days a week asking for the moon and stars. This is factory work. It is no different than someone assembling electronics, making cheese, bottling beer, or making rubbermade totes. There is no skilled labor in these factories any more, those jobs are all done by robots now.

If you don't think there isn't skilled labor in a factory you need to get out more often. Who repairs the robot when it breaks down? Who repairs the line when it breaks down? Who runs new electrical lines when something needs to be added? Who runs all the hydraulic lines when they want to install a new press?

 

[LS2GTO]

Looks like part of your response was cutoff. My vehicle has been built, and latest status is ‘released to carrier’, but does not appear to be assigned to a railcar (I’m in TX so will go by rail). Not sure what that means about where it is currently located, and whether or not there’s a chance it will get shipped during the strike.

My understanding is that Ford / Wayne Assy uses a third party for logistics (moving vehicles around, arranging transport, etc) so if yours has been released to the carrier you MIGHT be in luck….

 

[shoelessjoe]

So why do oems need to support the auto workers dreams of a single income lifestyle that maintains all you mention? Either the spouse starts to pull an income or the single worker gets a better paying job. Nothing stopping anyone from seeking a higher paying job. If that's what workers feel they are owed thats the definition of entitlement

Better yet, group together and start a new auto company. Then the owner can make the big bucks and pay the line workers 32 bucks an hour

One of the most ignorant statements I have heard in a long time.

 

[Lowcountry Bronco]

Ford says 600 workers temporarily laid off due to Michigan Assembly Plant strike - CBS Detroit (cbsnews.com)

Does anyone know what's affected at the Toledo plant? All I've heard is Jeep plant, so are Wranglers not being built either?

I guess that makes sense for like vehicles, both are somewhat niche but have a following and are image vehicles. I know the Missouri plant makes Colorados which is probably doing Chevy a favor to clear out their lots of unsold inventory.

 

[DryYourTears]

Does anyone know what's affected at the Toledo plant? All I've heard is Jeep plant, so are Wranglers not being built either?

I guess that makes sense for like vehicles, both are somewhat niche but have a following and are image vehicles. I know the Missouri plant makes Colorados which is probably doing Chevy a favor to clear out their lots of unsold inventory.

Toledo North makes the Wrangler and Gladiator.

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