Front Locker Upgrade?

Mountain Goat

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Truetrac doesn't work off road at all. I have some experience w/those...worse than LSD. Might as well just leave it open if you were going to go that route.
Curious what you used it on, because they do work as designed - well enough for Humvees to tackle serious lines in Moab (with plenty of 3-wheeling) with proper driving technique. (Not sure who makes the diffs in the H1 but they operate on the exact same principle)

I've also seen them used effectively with modern off-road traction control, on LR3s and LR4s and such. They complement the traction control perfectly because they are torque biasing. The TC brakes the one that is in the air, so you get a multiple of that braking force transferred to the other wheel.

Not a true locker, and I'm not suggesting it functions as one, but they do work and have the advantage of being completely transparent on the road and in severe weather situations.

I so desperately hope you are right, and that those options are reasonably priced as standalones. I'll be pleased as pie if I can get my BD with the extra-low low range and upgraded ring gears, at which point I think the 4.46 gearing will be adequate (especially in conjunction with a hopefully Ford-sanctioned ECU remap) for whatever tires I eventually want to run.
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Bmadda

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Curious what you used it on, because they do work as designed - well enough for Humvees to tackle serious lines in Moab (with plenty of 3-wheeling) with proper driving technique. (Not sure who makes the diffs in the H1 but they operate on the exact same principle)

I've also seen them used effectively with modern off-road traction control, on LR3s and LR4s and such. They complement the traction control perfectly because they are torque biasing. The TC brakes the one that is in the air, so you get a multiple of that braking force transferred to the other wheel.

Not a true locker, and I'm not suggesting it functions as one, but they do work and have the advantage of being completely transparent on the road and in severe weather situations.



I so desperately hope you are right, and that those options are reasonably priced as standalones. I'll be pleased as pie if I can get my BD with the extra-low low range and upgraded ring gears, at which point I think the 4.46 gearing will be adequate (especially in conjunction with a hopefully Ford-sanctioned ECU remap) for whatever tires I eventually want to run.
Duramax trucks from 02-06 have an lsd that liked to explode...so bad yukon won't make an aftermarket copy. The only way to bulletproof them i have found is to replace the lsd (after fishing the busted bits out w/a magnet) w/a truetrac or an open (or selectable but the customer NEVER wants to spend that kind of money). Works fine, but as soon as they go in mud they get mad that it one wheel wonders. I have one in my street rod and for street its great! Lays dual strips every time!
 

Mountain Goat

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***Duramax trucks from 02-06***
That makes sense, that is what I would call primitive to no traction control, I believe the old Duramax just used a fuel cut rather than braking on individual wheels.

If you watch a Subaru or even an old Disco 2 with open center and open front & rear diffs working its way through a three-wheeling (or two!) situation, that is the type of advanced TC that really complements a torsen.

But I do agree based on your example: without selective braking by the traction control, or left foot braking techniques, they would be no better than an open diff when it comes to mud/snow/ice/three wheeling situations.
 

Bmadda

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That makes sense, that is what I would call primitive to no traction control, I believe the old Duramax just used a fuel cut rather than braking on individual wheels.

If you watch a Subaru or even an old Disco 2 with open center and open front & rear diffs working its way through a three-wheeling (or two!) situation, that is the type of advanced TC that really complements a torsen.

But I do agree based on your example: without selective braking by the traction control, or left foot braking techniques, they would be no better than an open diff when it comes to mud/snow/ice/three wheeling situations.
I got enough complaints that I contacted Eaton tech support and they told me thats how it is...i thought the guy might have been blowing me off so I asked tech at Detroit Locker the same question...they told me truetrac is not a good choice for offroad application for that reason. The other side of the scenario is that my original objective of avoiding a comeback worked! The truetrac will hold together behind a duramax no problem! Understand these are the type of customers that do friday night county fair truck pulls etc...i know customer abuse is a factor!
 

kodiakisland

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Truetrac doesn't work off road at all. I have some experience w/those...worse than LSD. Might as well just leave it open if you were going to go that route.

Maybe for your application, but I love my Truetrac, on and off road and know a lot of people using and liking them in Tacomas. Hooks up quickly and smoothly every time I need it. If you are completely stopped with a wheel lifted, you have to tap the brake while under some power and it locks up immediately. The computer on my Tacoma actually applies that brake for me most of the time and it's immediate.

I'd go with a Truetrac over the standard clutchpack LSD any day, for my usage.

I'm also not playing in the rocks or mud pits just for fun either. I'm sure if I was I would probably use something else.
 
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Mountain Goat

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I got enough complaints that I contacted Eaton tech support and they told me thats how it is...i thought the guy might have been blowing me off so I asked tech at Detroit Locker the same question...they told me truetrac is not a good choice for offroad application for that reason. The other side of the scenario is that my original objective of avoiding a comeback worked! The truetrac will hold together behind a duramax no problem! Understand these are the type of customers that do friday night county fair truck pulls etc...i know customer abuse is a factor!
I will just say, here is an example of what they *can* do on a properly set up vehicle (this one is paired with a rear Detroit No-Slip, but the front is just a TrueTrac - it's a common setup on Land Rovers). It would actually be my first choice over a selectable, for all-around usefulness in a variety of on and off road situations, but I can certainly see the selectable being slightly more useful in extreme situations.



So I *hope* we get a TrueTrac. If not, I assume the ARB air locker will be available for the M210 diff before long. They already have one for the M190s in the current Ranger.
 
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Bmadda

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Maybe for your application, but I love my Truetrac, on and off road and know a lot of people using and liking them in Tacomas. Hooks up quickly and smoothly every time I need it. If you are completely stopped with a wheel lifted, you have to tap the brake while under some power and it locks up immediately. The computer on my Tacoma actually applies that brake for me most of the time and it's immediate.

I'd go with a Truetrac over the standard clutchpack LSD any day, for my usage.

I'm also not playing in the rocks or mud pits just for fun either. I'm sure if I was I would probably use something else.
I have not used, nor will I, a truetrac on any of my offroad vehicles...the duramax example is just an example I am telling you about purely to relay my experience...it was durable enough, but DID NOT make the customer happy. I do own one, but not for offroad use. If you guys have found some magical way to make them work offroad then good for you! I can say with complete honesty I do not want one for my Bronco frt or rear. Selectable only or just leave it open...im glad and impressed that Ford has learned this lesson as well!
 

DrewBronc21

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so if you were to go aftermarket for this, the M210 and locker, would cost like $3000-$5000?
 

Bmadda

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so if you were to go aftermarket for this, the M210 and locker, would cost like $3000-$5000?
One thing is for sure it WILL NOT be cheap! The Bronco program continues to evolve and Ford seems to be encouraging the aftermarket to participate. But if we use the history that Jeep has had w/various "hardcore" axle upgrades, you are always money ahead by getting them from the factory. Buy once, cry once.
 

kodiakisland

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so if you were to go aftermarket for this, the M210 and locker, would cost like $3000-$5000?

I don't mind regears or adding lockers, but I do not want to swap out the whole IFS. It's not as simple as just unbolting one housing and bolting in the other. Not worth it if you don't have to.
Maybe in a few years you can get a totaled Bronco for the parts and do it.

Way better off getting the M210 from Ford if it's an option to upgrade.
 

Bmadda

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I don't mind regears or adding lockers, but I do not want to swap out the whole IFS. It's not as simple as just unbolting one housing and bolting in the other. Not worth it if you don't have to.
Maybe in a few years you can get a totaled Bronco for the parts and do it.

Way better off getting the M210 from Ford if it's an option to upgrade.
Thats going to be a whole secondary issue I think you will find w/this vehicle. Wranglers never turn up in junkyards...i know people in that business and what they tell me is that when wrecked wranglers show up in salvage auctions there is a cult of buyers that buy them up. Bronco may turn out like that as well.
 

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If Ford makes 200k of these annually then finding a used differential shouldn't be hard. Just bolt the whole thing in. Snag the rear axle from the same Bronco to get the matching ratio. Sell your original axles to offset the cost. Making the lockers work should be easy but making them play with the factory computers might get tricky. You don't want traction control taking over on a locked axle!

With that said, if you have to ask if you need a front locker then you almost certainly don't. A winch is cheap so unless you're a serious crawler then I wouldn't worry about it. Rear lockers do make a world of difference, especially when going up hill where most weight shifts to the rear axle. A factory electric locker is a nice addition though I know many F series guys wish they had a limited slip instead since it works in all situations, like snow.
 

DrewBronc21

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I’m seeing a lot of posts saying Ford will offer 210 and locker as an option other than with Squatch, but I have never seen this confirmed by Ford
 

Bmadda

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I’m seeing a lot of posts saying Ford will offer 210 and locker as an option other than with Squatch, but I have never seen this confirmed by Ford
Standard on Badlands w/out squatch
 
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