GM rules out gas-powered Bronco competitor. But EV possible?

[MLRey]

I'm glad GM decided not to make a Blazer, everything they remake ends up



Reality is something like the Ford Ranger will do most things the Bronco or Wrangler can do. No removable top or doors but better cargo and towing. Given a fairly limited market it probably doesn't make financial sense for Ford.

Sounds a little silly, doesn't it? Ford made their own market with the 6G, just like it did with the 1G, and just like GM did with the Blazer all those years ago. GM doesn't need anyone to make apologies for their failures. They had their chance to rectify decades of trash, and chose to double down instead.

I was just pointing out that if GM had beat Ford to market with a real off roader there would have been a smaller potential market for Ford to justify the expense of bringing a new vehicle to production. These vehicles are really lifestyle vehicles with a limited total market. At least 1/3rd of the Bronco sales are people who would have otherwise purchased a Wrangler. Last years sales data seems to confirms this. GM would probably want to be able to sell at least 100k real Blazers to justify the upfront expense. What's the total market size for hardcore off road vehicles? IDK but I doubt the market size would just go up because GM made a real Blazer. So GM would be working to get customers from the existing base already filled with Jeep and Ford.

I wouldn't say Ford "made their own market". Ford saw an existing market that Jeep dominated with the Wrangler and made the right call that a better overall vehicle could take away Wrangler sales and generate new ones.

So GM is looking at their vehicles and seem to have said there's not enough market to justify the expense. The new Colorado/Canyon platform would probably lend itself nicely to a real Blazer but there probably just isn't enough potential customer to make it work. There's probably other reasons as well such as CAFE standards.

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[Arrowbear Rider]

Just can't see an EV working though. No charging stations where many with Bronco / Wranglers go. Would require careful planning to keep from running out of juice.

For us that want to go wheeling, it doesn't make sense, but for the 90% of all SUV drivers that don't go off road, that won't matter. Families going to the beach or the National park those would be just fine.

It's more of a four seat family convertible SUV than a off road vehicle, one that will look good on that dirt road to the campsite or beach. How many G Wagons or Land Rovers actually go wheeling?

They'd sell a ton of them for image, not ability. And most modern SUV can handle a dirt road way better than an old truck, just because of new technology. So they'll think "they are a wheelin".

 

[Hank 615]

They had everything they needed in the Blazer/TrailBlazer nameplates and they squandered them both. No one is surprised.

 

[Hank 615]

Also, has this guy met Chevy people? They could put out a revamped Blazer concept as a Bronco rival tomorrow and have 100k reservations by the end of the week.

 

[MLRey]

For us that want to go wheeling, it doesn't make sense, but for the 90% of all SUV drivers that don't go off road, that won't matter. Families going to the beach or the National park those would be just fine.

It's more of a four seat family convertible SUV than a off road vehicle, one that will look good on that dirt road to the campsite or beach. How many G Wagons or Land Rovers actually go wheeling?

They'd sell a ton of them for image, not ability. And most modern SUV can handle a dirt road way better than an old truck, just because of new technology. So they'll think "they are a wheelin".

Very true but EVs still don't work for some places. This weekend we're going to Death Valley National Park. Been going every Presidents Day weekend for 25+ years. There's maybe 20 or so level 2 chargers in the Furnace Creek area. Last year we noticed quite a few Tesla's and other EVs. They were stacked up waiting to plug in but since they were only level 2 people were just parking and leaving their car for many hours or all day/night. The closest Superchargers are at least 100+ miles away.

We saw EVs driving around the park and wondered how they were managing the range. Assuming 300 mile range and they topped off to full before heading to the park from the closest spot they'd be down to 200 or so. Spend a couple of days driving around the park would easily eat up 100 miles leaving barely enough to get back out.

It will be interesting to see how things are this year. Normally we are at the Furnace Creek campground but since we sold our travel trailer last year we'll be staying at the nearby hotel and visiting our friends in the campground. We're taking the wife's Subaru Outback since still no Bronco. We'll top off the fuel in Ridgecrest and will have plenty to get there, drive around and get back without having to pay the super high gas price in the park. I'll see if I can get a picture of the people waiting at the charging stations.

 

[Arrowbear Rider]

drive around and get back without having to pay the super high gas price in the park. I

I understand, I was talking about the masses of people that don't do much of that.

On the flip side, I took my Motorcycle to Yosemite and rode from the south end to Tuolumne Meadows and back and there is only one gas station in the park and I almost didn't think about that. A bike's tank isn't that big, I could have stranded myself. Talk about expensive gas, I paid more there than last trip to Death Valley.

We go Thanksgiving Weekend to Death Valley, and stay a week wheeling around and one year we were camping at a new spot every night and had to fill up in the Valley twice, so yea that couldn't happen in a EV. Last time we made home base at the hot springs, but we still have fill up twice with all the exploring we do.

Been to Barker Ranch too, if you know what I'm talking about, it's too bad a fire destroyed most of it a couple of years before we made it there.

 

[Tex]

I was just pointing out that if GM had beat Ford to market with a real off roader there would have been a smaller potential market for Ford to justify the expense of bringing a new vehicle to production. These vehicles are really lifestyle vehicles with a limited total market. At least 1/3rd of the Bronco sales are people who would have otherwise purchased a Wrangler. Last years sales data seems to confirms this. GM would probably want to be able to sell at least 100k real Blazers to justify the upfront expense. What's the total market size for hardcore off road vehicles? IDK but I doubt the market size would just go up because GM made a real Blazer. So GM would be working to get customers from the existing base already filled with Jeep and Ford.

I wouldn't say Ford "made their own market". Ford saw an existing market that Jeep dominated with the Wrangler and made the right call that a better overall vehicle could take away Wrangler sales and generate new ones.

So GM is looking at their vehicles and seem to have said there's not enough market to justify the expense. The new Colorado/Canyon platform would probably lend itself nicely to a real Blazer but there probably just isn't enough potential customer to make it work. There's probably other reasons as well such as CAFE standards.

Ford didn't take customers away from a niche market, they changed a niche market into a very popular and rapidly growing one, which means they made a market for their Bronco in the same way that SUV's and crossovers became popular...even though some vehicles were filling that market long before they became popular (i.e. suburbans and explorers before SUV became a term, RAV4 and Subaru Outback predating the crossover market). The Bronco singlehandedly increased Ford's SUV footprint from less than 2% to over 10%, even with serious production delays mostly due to Ford severely underestimating the market they would be making. My prediction is that before a 7th gen Bronco comes out, several other non-Jeeps will come along to try and claim some of that market, making it grow even more. Drive a Bronco around town and people in all types of vehicles will stare and ask you questions about it...people that wouldn't have given a second glance to a Wrangler, asking you details about how you managed to get your hands on one. That's creating a new market.

As for the Colorado comment, shame. You are describing a peasantly S10 blazer, an affront to any real Blazer, which is based on a full size short wheelbase truck with two doors and a removable top. An S10 blazer based on the Colorado would certainly fall within GM "remake" standards though Seriously all they have to do is take a 2dr short bed 1/2 ton truck, weld the bed to the cab, throw a camper shell on it, and bolt a seat in the rear. Probably 98% parts commonality and there's already a huge offering of aftermarket parts just waiting to be bolted on. Every GM fanboy would be holding a pillow on their lap dreaming about showing the Bronco sissies what a real offroad SUV is supposed to be. A big market share is basically guaranteed for GM, and yet they'd rather make the most boring one-off crossovers on the planet with low parts commonality instead.

 

[ried]

What the hell are you talking about lol. Do you know what a generator is? What solar panels are? What a wind turbine is?

Do you think the government is LESS involved in gasoline?

Gasoline is like cash (or gold). Easily portable, dense energy. Comes from sources around the world.

Electricity is like a credit card, easily switched off at the government's whim. "Sorry folks, too hot to charge your electric car today" or "Every resident gets to charge one vehicle once per week at night."

Good luck charging your vehicle with your generator, solar panels and wind turbine. Sounds fun!

 

[MnLakeBum]

In another 3+ years when VW has their Scout EV for sale, there will be a market for them. IMO, GM could do well with an EV Blazer whether or not it has “real” off road capabilities. As others have said, 90% of SUV owners don’t need or use theirs for anything but light to moderate off roading.

Tesla has over 1.6 million reservations for the Cybertruck so in another few years we will be seeing those everywhere. Like it or not, EV’s are going to be a big thing in another decade.

 

[Bonz50]

For some reason every time I see a new Blazer on the road I imagine the other car in their driveway being a Pontiac Aztec…

Walter White 2.0

 

[Sherminiator]

Gasoline is like cash (or gold). Easily portable, dense energy. Comes from sources around the world.

Electricity is like a credit card, easily switched off at the government's whim. "Sorry folks, too hot to charge your electric car today" or "Every resident gets to charge one vehicle once per week at night."

Good luck charging your vehicle with your generator, solar panels and wind turbine. Sounds fun!

But yet those gas pumps are run on the same electricity to get the fuel out of out ground into your tank...

You have some serious comprehension issues if you don't think gas can't be rationed the same way.

 

[Tex]

But yet those gas pumps are run on the same electricity to get the fuel out of out ground into your tank...

You have some serious comprehension issues if you don't think gas can't be rationed the same way.

Many of the fuel stations in my area have backup generators, it's probably a local company policy or whatever, but they're not totally reliant on the grid. Fuel shortages and rationing are a different story, but there are undeniably more issues currently with power grid delivery and rationing than with fuel shortages.

The big difference is that you can buy a 10,000gal tank and hold an entire transport worth of fuel in it. People living in the city wouldn't have that luxury, but they also wouldn't have the luxury of a decent size solar or wind farm on their property to keep them going either. Storing fuel is not cheap by any means, but the cost to store an equivalent amount of electricity would be insane. Pretty much the only way you could be self sufficient on the same level as a transport of fuel would be if you had a large solar farm with a bank of Tesla batteries, and you still wouldn't be able to move that source of energy like you could with small fuel tanks. Unless you have a large budget, it's cheaper and easier to store fuel for emergencies than it is to store/generate electricity.

 

[Sherminiator]

Many of the fuel stations in my area have backup generators, it's probably a local company policy or whatever, but they're not totally reliant on the grid. Fuel shortages and rationing are a different story, but there are undeniably more issues currently with power grid delivery and rationing than with fuel shortages.

The big difference is that you can buy a 10,000gal tank and hold an entire transport worth of fuel in it. People living in the city wouldn't have that luxury, but they also wouldn't have the luxury of a decent size solar or wind farm on their property to keep them going either. Storing fuel is not cheap by any means, but the cost to store an equivalent amount of electricity would be insane. Pretty much the only way you could be self sufficient on the same level as a transport of fuel would be if you had a large solar farm with a bank of Tesla batteries, and you still wouldn't be able to move that source of energy like you could with small fuel tanks. Unless you have a large budget, it's cheaper and easier to store fuel for emergencies than it is to store/generate electricity.

Are you sure about that? In the two states I've lived in on the East Coast, both times that a decent hurricane came through and damaged the electrical grid, the gas stations where down for a few a days.

Plus how can you sell gas to people without electricity to process credit cards or get cash out to pay for it?

A 10K gallon fuel tank costs the same amount as good used car (24K for examples I saw) plus another $32K in gas makes that down right stupid for your average user also.

 

[Arrowbear Rider]

A 10K gallon fuel tank costs the same amount as good used car (24K for examples I saw) plus another $32K in gas makes that down right stupid for your average user also.

Plus, gas has a short shelve life, especially with ethanol. When storing gas for my chain saws and in my motorcycle over the winter I would have to additives to keep it relatively fresh for six months. And, those don't work that great for a long term, are you going use that 10,000 gallons before it turns to varnish?

Even at two 20 gallon tanks per week, and that's a lot of gas, you'd only use 2,080 gallons in a year. And that would be spoiling by the end of a year.

 

[Tex]

Like I said, probably company policy, which doesn't mean every single gas station on the planet, but they had fuel and were processing payments when the grid was down in TX.

A transport of unleaded is about 8,000 gallons, and when you buy a full transport, you pay the same price that fuel stations do. At the moment, I can pick up a transport for $21,020, and I recently bought a 10,000gal tank a few months back for $7500. Coincidentally, Jet-A is actually cheaper than unleaded.

If you have half a dozen friends or family members, you can start an informal co-op to both offset the cost as well as keep the fuel fresh. You can choose to store it in a single 10,000 tank or split it up into 1500gal tanks for each house. If you're surrounded by ag, you can join an existing co-op for the same benefits. Bulk fuel will last a lot longer than fuel in your vehicle or gas can if you use some basic thermal protection or bury it. If you were to start something like this locally, with similar prices that I was able to get, you'd be looking at roughly $5,000 per person for 20K miles/yr. It's really not an uncommon practice once you get into rural areas.

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