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Diff Drop with 37s - Have you had any problems with your CV axles

Built2Wild

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I am currently running 35s with a diff drop since I raised the suspension. I mainly did it to maintain the factory geometry but now I am considering 37s and would like to hear from those who are on 37s with a diff drop. Also include if you are using upgraded parts such a spline 32 CV/ultimate dan 44 front diff.
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87-Z28

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I am currently running 35s with a diff drop since I raised the suspension. I mainly did it to maintain the factory geometry
A diff drop doesn’t really maintain oem geometry. It only helps improve CV half shaft angles at full shock extended length. I would keep the extended shock length under 24.3” and run the ufdu. Better solution for 37-38s if you are pushing things and has a much improved intermediate shaft.

I know I am in the minority here but not a diff drop fan. It is really just a band aid fix that is only minimally effective. Need to really drop diff (2+ inches in many cases) to get back to oem CV angles and then plunge becomes a real concern. Not worth the effort.

first figure shows CV angles as a function of shock displacement during a suspension cycle. Zero shock displacement is at full extension. Oem CV geometry is shown (angles snd plunge). Also shown is a typical aftermarket shock with the extended length of 24.3” (4WP coilover but many fall into this range including fox and king). Also shown is the 4WP shock with a 1” spacer increasing effective extended length to 25.3”.

Ford Bronco Diff Drop with 37s - Have you had any problems with your CV axles IMG_8709


notice that CV angles significantly increase with increasing shock extended length. This is why the diff drop is considered since it can decrease those angles. Also notice the CV plunge remains fairly tight and less than +/- 3 mm. This is because of the OEM location for inner CV pivot point on half shafts. This point has been located along the line of action between LCA and UCA pivots. Thereby necessarily minimizing CV plunge.

adding a diff drop will move the inner CV pivot point downward and thus begin to effect CV plunge. The question is how much can a diff drop really help CV angles and how bad does plunge get?

second plot shows 24.3” extended length shock with a 1” diff drop. Also shows a 25.3” EL shock with a 2” diff drop. Notice CV plunge begins to increase as diff drop distance increases. CV limits for plunge are in the +/- 10 mm range. So a 1” diff drop is still within limits but 2” is not. Starting to get serious plunge >20 mm. Also notice that it really takes near 2” of diff drop to get back to stock CV angles.

Ford Bronco Diff Drop with 37s - Have you had any problems with your CV axles IMG_8710
 

Fordified1

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Explain what plunge is for clarity to the masses please. And on the other thread also. And what can happen if there is too much plunge. I get it but some might not.
 

87-Z28

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For OEM style CVs, the axles are free to move (not restrained) along their axis (longitudinally). This allows for some misalignment along CV axis as the wheel moves up and down during suspension cycling.

For example, consider the imaginary distance from wheel hub center to the half shaft insertion into FDU. Call this “plunge”. If this distance decreases during a suspension cycle then there is positive plunge. If it increases then negative plunge. If the plunge were rigidly fixed or constrained, then CV would pull apart during negative plunge.

The oem CVs have a maximum allowable angle that is related to plunge. If they operate near zero plunge (+/- <10 mm) then they have the greatest allowable angle. As plunge increases, either pos or neg, their allowable angle decreases. They are fairly symmetric wrt pos or neg plunge. From oem CV allowable angles vs plunge, 10 mm of plunge is a reasonable limit state and will get you close to 30 deg of angle.
 
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I have a diff drop and run 38s

It's from a RC 2.5" lift kit... I think it's about 1" or so of drop - not sure exactly. The kit came installed when I bought the Bronco from the dealer, and I just left the drop kit on as I've upgraded around it.

No issues at all with the CVs with either the m190 (60k miles) or m210 (25k miles) - but the engine mid-skid plate did need a bit of attention to clear the lower FDU casing.
 

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For OEM style CVs, the axles are free to move (not restrained) along their axis (longitudinally). This allows for some misalignment along CV axis as the wheel moves up and down during suspension cycling.

For example, consider the imaginary distance from wheel hub center to the half shaft insertion into FDU. Call this “plunge”. If this distance decreases during a suspension cycle then there is positive plunge. If it increases then negative plunge. If the plunge were rigidly fixed or constrained, then CV would pull apart during negative plunge.

The oem CVs have a maximum allowable angle that is related to plunge. If they operate near zero plunge (+/- <10 mm) then they have the greatest allowable angle. As plunge increases, either pos or neg, their allowable angle decreases. They are fairly symmetric wrt pos or neg plunge. I have seen some actual design plots of the ford oem CV allowable angles vs plunge, 10 mm of plunge is a reasonable limit state and will get you close to 30 deg of angle.
pictures to help gain a visual perspective

Ford Bronco Diff Drop with 37s - Have you had any problems with your CV axles IMG_8887


Ford Bronco Diff Drop with 37s - Have you had any problems with your CV axles IMG_8888
 

87-Z28

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I have a diff drop and run 38s

It's from a RC 2.5" lift kit... I think it's about 1" or so of drop - not sure exactly. The kit came installed when I bought the Bronco from the dealer, and I just left the drop kit on as I've upgraded around it.

No issues at all with the CVs with either the m190 (60k miles) or m210 (25k miles) - but the engine mid-skid plate did need a bit of attention to clear the lower FDU casing.
A 1” diff drop is fine. Even 1.5” is probably ok. Just not a fan since there is diminishing returns with minimal gain. The other two posts are just a long winded way of saying that. I would go a different route.
 

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A 1” diff drop is fine. Even 1.5” is probably ok. Just not a fan since there is diminishing returns with minimal gain. The other two posts are just a long winded way of saying that. I would go a different route.
No I agree with your posts. If I didn't already have one, I wouldn't look at putting one in necessarily. But if it's already there, dunno that I'd go ripping it out either.
 

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Vasher does not screw around.
He is very thorough. He’d never worked with the 32 spline axles or UFDU so I had to send him the axles and he tore them apart for angle and plunge measurements. He then had me take diligent notes on the FDU placement on the mullet bronco to get as accurate as possible on the center bars being the correct length. It was a process.
 

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You guys are talking way over my head but the innovation diff drop I have was to address CV angles at droop with my original spacer lift and there was talk about plunge in designing it…I have not had any driveline/axle problems with it and even think it reduces cv angle at ride height…since install I have switched to procomp coilovers and 37s and kept it…I am no engineer but I have bought the “kool aid” and it seems good…
 

87-Z28

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You guys are talking way over my head but the innovation diff drop I have was to address CV angles at droop with my original spacer lift and there was talk about plunge in designing it…I have not had any driveline/axle problems with it and even think it reduces cv angle at ride height…since install I have switched to procomp coilovers and 37s and kept it…I am no engineer but I have bought the “kool aid” and it seems good…
A small diff drop (1”) keeps plunge in check (<10 mm) and is no concern. It will reduce CV angles across the board, both at droop and ride height. This is real not koolaid.
 

userdude

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A diff drop doesn’t really maintain oem geometry. It only helps improve CV half shaft angles at full shock extended length. I would keep the extended shock length under 24.3” and run the ufdu. Better solution for 37-38s if you are pushing things and has a much improved intermediate shaft.

I know I am in the minority here but not a diff drop fan. It is really just a band aid fix that is only minimally effective. Need to really drop diff (2+ inches in many cases) to get back to oem CV angles and then plunge becomes a real concern. Not worth the effort.

first figure shows CV angles as a function of shock displacement during a suspension cycle. Zero shock displacement is at full extension. Oem CV geometry is shown (angles snd plunge). Also shown is a typical aftermarket shock with the extended length of 24.3” (4WP coilover but many fall into this range including fox and king). Also shown is the 4WP shock with a 1” spacer increasing effective extended length to 25.3”.

IMG_8709.webp


notice that CV angles significantly increase with increasing shock extended length. This is why the diff drop is considered since it can decrease those angles. Also notice the CV plunge remains fairly tight and less than +/- 3 mm. This is because of the OEM location for inner CV pivot point on half shafts. This point has been located along the line of action between LCA and UCA pivots. Thereby necessarily minimizing CV plunge.

adding a diff drop will move the inner CV pivot point downward and thus begin to effect CV plunge. The question is how much can a diff drop really help CV angles and how bad does plunge get?

second plot shows 24.3” extended length shock with a 1” diff drop. Also shows a 25.3” EL shock with a 2” diff drop. Notice CV plunge begins to increase as diff drop distance increases. CV limits for plunge are in the +/- 10 mm range. So a 1” diff drop is still within limits but 2” is not. Starting to get serious plunge >20 mm. Also notice that it really takes near 2” of diff drop to get back to stock CV angles.

IMG_8710.webp
My plots came out different. 🤔

Ford Bronco Diff Drop with 37s - Have you had any problems with your CV axles 1785766746245-lk
 

87-Z28

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My plots came out different. 🤔

1785766746245-lk.webp

Not really. Both our plots achieve the same level of understanding by the viewer.

Just to be clear. There is a general acceptance that a diff drop corrects geometry back to OEM. This is not true. That is the reason for the original posts and plots. There is a nuance that those who are interested can think about. A diff drop does however absolutely reduce CV angles.

The OP was asking about running 37-38s and a diff drop. A small diff drop is fine but kind of a Band-Aid. If shock extended length is >24.3” then CVs won’t be happy. SO KEEP LENGTH UNDER 24.3”. If wheeling on the hard side, I would run the ufdu with 37-38s and skip the diff drop. Axles before lights.
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