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gryphon1231

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Greetings everyone I am Nick from Phoenix and I once had a bronco raptor but I am in a tough situation currently and figured I would try one last shot of help. No attorney is helping me , private investigator , or ford corporate. I am currently out 75k and my Bronco raptor that I feel I deserve back. I am not new to forums or the truck world I come from a land over at tacomaworld.com over 5-6 years now. Geico my insurance company is trying to help me but not getting much (ive been completely transparent with them and they couldn't believe the story but are fairly invested). Just looking for SOME help from the community

Everyone bare with me and take this thread down if need be. Please no insults im already screwed out the money anyway

STORY:
I purchased a new ish ford bronco raptor (2023 model) off craigslist (March 27). About 10 days or so after purchase I realized I needed a truck (April 11). I traded it into the Chapman Ford (The Bronco) for a new Ford raptor. I had it for 10 days. I get a call Tuesday April 18 from the dealer to immediately bring it back (new car in my possession and registered to me now). Well the thing was stolen (the bronco I bought) BUT from the Ford factory (from the plant). They have over 4 million dollars in Broncos mustang and F150s missing publicly on the news. Now when i bought this Bronco it was a cash deal seller wanted cash only. I do my due diligence I run the carfax comes back clean, I check the door vin to the title it's a match. I check the car vin to the window its a match. Final step the next day I tell him meet me at the DMV he meets me at the DMV. We go in with his title it clears boom I have a Arizona title to this bronco my name the exact vin everything. All is good. Well now I am out the vehicle I purchased and 75 thousand dollars (from the bronco). The Ford dealer is giving it back to Ford. Apparently Ford already got their insurance payout (from the lost bronco). I am out my brand new raptor I also bought as I was forced to return it and the Bronco confiscated. The original vin does not come back stolen either when searched in a national database. I believe Ford corporate should be held liable for losing over 70-80 vehicles from their factory plant? I had to speak to the police and prove I didn't originally take the vehicle and everything.

Over 4.8 million in theft off their lot and of all people I had one in my possession unknowing.

Second I have lots of documentation and photos of person who sold it to me but not their real name / was a cash deal / and alot of paper work saved still with me (records from alaska and California)

The vin I had: 1FMEE5JR6PLB12341

THE REAL VIN IT WAS AND A 2022 ACTUALLY: 1FMEE5JRXNLA50665

Its still sitting locked up at the dealer today. I believe the vehicle is now useless and in reality would be great to just have it back and enjoy it with a branded title till it dies.
1st off, sorry you're going through this . but, stolen property is stolen property. According to your story FORD received payment on an insurance claim for a stolen vehicle and that would mean the vehicle A) belongs to the insurance company or 2) FORD needs to reimburse the insurance company upon return of the vehicle. Regardless, the person who you would need to go after for the money is is there persons you bought the Bronco from off of craigslist. I've never heard of this happening with a major Auto manufacture bur it happens way more often than realize with used cars.

now the PSA, when MY23 Raptors are typically selling for $25 to $50K above MSRP and you find one on Craigslist below MSRP, just don't do it. If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
 

Grumpy

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I've read all 9 pages and amazed I did so. I keep having a reoccurring thought I can't figure out. Why did you sign up as a member yesterday, put in your bio that you own a BRaptor, but based on original post you don't own one. And secondly why did you sign up and feel you had to tell us this horrendous story? I'm not disputing that this may of happened as stated, but want did you think would come from posting it here? I don't understand the logic behind it. You write HELP! in your title, what help did you think we can give? Seems to me you wasted time telling us instead of telling all of it to the proper authorities whoever that may be. If it bothered you this much I'd be on the phone or in person talking to all departments of law enforcement to get resolve. Not here!

There seems to be a lot going on in the story. And you originally stated you can't get help from anyone, ins co, police, dealer. But based on pictures you posted there is a lot to go on. Luggage tags, craigs listing, photos of those involved, not to mention the seller going in with you at DMV. Guaranteed the DMV has interior surveillance to witness person with you. And then in your latest posting you are now saying you hired an investigator, wow that's quick since you didn't have one in your original post earlier today. There is just too many questionable gray areas in this plot.

Ford Bronco Help: I purchased a factory stolen Bronco Raptor and had no idea 7dtEEMmlfa_1422158007457
 
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Figmo

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Sorry. You just got scammed out of $75K. You did everything right but the guy still stung you.

Is it fair? No. But then…who was the guy who told you life was fair?

Do you deserve your Bronco back? No. It’s a stolen vehicle. Doesn’t matter that you didn’t steal it.

Look at it from the other side - if somebody steals your car and then sells it to an unsuspecting sucker….does the buyer get to keep your car? I mean - like you - HE didn’t do anything wrong. Why should he lose his car? I’m sure you get the point.

Do you deserve your $75K back? YES!! But unless you can find the guy and either beat it out of him or have him tried/convicted/forced to pay restitution in hopes he does…..you ain’t seeing that money again.

Thank you for sharing. A cautionary tale for others - to be sure.
 
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OP

ONCEHADABRAPTOR

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1st off, sorry you're going through this . but, stolen property is stolen property. According to your story FORD received payment on an insurance claim for a stolen vehicle and that would mean the vehicle A) belongs to the insurance company or 2) FORD needs to reimburse the insurance company upon return of the vehicle. Regardless, the person who you would need to go after for the money is is there persons you bought the Bronco from off of craigslist. I've never heard of this happening with a major Auto manufacture bur it happens way more often than realize with used cars.

now the PSA, when MY23 Raptors are typically selling for $25 to $50K above MSRP and you find one on Craigslist below MSRP, just don't do it. If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
I agree. At the end of the day im just sitting at rock bottom with out either so its a no loss situation here anyway. Pretty much maxed loss I dont expect it back but im sure one day that guy will get his karma
 

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ONCEHADABRAPTOR

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I've read all 9 pages and amazed I did so. I keep having a reoccurring thought I can't figure out. Why did you sign up as a member yesterday, put in your bio that you own a BRaptor, but based on original post you don't own one. And secondly why did you sign up and feel you had to tell us this horrendous story? I'm not disputing that this may of happened as stated, but want did you think would come from posting it here? I don't understand the logic behind it.

There seems to be a lot going on in the story. And you originally stated you can't get help from anyone, ins co, police, dealer. But based on pictures you posted there is a lot to go on. Luggage tags, craigs listing, photos of those involved, not to mention the seller going in with you at DMV. Guaranteed the DMV has interior surveillance to witness person with you. And then in your latest posting you are now saying you hired an investigator, wow that's quick since you didn't have one in your original post earlier today. There is just too many questionable gray areas in this plot.

7dtEEMmlfa_1422158007457.jpg
Insurance finally called me back after I made the post like 2 hours after and hes doing his best to help thats about it. ex pd of 25 years who works for them. Havent heard from them in 3-5 days Dudes a john doe lots of phone calls for something I wont see again anyways. Thanks for the help grumpy youd be alot more grumpy missing 75k thats for sure
 

BlueBronco

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Wait, what is the lawyer for? Are you planning on suing the dealership to get the stolen BRaptor back?? Or?


All of them have turned me down because they are pretty much contracted with the dealers so they would be going against their own clients. Second what I learned attorneys dont just know all categories of stuff. So many "dealership" attorneys I can call.
 

A907Chick

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Right, they didn't steal it, just bought it with a stolen identity. You'd just need a vin for a second BRaptor of the same color that was being delivered within a day or 2, then pull the scam. Do it in a Friday, drive to AK over the weekend, vin swap and register under the new vin same day, leave immediately and sell it within a few days for cash.
THIS IS IN NO WAY LEGAL ADVICE!!!

But, if I had this case I would be saying that its the dealership who is the last one holding the bag... not you. They are the ones who bought a stolen vehicle, and that is their problem. Not sure of Arizona law, and maybe there is something in AZ law that makes that strategy incorrect, but I would be making that point loud and enough to perhaps scare the dealership into dealing with you. Its too bad you turned in your Raptor before seeking legal advice, I'd have told those idiots to go pound sand (legal term).

You were a purchaser "for value" so to speak, and then sold it yourself. Now if the dealership figured out it was stolen before selling you the Truck, then yes, would be the last one holding onto the stolen item and it gets returned to its rightful owner.

Couple questions though. You said it was a dude, but the two owners were both women, Gina Marks and Hanson (registration said or, I assume then it was jointly owned). If so, why did only Hanson sign the bill of sale to you. And, the bill of sale said 87k, not 75k...
The title had the two women's name and an "or" in-between their names. In AK either party can legally sign off on the title if it says "or" instead of "and".
THIS IS IN NO WAY LEGAL ADVICE!!!

But, if I had this case I would be saying that its the dealership who is the last one holding the bag... not you. They are the ones who bought a stolen vehicle, and that is their problem. Not sure of Arizona law, and maybe there is something in AZ law that makes that strategy incorrect, but I would be making that point loud and enough to perhaps scare the dealership into dealing with you. Its too bad you turned in your Raptor before seeking legal advice, I'd have told those idiots to go pound sand (legal term).

You were a purchaser "for value" so to speak, and then sold it yourself. Now if the dealership figured out it was stolen before selling you the Truck, then yes, would be the last one holding onto the stolen item and it gets returned to its rightful owner.

Couple questions though. You said it was a dude, but the two owners were both women, Gina Marks and Hanson (registration said or, I assume then it was jointly owned). If so, why did only Hanson sign the bill of sale to you. And, the bill of sale said 87k, not 75k...
 
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AZarea51

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Greetings everyone I am Nick from Phoenix and I once had a bronco raptor but I am in a tough situation currently and figured I would try one last shot of help. No attorney is helping me , private investigator , or ford corporate. I am currently out 75k and my Bronco raptor that I feel I deserve back. I am not new to forums or the truck world I come from a land over at tacomaworld.com over 5-6 years now. Geico my insurance company is trying to help me but not getting much (ive been completely transparent with them and they couldn't believe the story but are fairly invested). Just looking for SOME help from the community

Everyone bare with me and take this thread down if need be. Please no insults im already screwed out the money anyway

STORY:
I purchased a new ish ford bronco raptor (2023 model) off craigslist (March 27). About 10 days or so after purchase I realized I needed a truck (April 11). I traded it into the Chapman Ford (The Bronco) for a new Ford raptor. I had it for 10 days. I get a call Tuesday April 18 from the dealer to immediately bring it back (new car in my possession and registered to me now). Well the thing was stolen (the bronco I bought) BUT from the Ford factory (from the plant). They have over 4 million dollars in Broncos mustang and F150s missing publicly on the news. Now when i bought this Bronco it was a cash deal seller wanted cash only. I do my due diligence I run the carfax comes back clean, I check the door vin to the title it's a match. I check the car vin to the window its a match. Final step the next day I tell him meet me at the DMV he meets me at the DMV. We go in with his title it clears boom I have a Arizona title to this bronco my name the exact vin everything. All is good. Well now I am out the vehicle I purchased and 75 thousand dollars (from the bronco). The Ford dealer is giving it back to Ford. Apparently Ford already got their insurance payout (from the lost bronco). I am out my brand new raptor I also bought as I was forced to return it and the Bronco confiscated. The original vin does not come back stolen either when searched in a national database. I believe Ford corporate should be held liable for losing over 70-80 vehicles from their factory plant? I had to speak to the police and prove I didn't originally take the vehicle and everything.

Over 4.8 million in theft off their lot and of all people I had one in my possession unknowing.

Second I have lots of documentation and photos of person who sold it to me but not their real name / was a cash deal / and alot of paper work saved still with me (records from alaska and California)

The vin I had: 1FMEE5JR6PLB12341

THE REAL VIN IT WAS AND A 2022 ACTUALLY: 1FMEE5JRXNLA50665

Its still sitting locked up at the dealer today. I believe the vehicle is now useless and in reality would be great to just have it back and enjoy it with a branded title till it dies.
I remember seeing this bronco raptor on Craigslist in Phoenix. I thought it was strange that the guy wanted cash only ($100 dollar bills) to be exact and said he didn’t live locally but was going to pick it up out of storage.
 

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chartzilla

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Bigger givaway is that the sticker says Date: 10/22 but it was built in March of '23.
Also that sticker is missing the Ford security background graphic (I don't want to post a picture of my sticker but check your Bronco to see what I'm talking about).

Also to the left of that sticker is the yellow tire pressure sticker, which normally includes a barcode with the VIN number. If you look closely you can see where the scammer somewhat sloppily cut the VIN off.

I feel terrible for OP but this is a sort of fascinating look into organized vehicle theft.

IMG_0792.jpeg
 
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Crowza

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I agree. At the end of the day im just sitting at rock bottom with out either so its a no loss situation here anyway. Pretty much maxed loss I dont expect it back but im sure one day that guy will get his karma
You need to contact your local FBI office and speak to the special agent in charge of cybercrime. Generally, they will not investigate anything when there is a loss of than $30,000. However, this qualifies. They more than likely have a case open on this auto theft ring, so your photos and evidence would be very valuable.
 
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broncobase1

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Yeah but, why did you lose the Raptor (truck)? Even if you used the Bronco as a down payment, and had to finance part of it, it was yours? Why couldn’t you just refinance it again? So now there’s a 23 Raptor with mileage on it sitting on a dealership’s lot? What’s stopping you from getting it again?

The Bronco incident is convoluted enough, but losing the truck too is ridiculous, IMO.
Its pretty simple really. The Bronco he traded has no value as a stolen vehicle. Sure he could pay cash or refinance it again, but were talking about the value of a Bronco Raptor, not merely a down payment. So he decided to return the new Raptor truck, which is what I would do. Either way, he is out the value of the stolen Bronco. The only thing ridiculous about it is the scumbag criminals involved in stealing and selling the Bronco. Man I'm tempted to rant about that right now, but I would get canceled again....
 

Massbronco

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I think you said earlier that Ford was paid out by their insurance company. In that scenario, I assume Ford would have conveyed title (or certificate of origin) to their insurance company who now has legal right to the vehicle. If they conveyed certificate of origin and the insurance company never titled it, there would be no carfax record etc. It's just an awful scenario to be in. I hope you find someone that can help you.
 

710-oil-614

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Sorry to hear about this. Best of luck, but as some has said, this is an FBI issue now, if you want to pursue it.

As for the 10 days, that does not seem suspect, I have had friends buy vehicles and get rid of them in less than a week before the vehicle was not what they thought and they did not do any real research. These people have the money to do so and do not take a loss when doing so.

IE it happens. All the time. You just do not run with people who can and have done it.
Wrong. I just don't run with people who get scammed out of $75k and turn around try and get right quick before shit hits the fan.

I paid cash for my first bronco and sold it a few weeks later. However I bought mine at a dealership and everything was on the up and up....
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