Damage while using winch on improperly installed Rough Country High Mount

[Tricky Dick]

I'll admit I overreacted and immediately pulled my apex winch and RC mount a couple nights ago. All the posts about leverage made me uncomfortable using it without reinforcements, and I've been itching to figure out how much of my rake was caused by the winch anyways (front fender flare is only a half inch higher after removing winch and mount if anyone cares). Now I'm struggling with where to go from here.

facts:
- frame horns can bend under extreme loads (like being towed off road with nose in the air with a lot of abrupt jolts)
- frame horns did not bend using the RC mount to get out of the snow
- ford's mount reinforces the frame (along with a couple other bumpers)
- the recovery points are bolted to the frame horns in the same way without reinforcement

assumptions:
- the angle of the RC mount may put too much twist on the frame and bend it, but we haven't seen that yet
- choosing a mount that puts the winch in line with the frame may mitigate the risk of frame damage, at the cost of approach angle
- adding reinforcements may affect crumple zone, but may mitigate risk of RC high mount twisting the frame

Am I missing anything?

Looks like an accurate summary. Based on what we've learned here I feel the Ford brackets are the best insurance if you can get them, and LOD is a decent consolation prize. At least the crumple zone is designed for lateral crumpling.

I didn't measure but my front is probably riding an inch or more higher without the winch and bumper on right now.

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[huey]

I'll admit I overreacted and immediately pulled my apex winch and RC mount a couple nights ago. All the posts about leverage made me uncomfortable using it without reinforcements, and I've been itching to figure out how much of my rake was caused by the winch anyways (front fender flare is only a half inch higher after removing winch and mount if anyone cares). Now I'm struggling with where to go from here.

facts:
- frame horns can bend under extreme loads (like being towed off road with nose in the air with a lot of abrupt jolts)
- frame horns did not bend using the RC mount to get out of the snow
- ford's mount reinforces the frame (along with a couple other bumpers)
- the recovery points are bolted to the frame horns in the same way without reinforcement

assumptions:
- the angle of the RC mount may put too much twist on the frame and bend it, but we haven't seen that yet
- choosing a mount that puts the winch in line with the frame may mitigate the risk of frame damage, at the cost of approach angle
- adding reinforcements may affect crumple zone, but may mitigate risk of RC high mount twisting the frame

Am I missing anything?

sounds like you have it!
With engineering there is usually give an take so decisions need to be made
as someone else mentioned the owner needs to decide if they want to modify / alter crumple zones. It is likely easiest to modify with extra brackets / bolts but may impact how the safety zone reacts during certain impacts. Most people like to follow the path that is easiest and gets the job done.

For me I am not ready to pick my winch setup yet, but I would take a hard look at adding a bolt hole in the frame below the existing hole and avoid welding more brackets / welds in the crumple zone. Just need to watch where the holes go - don't let the hole get to close to the dimples or get too close to the radius in the bottom of the rail.

hopefully that lets the dimples(crush initiators) still do their job

 

[Bikeric]

My big takeaway from this thread is that pulling a Bronco from the Factory front recovery points should be done Very Cautiously. That, and don’t get liquored up when installing a winch.

 

[chtucker]

The only thing that bent was the RC mount due to improper installation. The horns and bumper are apparently still straight.

Good news!

 

[Felix808]

The only thing that bent was the RC mount due to improper installation. The horns and bumper are apparently still straight.

Thank goodness Makes me feel much better about the strength in that area.

Note to self, be cautious of TD's help for repairs

 

[zuke]

I'll admit I overreacted and immediately pulled my apex winch and RC mount a couple nights ago. All the posts about leverage made me uncomfortable using it without reinforcements, and I've been itching to figure out how much of my rake was caused by the winch anyways (front fender flare is only a half inch higher after removing winch and mount if anyone cares). Now I'm struggling with where to go from here.

facts:
- frame horns can bend under extreme loads (like being towed off road with nose in the air with a lot of abrupt jolts)
- frame horns did not bend using the RC mount to get out of the snow
- ford's mount reinforces the frame (along with a couple other bumpers)
- the recovery points are bolted to the frame horns in the same way without reinforcement

assumptions:
- the angle of the RC mount may put too much twist on the frame and bend it, but we haven't seen that yet
- choosing a mount that puts the winch in line with the frame may mitigate the risk of frame damage, at the cost of approach angle
- adding reinforcements may affect crumple zone, but may mitigate risk of RC high mount twisting the frame

Am I missing anything?

Good summary, Though I would add that we learned some good in depth stuff about how frames are made too, thanks to @huey.

My take away is more based on what happened to DV8, since they actually suffered damage.. and looking at the resulting damage they took, (Top of plate bent back, bottom pulled forward, actual frame undamaged) And the fact that it was pretty extreme pressure put on the rig by more or less pulling straight up, I'm going to conclude that the best reinforcmement that might have prevented DV8's damage is something like the Clevis bracket from the ford setup;

Which would have helped keep the bumper from pulling up, But still might have not been enough in that case, (And their woes were really about the bumper mounting, not winch)!

For the high mount JCR and RC.. I still think the LOD type brackets are probably worth installing for peace of mind, But not as neccessary as we all initally thought.

 

[vrtical]

The only thing that bent was the RC mount due to improper installation. The horns and bumper are apparently still straight.

you get a redo and an upgrade.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

The only thing that bent was the RC mount due to improper installation. The horns and bumper are apparently still straight.

Oh internet freak out … but good learning / consideration opportunity anyway.

 

[Grumpy]

I'll admit I overreacted and immediately pulled my apex winch and RC mount a couple nights ago. All the posts about leverage made me uncomfortable using it without reinforcements, and I've been itching to figure out how much of my rake was caused by the winch anyways (front fender flare is only a half inch higher after removing winch and mount if anyone cares). Now I'm struggling with where to go from here.

facts:
- frame horns can bend under extreme loads (like being towed off road with nose in the air with a lot of abrupt jolts)
- frame horns did not bend using the RC mount to get out of the snow
- ford's mount reinforces the frame (along with a couple other bumpers)
- the recovery points are bolted to the frame horns in the same way without reinforcement

assumptions:
- the angle of the RC mount may put too much twist on the frame and bend it, but we haven't seen that yet
- choosing a mount that puts the winch in line with the frame may mitigate the risk of frame damage, at the cost of approach angle
- adding reinforcements may affect crumple zone, but may mitigate risk of RC high mount twisting the frame

Am I missing anything?

The frame horns did not bend on @Tricky Dick or DV8's. So the assumption that the frame horns being a weak link in still unfounded at this point. DV8 proved to us that the oem bumper mounts on frame horns did fail. Furthermore based on their recovery video aftermath there seemed to be no reinforcement brackets installed to help elevate the mount failure. @Tricky Dick confessed that his failure was of his own making by not installing the necessary and supplied spacers. So after 15 pages of theory, mapping and research, we are back to square one. Only we have been alerted of possible issues under extreme use. So we collectively are trying to be proactive in how we think concerning winch install without possible failure. That's the great thing about breaking shit, how can we make it better. Not to mention manufacturers following this thread and possibly averting these issues in the future.

I love these types of threads, putting a hundred heads together on one cause and effect is very educational from the extreme novice to the extreme journey men and ladies.

 

[swooshdave]

Can someone bend their horns so we have more to talk about?

 

[Felix808]

You know all this bad mouting of RC products

Can someone bend their horns so we have more to talk about?

Go right ahead

 

[dgorsett]

You know all this bad mouting of RC products

Go right ahead

Yep, I have to say I've been very impressed with rhe engineering, fit and finish of my RC hidden mount, V2 I think. Seems like they thought of everything.

There that makes up for some of the badmouthing.

 

[BHD2012]

@Tricky Dick Thank you for the follow up on your experience. I was getting worried since I have the same set up and customized it a bit...was fearing that I'd have to find another mounting solution.

 

[Bikeric]

The frame horns did not bend on @Tricky Dick or DV8's. So the assumption that the frame horns being a weak link in still unfounded at this point. DV8 proved to us that the oem bumper mounts on frame horns did fail. Furthermore based on their recovery video aftermath there seemed to be no reinforcement brackets installed to help elevate the mount failure. @Tricky Dick confessed that his failure was of his own making by not installing the necessary and supplied spacers. So after 15 pages of theory, mapping and research, we are back to square one. Only we have been alerted of possible issues under extreme use. So we collectively are trying to be proactive in how we think concerning winch install without possible failure. That's the great thing about breaking shit, how can we make it better. Not to mention manufacturers following this thread and possibly averting these issues in the future.

I love these types of threads, putting a hundred heads together on one cause and effect is very educational from the extreme novice to the extreme journey men and ladies.

@Tricky Dick made @Grumpy smile?
worthwhile thread.

 

[Tricky Dick]

@Tricky Dick Thank you for the follow up on your experience. I was getting worried since I have the same set up and customized it a bit...was fearing that I'd have to find another mounting solution.

I do apologize for crying wolf and causing concern. I was sure my bumper was also tweaked, I remembered more gap between the body and wings. I think my RC mount is still salvageable too but I'm not putting it back on until I get the LOD brackets, might as well go all in.

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