F150, Ford, Rachael Maddow Dont get mad, give it a watch [Off-Topic / Political posts will be deleted - Administration]

[MaverickMan]

It’s always “wind and solar, and damn the consequences!” or “intermittency problem intershmitency problem.” These are not the solutions some people seem to think (and I use that word very lightly).

I think the reason you mostly hear wind and solar out of politicians is that they are the easiest and oldest for them to explain to masses that dont understand em either. Its not like energy research isnt happening in all sorts of sectors its just that it its experimental phases the public or politician wont be able to grasp it. There is also the fact that our current systems of fossil fuels require tremendous infrastructure and waste to keep status quo. Its complex but but mechanical fuel energy has alot of limits that electricity does not. Electricity has its own limits but not trying to overcome them would be foolish. This is all baby steps in comparison to Fords total vehicle production.

I will say as more pics came out that front end storage and hopefully a power unit similar to the hybrid would make this the ultimate tailgate monster. Even if you only have 10 miles left after the party is over.

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[Hoofnmouth]

Water breaks into hydrogen and oxygen. When you burn those two things together it happens to be rocket fuel.

Juicedradic equation

 

[MaverickMan]

I don’t think anyone is questioning the direction the auto industry is headed with EVs. The question is whether it actually solves any problems or just creates new ones. Federal regulations and marketing can facilitate sweeping changes but that doesn’t mean it’s actually improved anything.

It does create new problems, however we are running out of fixes for old problem, I mean some of our Broncos have 2 turbos and 2 types of fuel injection for 2.7 liters. When we get to dual compound turbo/superchargers, methanol injection, variable crankshafts, variable rods, and who knows what, will we even be allowed to work on the engines?

I just think of how cheap godzilla mills will be when 80% of cars on the road are EV. Sure you may have to install a 40 gallon tank because gas stations are scarce but for $600 including trans and harness we can swap a used 7.3 liter into beat up old 2022 Broncos.

 

[Jdc]

200,000 x 7500 = 1,500,000,000 That's a lot of tax payer money going to vehicles manufacturers. Basically it's the government trying to pick winners, and losers. As the old saying goes, "It's easy to spend other peoples money".

Picking winners and losers if you're a glass half empty kind of person . I see it as the government investing in the future. The 7500 is tax credit not a direct payout and usually goes to the people who buy the cars not the manufacturers. 1.5 billion is a lot of money though it's usually takes multiple years for most manufacturers to sell 200k eligible cars.

 

[stonerdoom]

I'm not entirely sold on the idea that electric vehicles are "greener" or "better". The manufacturing process requires a lot of raw materials and processes that aren't "green". How "green" are the power plants? How many more power plants will we need? Anybody think about battery disposal? I'm not sure we're ready for this transformation... Just my 2 cents...

Excellent hypothesis and I share the same questions. But in order to be really thorough, we'd have to compare the same processes against combustion engines and the processes of obtaining and processing fossil fuels to put into our real-life stomper 4x4's. If we had an honest side-by-side comparison of these things I think we'd be getting somewhere.

EDIT: I just thought of this and this might be harder to quantify but... what about intangibles. Such as having to deal with not so savory countries and governments to obtain raw materials and fossil fuels. For me, that would need to be considered. I am a combustion guy. I am not turned off by electric vehicles but I am not "there" yet in terms of adoption. However, aside from the possibility of helping the environment, a major selling point to me would be minimizing the advantage of certain Middle Eastern monarchies, even just a little bit.

 

[stonerdoom]

200,000 x 7500 = 1,500,000,000 That's a lot of tax payer money going to vehicles manufacturers. Basically it's the government trying to pick winners, and losers. As the old saying goes, "It's easy to spend other peoples money".

Most definitely a fair point and certainly needs to be considered but what is the side-by-side comparison of the breaks the oil companies get on our dime and the overwhelming influences the oil lobbies are bringing to bear that are impacting each of us. There is not a comparable group made up of concerned citizens that rivals what the oil lobby is doing to the country/world (and you can insert any other industry- tech, anyone?!?!). This should be of concern to folks regardless of political affiliation because it is each of us, individually, against the oil industry. There is no meaningful "us" against the oil industry.

 

[Wanted33]

Picking winners and losers if you're a glass half empty kind of person . I see it as the government investing in the future. The 7500 is tax credit not a direct payout and usually goes to the people who buy the cars not the manufacturers. 1.5 billion is a lot of money though it's usually takes multiple years for most manufacturers to sell 200k eligible cars.

I don't disagree Jon, and as I said electric vehicles will be the way of the future. Tech will catch up, and the vehicles will get better and better as they go.

What will be interesting to see if the farmers, construction companies, etc. get on board with the Lightning. And, will they make good tow vehicles. I know they say it will tow 10K pounds, but for how long is the big question. I realize they have to start somewhere, but is an F-150 the best place?

 

[Theherofails]

I have a rebuttal for EVERY part of your argument:
1. EVs typically plug in at night, when the demand goes down by 70-80% but the plants have to run 24/7. Plugging in at night is the perfect load balancing/capacity utilization opportunity to leverage EXISTING plants.
2. The tax credits/military protection and work on roads that have to be repaired for massive tanker trucks with flammable fuel being delivered to 40K gas stations inefficiently far exceed government aid to electric cars.
3. We are likely getting our last ICE car in the Bronco. The next one will be a plug in, because it would cost far less to own.
4. Battery tech is on a exponential curve, like processor power in laptops from the 90s to today. Costs for the same battery are already down 80% in 10 years.

Well they're going gangbusters all over Europe and northern Africa, I admit I don't know enough about the failures in the SW.

1.)plugging in EVs at night works right now because barely anyone is doing it. It’s not going to work when a substantial number of people are doing it. Both wind and solar suffer at night and there is no battery system capable of storing daytime generated energy. You’re charging your EV with coal or gas.

2.)I would love to see any evidence at all that this statement is true.

3.)Zero chance of this happening in the next 15 years. Zero. There will be ICE for the rest of your life, and the lives of your children. Gasoline is far cheaper and more efficient than EV and the market reflects that. It’s easier to transport, cheaper to store, easier to produce and quicker to refill vehicles.

4.)Also false. Battery tech hasn’t increased in any meaningful fashion since the first Tesla. It’s still just a bunch of 18650 cells in modular power packs. They’ve gotten a bit better at arranging them, but the individual cell capacity is nearly identical. It’s not about cost, it’s about density and weight. Hence why we are still seeing every new EV with the same pitiful range.


Also, the rare earth minerals needed are controlled by China who is restricting access, and the cobalt needed for the battery packs is primarily mined by children and slave labor in Africa. The power comes primarily from coal or natural gas as that is what powers the electrical grid. Virtually no part of EV is better for environment when compared to good ole gasoline.

They’re a novelty for the middle and upper middle class.. a way to feel good about yourself without having to do anything but give a corporation about 25% more profit for a vehicle.

 

[Bronco2021RV]

So I watched the video I got inspired and interested. Then I watched a YouTube video last night on the F150 lightning got more inspired more interested. I placed an order this morning. I wonder how many Bronco fans have also ordered the lightning?

 

[Moya7]

So I watched the video I got inspired and interested. Then I watched a YouTube video last night on the F150 lightning got more inspired more interested. I placed an order this morning. I wonder how many Bronco fans have also ordered the lightning?

me me me

 

[NC_Pinz]

1.)plugging in EVs at night works right now because barely anyone is doing it. It’s not going to work when a substantial number of people are doing it. Both wind and solar suffer at night and there is no battery system capable of storing daytime generated energy. You’re charging your EV with coal or gas.

Not true. Both Tesla and Generac have power storage for residential customers. Typically these are tied to solar systems but one could use this with any mode of power supply including utility power. There may be others but I only briefly looked.

 

[HotdogThud]

me me me

 

[Jdc]

Too soon

 

[Moya7]

There are a lot of EV naysayers, as I am sure there were many in the late 1800s that believed the 'horseless carriage' would NEVER replace the horse and buggy. EV / battery technology will continue to improve with charging speed and battery capacity. I truly believe that my Bronco will be the last new ICE 4 wheeled vehicle I will ever buy. I'm sure that once EV really kicks off, standard gas stations will start to add EV charging stations (if they haven't already). One thing I don't like though is that each manufacturer seems to have their own style plug. If we could get a standardized plug so every EV could use any charging station, it would help immensely.

Yep, just like our cell phone companies in the US, nothing is standardized like in Europe. Go figure.

 

[Nobs]

Super cute?!? Cmon lady! I guess I'll take it. But forreals, the bronc will be my last new gas vehicle purchase I'll ever make, which adds to the romanticism of it all for me. Batteries are indeed the future whether you like it or not, or even believe in the technology or its "green-ness." And it will result in better performance. Charging times will eventually equate to the time it takes to fill the tank. Longer ranges, fewer moving parts, more torque and power. It's truly inevitable. Invest accordingly! And enjoy whatever experience behind the wheel you get- future generations won't even be driving themselves.

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