Automatic On Demand 4x4...is it worth 10 Benjamins?

[Incognito]

Maybe its in the 7 pages somewhere, but lets start with how you assigned a price tag of $1000 to it. This is presumptive. My impression and feedback is that this might not be a stand alone option but included with Sasquatch but I can't confirm that it is stand alone a la carte or package deal. Was curious how you decided $1000

Varoius prices were created back when the survey pricing was put out to selected reservation holders.

People pooled the various models/options in the surveys and created a best-guess pricing Excell chart.

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[Rick Astley]

When trying to explain the different tractions settings to the GF who has a Ranger Lariat, this video was most useful.

Obviously this is only showing snow conditions, at low speed, but it's a data point and great visual education.

 

[mC.242]

You shouldn't use part time 4x4 on pavement. 4A is only for pavement. There's no overlap, it's a different feature.

While you certainly don't need part-time 4H on dry pavement, it's not going to ruin anything either unless you are cruising 80 mph on the highway regularly. In bad weather on pavement 4H is perfectly fine to use. I think the bigger question here is deciding to use it or not, and when it's appropriate is entirely up to the driver with PT 4x4 vs. 4A/AWD.

 

[Laminar]

While I am a fan of Subarus (the fun ones), I'm not a blind zealot. Although, one might call your classification of junk the opposite end of that same spectrum.

Fair assessment.

 

[jaspercasidino]

Varoius prices were created back when the survey pricing was put out to selected reservation holders.

People pooled the various models/options in the surveys and created a best-guess pricing Excell chart.

Yeah. I made one of those charts and did a WAG (wild ass guess) on it based on relative pricing between the models and standard features. Did the same with aux switches (guessed $500) at far too high based on Superduty option cost ($165 I think). Tried to be conservative in my estimates. A pleasant surprise hopefully for people tomorrow (aka rumored B&P release date!!!)

 

[Incognito]

A pleasant surprise hopefully for people tomorrow (aka rumored B&P release date!!!)

B&P on October 13th?

My take:

 

[Inventor]

B&P on October 13th?

My take:

15th

 

[Incognito]

15th

15th , 15th!!!

Do I hear a 20th??!!??

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

While you certainly don't need part-time 4H on dry pavement, it's not going to ruin anything either unless you are cruising 80 mph on the highway regularly.

By "part-time 4H", are you referring to 4A? If so, that's one thing. If you mean you can sometimes engage 4H mode on dry pavement, I'd argue that stiffly...

 

[Mainerunr]

Your diff is electronicly controlled regardless of which transfer case you buy.

Nope. Trucks without 4A do not have a center diff at all.

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

Nope. Trucks without 4A do not have a center diff at all.

None of them have a center diff, 4A or not. I explained early in this thread, the 4A has a clutch in the transfer case. This clutch is used on-demand to drive the front axle, then disconnected when not needed. When you put a 4A into 4H mode, you're just telling it close that clutch continuously. Trucks without the 4A case probably do have a simpler, more conventional, transfer case that has a solenoid operating a dog clutch to lock the front output to the rear output when you push the 4H button.

In either case, though, I think that D Fresh's point was that the system was controlled electronically, regardless. And that part is true. Using the term "diff" was in error, but also beside the point.

 

[Bmadda]

None of them have a center diff, 4A or not. I explained early in this thread, the 4A has a clutch in the transfer case. This clutch is used on-demand to drive the front axle, then disconnected when not needed. When you put a 4A into 4H mode, you're just telling it close that clutch continuously. Trucks without the 4A case probably do have a simpler, more conventional, transfer case that has a solenoid operating a dog clutch to lock the front output to the rear output when you push the 4H button.

In either case, though, I think that D Fresh's point was that the system was controlled electronically, regardless. And that part is true. Using the term "diff" was in error, but also beside the point.

Kind of right, but it doesn't use the electromag clutch for anything but 4auto. The encoder moves a mechanical synchro for 4h and that stays locked for 4low. At least that's how Ford has always done it. Np253 was the only xfer case that worked the way you describe in gm products years ago. Didnt work well! If the new xfer case works like that I will have no choice but to scrap it!

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

OK, fair enough. Though the older Explorers did seem to use the clutch for 4WD operation, you could force it slip the clutch in 4LO in a tight turn. Either way, it doesn't change the basic premise / point of my post.

 

[Lcubed]

Modern 4H systems work fine on dry pavement. Would I do it at high speeds? No. For long periods of time? No. Not good for wear and not necessary anyway. But the notion it will harm anything if used occasionally is a holdover from a bygone era.

the physics inside the diffs and transfer cases haven't changed.
on high traction surfaces, there's nowhere to dissipate the windup
in the various components, so it's a really bad idea to use 4H
on hard surfaces. it's exactly what 4A or full time AWD with center diffs
is designed for.

 

[Rocketeer Rick]

Modern 4H systems work fine on dry pavement. Would I do it at high speeds? No. For long periods of time? No. Not good for wear and not necessary anyway. But the notion it will harm anything if used occasionally is a holdover from a bygone era.

No its not. Modern 4WD systems still have no accommodation of front to rear differentiation. I am speaking of operating in the 4H mode, not any sort of 4A mode or full-time system. In a "modern 4H system", the the front axle is still locked to the rear axle. That has long been reason that it isn't used on dry pavement, and the 4H mode in a modern truck doesn't change that.

Any time you drive around a turn/curve/bend, the front axle swings around a larger radius in the turn than the rear does. So, the front axle wants to roll at a higher speed than the rear. The front is always faster than the rear, regardless of direction of turn. That's why you need a center diff or a means of decoupling the front. When you run in 4H on dry pavement, you wind the difference in speed into the whole front drivetrain. It will continue to wind up like a torsion spring until you do something to relieve it. That's just as true today as it was in the 1950s.

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