Badlands with 33 or Sasquatch

[Erock]

Love all the helpful info on this site... but the constant belittling of what other folks want gets pretty old.

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[P52Ranch]

I tried to find this answer before I posted. I'm going with a Badland and 33's. From what I can see, the extra $1600ish only gets me upgraded rims and 35 inch tires. This there anything I'm missing out on?
Thanks ahead of time, Chris

for $2495 Squatch on a Badlands gets you:
-Forged bead lock capable wheels (an apparent value of $995 on B&P)
-LT 315 Goodyear tires. Perhaps $80 more per tire at retail (so $400 (five tires))
-10 mm more suspension lift. Many unanswered questions as to how this is accomplished.
-A reduction of suspension articulation. (Maybe 10mm? Maybe more?)
-2" wider wheel track (Give up +55 mm offset 8"rims for +30 mm offset 8 1/2" rims)
-4.7 gearing compared to Auto Transmission 4.46 gearing. Both are a Dana 210 front differential. Probably no cost difference to Ford for the gearing difference but a huge cost if you think you may want to upgrade the gearing later. (especially if you are thinking about a 2" lift and adding tires bigger than 35" in the future)
-Sasquatch fender flares.
-Crash bars that work with 315 tires without rubbing.

 

[Tonka1]

I was on the fence about whether or not to squatch on my BL build. The deciding factors for me were I didn't care for the wheels that came with the 33s and felt that the upgraded wheels were too expensive in comparison to the aftermarket and I do plan to do a lot of off-roading, so the extra ground clearance, approach and departure angles, and proper gearing that come with the SAS package were important. Im opting to wait for a MY22 anyway, so I have a few more months to think about this decision. If nothing changes, I'll probably stick with it.

 

[Robertriley]

Are these wheels the same bolt pattern as the Ranger or F-150?

 

[ZackDanger]

Are these wheels the same bolt pattern as the Ranger or F-150?

Ranger

 

[ZackDanger]

I just replied to a PM to someone who wondered whether they should Sas their BL if they were going to swap out for 35" tires anyway. (They were also interested in the the optional BL wheels, so that was factored into the price of the standard BL.)

I'm going to post what I wrote to them, but basically my conclusion is if you want to stick with 285 tires, don't Sas... if you want to go 35" tires, it makes more sense to Sas:

:::::

Okay.

Wheels.

Short answer: You seem to have done your homework, and it looks like your plan should work fine.

Long answer:

I am not a wheel and suspension expert... especially when it comes to backspacing and offset and wheel thickness, etc. I take the time to relearn all that stuff and then I immediately forget it.

I think as long as your objective is to achieve the same offset/backspacing as the Sasquatch wheels, you should be okay.... or to basically ensure that the inner edge of the tire isn't any closer to the vehicle than the stock BL tires.

The thing is, changing things like offset and backspacing has weird side effects on steering geometry. Sure, you're pushing the wheel out further away from the suspension components, allowing for a wide wheel, but you're also creating a much wider arc for the steering travel. You start to run into body panels and frame parts that weren't a problem before.

Additionally, the further out you push the wheels, the more stress you put on steering knuckles and what-not.

That said, Ford has figured out that a 315 width, 35" tire on a 8.5" width wheel with +30mm offset works and is reliable. So we know that tire fits without issue, so if you're achieving the same thing as the stock Sas setup just with the BL wheels and spacer combo... I can't imagine there being any issue.

(The other thing that's worth mentioning is spacers are really common and can be totally safe, but they are dangerous *enough* that some places outlaw them. In my state of MA they are straight up illegal... probably because at some point everyone was using them and their wheels were coming off... this may not be an issue for you in your jurisdiction, but I did want to mention it.)

Yeah, like I said, you have seemed to do your homework, and you're only really trying to achieve an otherwise factory setup... so you should be good to go.

Also, I don't know what your plans for fender flares are... but if you want to cover the wheels (either aesthetically or legally) you'll need the wider Sas fender flares... and then you'll be lacking the transition filler piece between the rear bumper and wide flares.


Suspension

BL and Sasquatch share the same position sensitive dampers, and we know that BL has a lift over the lower trims... but we also know that Sasquatch suspension is "different components"... but we don't know exactly what that means yet. There is enough evidence to support some sort of lift in Sas over BL (10mm), but we don't know how that is achieved. Lots of theories, no answers... but we understand there to be ostensibly three different heights available on the bronco:

Low: Base - OB
Higher: BL
Highest: Anything Squatched (including WT and FE)

Measurements taken at KOH by some forum members showed no difference in heights between BL and Sas... but I take that with a grain of salt. Errors in measurements, uneven ground, settling, weight in the vehicle, etc etc etc could all have an impact on what those measurements came out to be.

There is a chance that you could put 35's on a stock BL and not achieve the same look / performance as a Sasquatch setup. The differences may be imperceivable or non-existence, or you could end up with some weird stuffed look when what you were hoping for was the Sas setup.

You mention you prefer the look of the optional BL wheels. They are almost nearly identical to the SAS wheels... the difference being thickness and some subtle differences in the arches around the spokes. The rings are a different color but by all accounts they are interchangeable. If what you want is 35" and Sas height on the BL, you might be better served by just spec'ing Sas on your BL and then swapping rings with someone on the board after delivery. (or buying the rings over the parts counter, or painting your rings, etc etc etc).

Gearing

When you do the math on tire diameter and RPMs and power curves, etc there is a "perfect" gearing ratio. On the 33" tires it's 4.46 and on the 35" it's 4.7... so when you're building a vehicle from scratch, you reach for the mathematically perfect combo.

That said, there isn't going to be really any practical difference between those two. We could do the math, but basically the difference will be subtle RPMs. You one wont feel more powerful or capable over the other. They will drive the same... you just might notice that on the highway and at 65mph you're sitting at 2900 RPMS on one setup and 3100 rpms on the other.

So, if your BL comes with 4.46 and you put 35's on it, I would not waste the money to regear. By the time you get done doing that you're basically at the price of the Sas upgrade to begin with no benefit.

If you were going to 37's, then you'd want something in the 5.xx range. My Wrangler started life as a Sahara with tiny tires and had 3.21... I regeared to 4.10 when I put the 34" tires on it. That made a difference.

Conclusions

If you were sitting in front of me I'd ask you what your goal is.... it kind of sounds like you're trying to achieve Sas but keep the optional BL wheels? Considering all the ways that Sas is actually different (smaller difference in BL than other models, but still different), and the wheels are basically interchangeable, it may be worth it to just spec the Sas to begin with.

By the time you option the BL wheels ($995), purchase 35' tires ($1400+), get a set of spacers ($100), swap the flares out (free or $?), and run the risk of the suspension being lower than anticipated... you're at or over just spec'ing the Sas to begin with.

Even if you insisted on having the BL optional wheels, spec'ing sas and doing a one-for-one trade for the wheels with someone else would be an option.

Personally, I want to keep 33" or maybe 34" (285/75) tires on my BL, and I prefer the optional wheels, so I'm not Sas my BL... but if my goal was to put 315s on it as soon as I got it, especially if I wanted the optional wheels anyway, I would let the factory build that for me.

Super Conclusion:

If you never plan to go larger than 34" (285 or narrower) than stick with stock BL.

If your plan is to put 35's (315 or wider) wheels on your BL, it seems worth it to me to just pay for the Squatch.*

(*Only weird consideration would be if you wanted to skip Sasquatch but put 35's on the stock BL wheels..... in which case the scenario mentioned above would save you about a grand in wheels... but you have all the same concerns and I doubt really anyone falls into this category. If you're the type of person already planning to put 35s on your BL, you're probably not going to be happy sticking with the stock BL wheels forever)

 

[vrtical]

if you want to do some more math here are A10 ratios which basically has 3 overdrives.

 

[LiquidIQ]

Ranger

What about offset (non-squatch BL)? Will be picking up an extra set of wheels for snow tires.

 

[imnewtothis]

I just replied to a PM to someone who wondered whether they should Sas their BL if they were going to swap out for 35" tires anyway. (They were also interested in the the optional BL wheels, so that was factored into the price of the standard BL.)

I'm going to post what I wrote to them, but basically my conclusion is if you want to stick with 285 tires, don't Sas... if you want to go 35" tires, it makes more sense to Sas:

:::::

Okay.

Wheels.

Short answer: You seem to have done your homework, and it looks like your plan should work fine.

Long answer:

I am not a wheel and suspension expert... especially when it comes to backspacing and offset and wheel thickness, etc. I take the time to relearn all that stuff and then I immediately forget it.

I think as long as your objective is to achieve the same offset/backspacing as the Sasquatch wheels, you should be okay.... or to basically ensure that the inner edge of the tire isn't any closer to the vehicle than the stock BL tires.

The thing is, changing things like offset and backspacing has weird side effects on steering geometry. Sure, you're pushing the wheel out further away from the suspension components, allowing for a wide wheel, but you're also creating a much wider arc for the steering travel. You start to run into body panels and frame parts that weren't a problem before.

Additionally, the further out you push the wheels, the more stress you put on steering knuckles and what-not.

That said, Ford has figured out that a 315 width, 35" tire on a 8.5" width wheel with +30mm offset works and is reliable. So we know that tire fits without issue, so if you're achieving the same thing as the stock Sas setup just with the BL wheels and spacer combo... I can't imagine there being any issue.

(The other thing that's worth mentioning is spacers are really common and can be totally safe, but they are dangerous *enough* that some places outlaw them. In my state of MA they are straight up illegal... probably because at some point everyone was using them and their wheels were coming off... this may not be an issue for you in your jurisdiction, but I did want to mention it.)

Yeah, like I said, you have seemed to do your homework, and you're only really trying to achieve an otherwise factory setup... so you should be good to go.

Also, I don't know what your plans for fender flares are... but if you want to cover the wheels (either aesthetically or legally) you'll need the wider Sas fender flares... and then you'll be lacking the transition filler piece between the rear bumper and wide flares.


Suspension

BL and Sasquatch share the same position sensitive dampers, and we know that BL has a lift over the lower trims... but we also know that Sasquatch suspension is "different components"... but we don't know exactly what that means yet. There is enough evidence to support some sort of lift in Sas over BL (10mm), but we don't know how that is achieved. Lots of theories, no answers... but we understand there to be ostensibly three different heights available on the bronco:

Low: Base - OB
Higher: BL
Highest: Anything Squatched (including WT and FE)

Measurements taken at KOH by some forum members showed no difference in heights between BL and Sas... but I take that with a grain of salt. Errors in measurements, uneven ground, settling, weight in the vehicle, etc etc etc could all have an impact on what those measurements came out to be.

There is a chance that you could put 35's on a stock BL and not achieve the same look / performance as a Sasquatch setup. The differences may be imperceivable or non-existence, or you could end up with some weird stuffed look when what you were hoping for was the Sas setup.

You mention you prefer the look of the optional BL wheels. They are almost nearly identical to the SAS wheels... the difference being thickness and some subtle differences in the arches around the spokes. The rings are a different color but by all accounts they are interchangeable. If what you want is 35" and Sas height on the BL, you might be better served by just spec'ing Sas on your BL and then swapping rings with someone on the board after delivery. (or buying the rings over the parts counter, or painting your rings, etc etc etc).

Gearing

When you do the math on tire diameter and RPMs and power curves, etc there is a "perfect" gearing ratio. On the 33" tires it's 4.46 and on the 35" it's 4.7... so when you're building a vehicle from scratch, you reach for the mathematically perfect combo.

That said, there isn't going to be really any practical difference between those two. We could do the math, but basically the difference will be subtle RPMs. You one wont feel more powerful or capable over the other. They will drive the same... you just might notice that on the highway and at 65mph you're sitting at 2900 RPMS on one setup and 3100 rpms on the other.

So, if your BL comes with 4.46 and you put 35's on it, I would not waste the money to regear. By the time you get done doing that you're basically at the price of the Sas upgrade to begin with no benefit.

If you were going to 37's, then you'd want something in the 5.xx range. My Wrangler started life as a Sahara with tiny tires and had 3.21... I regeared to 4.10 when I put the 34" tires on it. That made a difference.

Conclusions

If you were sitting in front of me I'd ask you what your goal is.... it kind of sounds like you're trying to achieve Sas but keep the optional BL wheels? Considering all the ways that Sas is actually different (smaller difference in BL than other models, but still different), and the wheels are basically interchangeable, it may be worth it to just spec the Sas to begin with.

By the time you option the BL wheels ($995), purchase 35' tires ($1400), get a set of spacers ($100), swap the flares out (free or $?), and run the risk of the suspension being lower than anticipated... you're at or over just spec'ing the Sas to begin with.

Even if you insisted on having the BL optional wheels, spec'ing sas and doing a one-for-one trade for the wheels with someone else would be an option.

Personally, I want to keep 33" or maybe 34" (285/75) tires on my BL, and I prefer the optional wheels, so I'm not Sas my BL... but if my goal was to put 315s on it as soon as I got it, especially if I wanted the optional wheels anyway, I would let the factory build that for me.

I was the person he took the time to explain/write ALL of that to!

And here was my response...figured @ZackDanger should get all the props possible haha

“Dude. This. Is. Why. I. Reached. Out. To. You.
I have literally ZERO follow up questions!

Thanks for an incredibly well thought out and detailed response to my question man!! Your level of knowledge, commitment to the process, and honesty make you the most valuable member of this community.

Thanks again brother!! ”

 

[Erock]

Looks like you hit most all of the points with your reply... nice job.

 

[BennyBronco69]

For the price difference between Sasquatch and the upgrade 33s it was an easy choice for me to Sasquatch.

Gearing

Rims/tires

Looks better imo

All of that is on the truck when I pick it up and under warranty

 

[B Miller]

Was right where you are in terms of Sasquatch or no. For me, if not Sasquatch the badlands with optional wheels w 33’s was the only choice. I also now think that the narrower look is what I think looks better, so I went BL w 33’s I hated the wide fender flares. Can’t wait for delivery!

Agreed

 

[Brongo]

So, in short, not a whole lot for $2500. I'm just thinking when the tires wear down, I can change out the wheels and tire and possible go 37's and have the $2500 put aside. Thoughts?

This is such a great topic, and I think I'm a little late to it, but...
35s are on average $275 each, and we need 5 of them. So $1375
Then the fender flares are not that exciting, maybe a couple dollars there $125? No idea.
Gearing would make up the $1000. Does that even seem right?

I'm not stating this as fact. This is my terrible math and estimating because I'm with you... What's the benefit??

I have a few days to drop it from my build!

 

[Xploit]

Agreed

There definitely seems to be two types of bronco folks when it comes to SASQUATCH OR NO : Classic lovers who tend to be minimalists and maximalists who prefer a more aggressive stance. The former would never be happy with Sasquatch and the latter wouldn't buy without. Nice to have choices.

 

[jay-rod427]

So who with any non sasquatch wants my stock BL 285's(33's) the day it comes home? Will prob still have the little nipples on the tires. Exactly like Zack I will be immediately going to the slightly taller 285/75 combo on the stock BL wheels. I want the height but not the width of the SAS/315.

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