Article: What Can the 2021 Ford Bronco Learn from the Toyota FJ Cruiser?

[BroncoRevital]

This article should be " What can the Bronco learn what NOT to do from the FJ Cruiser ".

The article makes some good points on what it should do but it can learn more from what Toyota did wrong.

To me what the FJ Cruiser did wrong wasn't actually much. However, styling wasn't great. They tried to go like half ass retro.
It seemed to look like a big compromise. Though it could actually off-road fairly well it still looked too bubbly and had very poor vision out of it. The suicide door thing was a decent idea but really didn't work well.

So what the Bronco can learn from it is:

1. Don't compromise it's look too much. People want these SUV's to look rugged. Not a watered down version of their old selves.
2. Make it more functional. Make it 2 and 4 doors. Make it easy to see out off. Removable doors/roof.
3. Make it powerful yet economical. That's a tall task but we have better tech now. Make a hybrid version, make a version that's over 300 horse power. Give people at least some options.
4. Make it like the Jeep just a little more refined inside and out. Not make it like a Hummer H2.
5. Try too keep it light, narrow and nimble.

I think the FJ could have kept going strong if the recession didn't hit and it got an update.
Ford has a great chance now that the FJ didn't get. A chance to learn from Toyota (FJ), GM (Hummer) and Jeep. To make a capable SUV that's more refined yet rugged and true to its roots. Jeep does well and is getting more refined but is still limited that way. Ford needs to be at least very close to as capable as Jeep yet being more refined and comfortable (hopefully more powerful) then a Jeep . That's it.

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[Wanted33]

and FJs were sold until 2016 in Australia https://www.caradvice.com.au/443137/toyota-fj-cruiser-production-to-end-in-august/

and the Phillipines,

it is still on sale in the Middle East to this day

actually I am about to buy a used one probably pretty soon, on Monday I am heading to the seller's place to check / test the car, if it turns out OK and fit for my needs then I am probably forgetting about the Bronco for a while... I don't care about retro / looks / legends ... heck it's a Toyota after all - at least is a 4.0 V6 N/A engine

I know it sound blasphemous, but please don't judge / criticize me for the decisions I am about to take

Not to worry Laszlo. And a born, and bred Ford guy I have strayed. I just bought a Wrangler 3 weeks ago, and my old friends think I have lost my mind. However, Ford can can possibly exorcise my demons if the Bronco is done right.

 

[OX1]

The body width of wrangler, along with completely removable flares (leaving only wheels/tires
sticking out, which don't care much what they run into or drag along), and narrowed front end,
is huge advantage Ford will not be able to duplicate (and some might say don't want to due to
narrow cabin space).

But they could at least make some type of removable flare/lower fender std. It would impact cost a bit,
but go along way towards the aftermarket making wider flares and vendors more easily making extreme builds
that will further the image (even if 98.6% never go offroad, they like the talk on how badass their ride
"could" be)..........

 

[Jimmy]

I agree with most of what was said, but I have to just chime in on this portion...

Retro definitely is out of style. The FJ was designed during a short period of time when overall vehicle design had grown stale, and automakers had to do SOMETHING to stand out. This something was to revert to one of the most beloved era's of automotive design; the 60s. However, cars in the 60s weren't designed with things like safety, aerodynamics, or fuel efficiency in mind like modern cars are. Therefore, most of the retro-designed modern cars turned out looking bloated, bubbly, and bland in comparison, which is a style that provided a cool bit of nostalgia when it first came along but died very quickly. I believe we currently live (or lived, about 3 or so years ago) in a golden age of automotive design, as there aren't too many cars out there that I would really consider "ugly". A lot of them use retro cues, but not to the point that they look like a bootleg'd version of a once-great car (see; Mustang), and are VERY sexy in their own, unique way. I think Ford would be able to stay true to the Bronco heritage yet make it look more modern if they based their design more off of F150 design cues with little retro bronco bits thrown in and keeping the same overall proportions and purpose of a bronco.

FWIW, if you don't believe me that retro is out of style, check out the FJ's sales numbers since its debut in 2006, despite rising popularity in SUVs in general;
2018 1
2017 4
2016 9
2015 229
2014 14,718
2013 13,131
2012 13,655
2011 13,541
2010 14,959
2009 11,941
2008 28,668
2007 55,170
2006 56,225

"Retro is definitely out of style...."
You drive a 2018 Mustang.
Complete with a pony on the grill, a faux fastback panel behind the side windows/b pillar, and tail lights that harken back to the 1960s. That vehicle is the MOST retro of any 2 door made by the big three at this point in time.
Bullitt Editons, California Editions, Shelby...

 

[tokyo]

I also was expecting the article to go through what the FJ did wrong and outline what Ford should NOT do..

It was a very weird article on what I think was a failed model.

The economy probably hurt.. but the 4Runner and Tacoma survived just fine so?

My list of why it failed and I never bought one

1. Heavy.. no significant weight or performance advantage over a 4runner and without the space or utility
2. Claustrophobic interior.. Getting in one feels like looking out a German concrete bunker on Normandy. That combined with no removable top makes forays into the outdoors kind of meaningless.. have to enjoy the scenery through gun slit windows.
3. Goofy styling.. In this case retro didn't work for me
4. Mod-unfriendly .. The first thing anybody wants to do is throw on bigger wheels and tires. With IFS and small wheel wells it is just too expensive
5. Slow and boring to drive .. Reliable as an anvil but about as fun to own

In the end it was just a goofy looking stubby 4runner that was hard to see out of.

So Ford..
1. Use that aluminum body tech to save a few hundred lbs over a wrangler!
2. Big windows and removable top!
3. Styling seems to be on target!
4. Solid axles or IFS with big open wheel wells!
5. 2.7 Ecoboost base engine with a 5.0 Coyote option!

Just my personal opinion

 

[BroncoRevital]

and FJs were sold until 2016 in Australia https://www.caradvice.com.au/443137/toyota-fj-cruiser-production-to-end-in-august/

and the Phillipines,

it is still on sale in the Middle East to this day

actually I am about to buy a used one probably pretty soon, on Monday I am heading to the seller's place to check / test the car, if it turns out OK and fit for my needs then I am probably forgetting about the Bronco for a while... I don't care about retro / looks / legends ... heck it's a Toyota after all - at least is a 4.0 V6 N/A engine

I know it sound blasphemous, but please don't judge / criticize me for the decisions I am about to take

Not to worry Laszlo. And a born, and bred Ford guy I have strayed. I just bought a Wrangler 3 weeks ago, and my old friends think I have lost my mind. However, Ford can can possibly exorcise my demons if the Bronco is done right.

I don't blame anyone for buying a Wrangler these days. It's the pinnacle for an off-road vehicle for trials and modifying. Unless you're rich enough to buy a Humvee but that's overkill anyway.

I'm of course a Ford guy but you have to give Jeep it's respects and Ford has nothing to compete with it since the Bronco left us. The Explorer was never intended to compete. I've never been a Jeep guy because Jeep just has always seemed basic and your generic by default off-road vehicle, IMO. Of course that's kinda silly but I've always been more into SUV's that can be like a Jeep. Because let's not kid ourselves, Jeep Wrangler sets the bar and always has. It's fun to have that rivalry but just dumb to fault someone for choosing a Jeep.

Thank god Ford is finally joining this off-road segment again. For me it's worth the wait right now as I know Ford is going to do it right. The Raptor is such an impressive vehicle and shows Ford still knows what it's doing. I was seriously considering the 4Runner before we got conformation on the Bronco. What's going to set the Bronco apart form the 4Runner is the open roof ( and hopefully removable doors ). What's going to separate it from a Wrangler is it will be more civil and comfortable. To me that's the perfect fit. A better daily driver that's as fun as a Jeep. For me that's worth waiting for and why the Bronco will succeed.

Anyway, just wanted to run my mouth a bit on that

 

[Jimmy]

This article should be " What can the Bronco learn what NOT to do from the FJ Cruiser ".

The article makes some good points on what it should do but it can learn more from what Toyota did wrong.

To me what the FJ Cruiser did wrong wasn't actually much. However, styling wasn't great. They tried to go like half ass retro.
It seemed to look like a big compromise. Though it could actually off-road fairly well it still looked too bubbly and had very poor vision out of it. The suicide door thing was a decent idea but really didn't work well.

So what the Bronco can learn from it is:

1. Don't compromise it's look too much. People want these SUV's to look rugged. Not a watered down version of their old selves.
2. Make it more functional. Make it 2 and 4 doors. Make it easy to see out off. Removable doors/roof.
3. Make it powerful yet economical. That's a tall task but we have better tech now. Make a hybrid version, make a version that's over 300 horse power. Give people at least some options.
4. Make it like the Jeep just a little more refined inside and out. Not make it like a Hummer H2.
5. Try too keep it light, narrow and nimble.

I think the FJ could have kept going strong if the recession didn't hit and it got an update.
Ford has a great chance now that the FJ didn't get. A chance to learn from Toyota (FJ), GM (Hummer) and Jeep. To make a capable SUV that's more refined yet rugged and true to its roots. Jeep does well and is getting more refined but is still limited that way. Ford needs to be at least very close to as capable as Jeep yet being more refined and comfortable (hopefully more powerful) then a Jeep . That's it.

From what I recall, the main reason they discontinued it was because they went to a new 4Runner model. The old one that underpinned the FJ went away. It was horrible to see out of, but built like a tank.
The new 4Runner is grossly underpowered. That forces those that want a V-8 to buy the Toyota in a Tuxedo...Lexus

 

[Jake_zx2]

"Retro is definitely out of style...."
You drive a 2018 Mustang.
Complete with a pony on the grill, a faux fastback panel behind the side windows/b pillar, and tail lights that harken back to the 1960s. That vehicle is the MOST retro of any 2 door made by the big three at this point in time.
Bullitt Editons, California Editions, Shelby...

Interesting...

So, a logo for the car, a rear quarter window, and LED taillights make a car retro? Someone call Germany and tell them that their Mercedes CLA is the most retro American car on the market!

No, the 2018 Mustang is not even remotely retro. It has minor styling cues that make sure everyone knows it's a Mustang, but it is in no way retro. The 05-14 models certainly WERE retro, and they have not aged well at all

 

[BroncoMike]

I think we're splitting hairs. "Retro" in the most strict sense would be a duplicate of the original. "Styling cues" in the loosest sense would be a hint of a body line or modernized taillight shape. The package, taken as a whole, is so much more than the latter. My guess is we'll see neither extreme from Ford in the Bronco, just as the current Musting is far less than strict retro yet far more than a few loosely interpreted design points taken from the old Mustangs.

I hope Ford goes for what we have in the modern (2005-current) Mustang line: starting out closer to the original, and evolving over an extended product lifespan to a more modern interpretation from there. The end result should be something that not only today's consumer recognizes as a Bronco in design and function, but a time traveler from 1971 would easily recognize as a future iteration of his contemporary steed. I believe they achieved that in even the current body Mustang: my early '70's self would pick that out as a Mustang from the future all day long if it dropped from the sky into my elementary school parking lot - my dad had a '69 Mach 1.

 

[Jake_zx2]

I think we're splitting hairs. "Retro" in the most strict sense would be a duplicate of the original. "Styling cues" in the loosest sense would be a hint of a body line or modernized taillight shape. The package, taken as a whole, is so much more than the latter. My guess is we'll see neither extreme from Ford in the Bronco, just as the current Musting is far less than strict retro yet far more than a few loosely interpreted design points taken from the old Mustangs.

I hope Ford goes for what we have in the modern (2005-current) Mustang line: starting out closer to the original, and evolving over an extended product lifespan to a more modern interpretation from there. The end result should be something that not only today's consumer recognizes as a Bronco in design and function, but a time traveler from 1971 would easily recognize as a future iteration of his contemporary steed. I believe they achieved that in even the current body Mustang: my early '70's self would pick that out as a Mustang from the future all day long if it dropped from the sky into my elementary school parking lot - my dad had a '69 Mach 1.

I'd really love if they just put the same philosophy of the S550 into the design of the bronco... just enough styling cues to know it's a bronco (For the Mustang, tri-bar taillights, haunched rear fenders, long-hood-short-deck fastback design... for the bronco, square body, removable roof, rectangular grille, design cues shared with F-series), but not some sort of retro-wannabe bastardization of a 1968 Bronco

 

[BroncoRevital]

I agree with most of what was said, but I have to just chime in on this portion...

Retro definitely is out of style. The FJ was designed during a short period of time when overall vehicle design had grown stale, and automakers had to do SOMETHING to stand out. This something was to revert to one of the most beloved era's of automotive design; the 60s. However, cars in the 60s weren't designed with things like safety, aerodynamics, or fuel efficiency in mind like modern cars are. Therefore, most of the retro-designed modern cars turned out looking bloated, bubbly, and bland in comparison, which is a style that provided a cool bit of nostalgia when it first came along but died very quickly. I believe we currently live (or lived, about 3 or so years ago) in a golden age of automotive design, as there aren't too many cars out there that I would really consider "ugly". A lot of them use retro cues, but not to the point that they look like a bootleg'd version of a once-great car (see; Mustang), and are VERY sexy in their own, unique way. I think Ford would be able to stay true to the Bronco heritage yet make it look more modern if they based their design more off of F150 design cues with little retro bronco bits thrown in and keeping the same overall proportions and purpose of a bronco.

FWIW, if you don't believe me that retro is out of style, check out the FJ's sales numbers since its debut in 2006, despite rising popularity in SUVs in general;
2018 1
2017 4
2016 9
2015 229
2014 14,718
2013 13,131
2012 13,655
2011 13,541
2010 14,959
2009 11,941
2008 28,668
2007 55,170
2006 56,225

As far as retro goes, retro is definitely still a thing. This Bronco would not be happening if it wasn't. The Challenger, Charger, Mustang, Camaro, Ranger, Supra ect. would not be in high demand if it wasn't.

I know what you mean though, styling has more turned to retro cues rather then trying a modern duplicate. I think if Ford was going the retro duplicate rout with the Bronco it would look more like the 04 concept. Cool idea but not what I'm hoping for either. I'd rather it take some hints from past Broncos and definitely be recognized as a Bronco but not a full modern take on the 66 Bronco.
I really don't want them to design it around the F150 though or the Ranger for that matter. I liked my FB but Id much rather them make this Bronco more unique

 

[Jake_zx2]

As far as retro goes, retro is definitely still a thing. This Bronco would not be happening if it wasn't. The Challenger, Charger, Mustang, Camaro, Ranger, Supra ect. would not be in high demand if it wasn't.

I know what you mean though, styling has more turned to retro cues rather then trying a modern duplicate. I think if Ford was going the retro duplicate rout with the Bronco it would look more like the 04 concept. Cool idea but not what I'm hoping for either. I'd rather it take some hints from past Broncos and definitely be recognized as a Bronco but not a full modern take on the 66 Bronco.
I really don't want them to design it around the F150 though or the Ranger for that matter. I liked my FB but Id much rather them make this Bronco more unique

Yeah, I'm referring to retro styling, as I was replying to the styling portion of OP. None of the aforementioned cars have retro-inspired designs (save for the challenger, which probably wouldn't sell so well if it weren't for the hood rich stigma) and are connected to their retro counterparts by name and little head nods only.

Really, if Ford actually DID release something more similar to the 04 Bronco for this Bronco, it wouldn't sell to anyone under 60. I don't think anyone who would actually buy the car would be very happy about that

 

[Jimmy]

Interesting...

So, a logo for the car, a rear quarter window, and LED taillights make a car retro? Someone call Germany and tell them that their Mercedes CLA is the most retro American car on the market!

No, the 2018 Mustang is not even remotely retro. It has minor styling cues that make sure everyone knows it's a Mustang, but it is in no way retro. The 05-14 models certainly WERE retro, and they have not aged well at all

Read what Edmunds has to say about the current Mustang interior...retro.
Long heavy doors, cramped back seat with driveshaft tunnel dividing it, long hood with poor visibility. They are even using torque thrust styled wheels on some editions. Cowl like dashboard layout. Exhaust details @ fairing.
Great engine, solid manual transmission. Overall the best American muscle car.
We owned a Fox body in the 80s, and a Cobra in early 2000's. They were not retro.
Latest is completely retro. Not a bad thing, but it is what it is.

BTW, the CLA is basically a Honda Accord clone with a German badge.

 

[BroncoRevital]

Yeah, I'm referring to retro styling, as I was replying to the styling portion of OP. None of the aforementioned cars have retro-inspired designs (save for the challenger, which probably wouldn't sell so well if it weren't for the hood rich stigma) and are connected to their retro counterparts by name and little head nods only.

Really, if Ford actually DID release something more similar to the 04 Bronco for this Bronco, it wouldn't sell to anyone under 60. I don't think anyone who would actually buy the car would be very happy about that

What do you mean? All of those cars have retro inspired designs. Like I said, not like a duplicate but yes all are very inspired by their past. Otherwise they'ed just name them something totally different.

I think you miss read my last statement about the 04 Bronco concept. I don't think that's a good idea either and wouldn't sell. However, taking some styling from it like the concept on this site is a great idea and I have no problem with that.

 

[Jimmy]

What do you mean? All of those cars have retro inspired designs. Like I said, not like a duplicate but yes all are very inspired by their past. Otherwise they'ed just name them something totally different.

I think you miss read my last statement about the 04 Bronco concept. I don't think that's a good idea either and wouldn't sell. However, taking some styling from it like the concept on this site is a great idea and I have no problem with that.

Maybe they can design it like the new Chevy Blazer and there will be a waiting list... (ha) The guy is called out and should just move on.
A Ford truck is just that, a Ford truck.
Retro these days is a full frame/boxy appearing/ rear wheel drive biased truck/SUV. And they sell. The rest are cute utes...wagons lifted up on their FWD platform with a wedge shape and 18 cupholders. Some started off as minivans.

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