2 Door Race red Wildtrak build. Custom FAB and CNC machining!

[5GENIDN]

They are machined aluminum housings, so way lighter then if they were cast. What university did you work at?



I read your other posts about this. Question, in a helical ger setup how much force is converted from rotational force to axial force?

Hopefully that question makes sense. I went to school to be a RN, not an engineer .

First North Idaho College and then Boise State University... (yes I am a bronco that drives a bronco... lol) To be honest It was only an entry level class. We were not expanding the bounds of knowledge just learning what wheels had been created.

How much force goes axially? That depends on the design. A lot of factors go into that. but think of it this way... You want to push a box across a floor. If the floor is flat all of the energy goes into moving that box straight across the floor... (Not factoring friction)..... Now if that floor is sloped upward and you apply that force in the exact same plane, only a portion of that force moves the box across the floor, and a percent of that force is spent on lifting that box in a vertical direction. All you have to do is look at a helical gear set to know the gear teeth are not perpendicular to the force being applied. Just like a sloped floor is not perpendicular to the direction you want to move the box.

I need to find a better way to explain this.... I need my white board.

Let me promise you it is considerable..... Think about how much force is required to be transmitted through that gear set to turn those tires.... There is a lot of force there. The force transmitted through the gear is perpendicular (simplified version) to the contact.

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[Talon2006]

Funny, you can always spot a Houston-area front yard. Portals!

Is it the trees? I feel like I have the most un Houston like property in the area. There should be 15 town homes on this 1/2 acer plot of land!

 

[userdude]

Is it the trees? I feel like I have the most un Houston like property in the area. There should be 15 town homes on this 1/2 acer plot of land!

The trees, the grass, the copious amount of green, the front yard ditch, the color of the sunlight, the sea level flatness, the barely civilized jungle atmosphere. I don't know, it's just kinda Houston. I'm from East Houston, I-10 and Beltway 8, and it generally looks like that. If I were to guess, say maybe Baytown, Atascocita, Crosby? But yeah, I went straight to the pics then scrolled back up to check!

 

[BAUS67]

First North Idaho College and then Boise State University... (yes I am a bronco that drives a bronco... lol) To be honest It was only an entry level class. We were not expanding the bounds of knowledge just learning what wheels had been created.

How much force goes axially? That depends on the design. A lot of factors go into that. but think of it this way... You want to push a box across a floor. If the floor is flat all of the energy goes into moving that box straight across the floor... (Not factoring friction)..... Now if that floor is sloped upward and you apply that force in the exact same plane, only a portion of that force moves the box across the floor, and a percent of that force is spent on lifting that box in a vertical direction. All you have to do is look at a helical gear set to know the gear teeth are not perpendicular to the force being applied. Just like a sloped floor is not perpendicular to the direction you want to move the box.

I need to find a better way to explain this.... I need my white board.

Let me promise you it is considerable..... Think about how much force is required to be transmitted through that gear set to turn those tires.... There is a lot of force there. The force transmitted through the gear is perpendicular (simplified version) to the contact.

It is hard to describe stuff by typing it. That old adage a picture is worth 1000 words is so very true.

Quinn does go into axial load and its effect on straight cut and helical cut gears in his portal video. He also explains with straight cut you can keep the overall package a bit narrower. His gearsets have 2 points of load, i.e bearing on the inside and bearing on the outside. He also explains that his lower gear set is supported twice in the portal and the unit bearing acts like a third point of support.

 

[5GENIDN]

It is hard to describe stuff by typing it. That old adage a picture is worth 1000 words is so very true.

Quinn does go into axial load and its effect on straight cut and helical cut gears in his portal video. He also explains with straight cut you can keep the overall package a bit narrower. His gearsets have 2 points of load, i.e bearing on the inside and bearing on the outside. He also explains that his lower gear set is supported twice in the portal and the unit bearing acts like a third point of support. All of this is to combat axial load.

Well yea... straight cut gears have NO axial load.... every bit of force is applied directly perpendicular to the contact angle.... Which is perpendicular to the rotational force measured at the tangent. That dramatically simplifies the bearing design.

 

[BAUS67]

Well yea... straight cut gears have NO axial load.... every bit of force is applied directly perpendicular to the contact angle.... Which is perpendicular to the rotational force measured at the tangent. That dramatically simplifies the bearing design.

Yeah........that's what he was saying. I axed the last sentence in my post.

 

[5GENIDN]

Yeah........that's what he was saying. I axed the last sentence in my post.

Sorry I am not adding value to what he already said... When I get home I will look to see what drawings I have from my old classes... I hope I still have them. Used to do lots and lots of power points and then we would have a discussion while drawing on the white board. Then we would all start calculations for different ratio tooth designs. Engagement lengths and patterns tolerances etc. Then we would draw them up in CAD. When we switched to Dasault software we got to start doing stress analysis of the different gear sets... That was cool.

 

[Strizzo]

The trees, the grass, the copious amount of green, the front yard ditch, the color of the sunlight, the sea level flatness, the barely civilized jungle atmosphere. I don't know, it's just kinda Houston. I'm from East Houston, I-10 and Beltway 8, and it generally looks like that. If I were to guess, say maybe Baytown, Atascocita, Crosby? But yeah, I went straight to the pics then scrolled back up to check!

I would say spring cypress or tomball, but there are some parts of oak forest/garden oaks that look like that. Theres even million+ dollar homes where the driveway just rolls through the ditch, no culvert!

 

[5GENIDN]

They are machined aluminum housings, so way lighter then if they were cast. What university did you work at?



I read your other posts about this. Question, in a helical ger setup how much force is converted from rotational force to axial force?

Hopefully that question makes sense. I went to school to be a RN, not an engineer .

It is not letting me post an old power point I found but here is a quiz.....

 

[userdude]

I would say spring cypress or tomball, but there are some parts of oak forest/garden oaks that look like that. Theres even million+ dollar homes where the driveway just rolls through the ditch, no culvert!

Well see, now you're talking the other side of town. Not that familiar with those parts. The few times I've been through there, was kinda shocked how much water there was just lyin' around. Houston is a crazy place.

 

[Snacktime]

How is the steering force offroad? Did you jump up to Hoss 3.0 setup?

I know my Hoss 3.0 runs out of steam in the snow, but haven't had any issues in the rocks.

Got any photos of the new 4 banger skid installed? I want a side shot!

 

[Talon2006]

First North Idaho College and then Boise State University... (yes I am a bronco that drives a bronco... lol) To be honest It was only an entry level class. We were not expanding the bounds of knowledge just learning what wheels had been created.

How much force goes axially? That depends on the design. A lot of factors go into that. but think of it this way... You want to push a box across a floor. If the floor is flat all of the energy goes into moving that box straight across the floor... (Not factoring friction)..... Now if that floor is sloped upward and you apply that force in the exact same plane, only a portion of that force moves the box across the floor, and a percent of that force is spent on lifting that box in a vertical direction. All you have to do is look at a helical gear set to know the gear teeth are not perpendicular to the force being applied. Just like a sloped floor is not perpendicular to the direction you want to move the box.

I need to find a better way to explain this.... I need my white board.

Let me promise you it is considerable..... Think about how much force is required to be transmitted through that gear set to turn those tires.... There is a lot of force there. The force transmitted through the gear is perpendicular (simplified version) to the contact.

I totally get what you are saying, but what I wonder how much force are you losing from the axial loading? 1% 5%? 15%? (Doctor evil voice) one million percent?

How is the steering force offroad? Did you jump up to Hoss 3.0 setup?

I know my Hoss 3.0 runs out of steam in the snow, but haven't had any issues in the rocks.

Got any photos of the new 4 banger skid installed? I want a side shot!

It should be a nice flat transition between the cross members. I guess technically I could bend the plate up closer to the transmission pan…. But imho flat between crossmembers is the best. Plus the exhaust pipe starts to get into the way at the rear of the transmission.


I am working on getting a 4 Cylinder bronco here to test fit. It will likely fit. In the past 4-5 things I have made I have only had one hole be 1/16” off.

 

[Snacktime]

It should be a nice flat transition between the cross members. I guess technically I could bend the plate up closer to the transmission pan…. But imho flat between crossmembers is the best. Plus the exhaust pipe starts to get into the way at the rear of the transmission.

Flat is fine, skids self clearance with use. Got to watch if you clear the factory sway bar disconnect, since 50% of bronco made are equipped with it.

 

[5GENIDN]

I totally get what you are saying, but what I wonder how much force are you losing from the axial loading? 1% 5%? 15%? (Doctor evil voice) one million percent?



It should be a nice flat transition between the cross members. I guess technically I could bend the plate up closer to the transmission pan…. But imho flat between crossmembers is the best. Plus the exhaust pipe starts to get into the way at the rear of the transmission.


I am working on getting a 4 Cylinder bronco here to test fit. It will likely fit. In the past 4-5 things I have made I have only had one hole be 1/16” off.

Those look like some nice plates you are making!

As far as axil loading.... I would need the gear design and software to analyze.... but I will put some rough sketches together tonight to help visualize what the axial loading could be.... In very simple terms... Like I said I no longer have the software available to me.

 

[Talon2006]

Those look like some nice plates you are making!

As far as axil loading.... I would need the gear design and software to analyze.... but I will put some rough sketches together tonight to help visualize what the axial loading could be.... In very simple terms... Like I said I no longer have the software available to me.

What I am wondering is this. How much power are you really losing from the force vectoring, and how much force is really applied to the side of the case? Is t really enough to really matter? Is it enough force to shoot through the side of the case and kill a bus full of nuns...? It is interesting discussion though. My seat of the pants dyno though says all is good, and I am having a ton of fun with these so far, which is really all I care about at this point.

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