Dads_bronze_bronco

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I read an article on putting a lift and larger tires on a Ranger. It stated that bar is an add on to pass quartering impact tests required for US certification. Since the current Ranger (and Bronco) are modifications of the Aussie design they added them to pass safety certification
Weird.



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MaverickMan

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Especially since the bronco is supposed to be the platform for the new US ranger, right? Wouldnt they come up with something better than a bolt on tube when they were redesignig the platform?

About this shock thing, Ive been told that the shock will be nothing fancy. However with this frankenranger desert runner show off video, they do kinda look like coil overs, maybe this video is of the bronco raptor and not standard 2 setups that we've heard of. This is the raptor version with big tires and coilovers, but the other 2 (base and fx4?) will have a standard shock setup. Mabye it will be a strait forward swap to coilovers?

Hope so!
 

BAUS67

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About this shock thing, Ive been told that the shock will be nothing fancy. However with this frankenranger desert runner show off video, they do kinda look like coil overs, maybe this video is of the bronco raptor and not standard 2 setups that we've heard of. This is the raptor version with big tires and coilovers, but the other 2 (base and fx4?) will have a standard shock setup. Mabye it will be a strait forward swap to coilovers?

Hope so!
OK so I would like an engineer (I know there are lots) here explain this for everyone because when I try to it seems to get taken the wrong way because I'm a little to blunt about stuff.

What is a coilover or better yet what is the difference between a strut and a coilover. here is my take on it...........................


Both strut and coilover have the same basic architecture. The "shock" part(damper) goes through the spring and is connected at the top by a mount. where they differ to me is how they are mounted. The way I see it a "strut" is for the most part in a car application. Where there is no upper a-arm, the strut connects at the top by the mount and at the bottom is connected to the spindle/knuckle, acting as the upper a-arm. In a coilover it is connected to the lower a-arm or axle (not the knuckle)and the top is mounted to frame (same as a strut). Most cases a coilover is ride height is adjustable and a strut is not.

Now how does the Bronco differ than most 4X4s I see ???? it doesn't have shocks on the back it has a shock with a coil spring intergraded with it so I would term these as coilovers by description.
Unfortunately most of the time this is called a strut. Most front applications (big three) have what is termed a strut front end and they sell a coilover conversion. but to me it is the same setup. So I would just like some clarity for everyone here so the people who aren't gearheads know the difference between a strut and a coilover. I know what I term as the difference but that doesn't mean I'm right.

Its like differential talk. Open diff (one wheel peel), Locker/Limited slip( does both open and spool) and spool(both axles locked together no matter what). That's the three options, IMO. Both locker and limited slip have the same function, open to turn and "locked" when going straight. it's just the way it is "locked". either by clutch material(limited slip), not very good at staying "locked", or air which will stay locked until you take the air away, then there is electric, works the same as air. Detriot Locker good example it's a limited slip but it's called a locker. .............................. see where I'm going with this. Being in auto parts and selling this stuff all the time it is amazing how most do not understand how stuff works but yet they can say the terms but have no clue what they are talking about.

Sorry to get off point.
 

frinesi2

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A shock absorber (a.k.a. "damper" or "shock") turns the spring oscillations in to heat, dampening the motion so it doesn't bounce.

A coilover shock is a damper with the spring coil mounted over the damper body as one unit to provide spring force and damping in one package. It only handles loads directly along its axis.

A strut is a beefy shock absorber that is designed to provide lateral support as a suspension member in addition to handling vertical forces.

Most struts are also coilovers, since most strut suspensions are used for packaging reasons.
 

Jalisurr

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OK so I would like an engineer (I know there are lots) here explain this for everyone because when I try to it seems to get taken the wrong way because I'm a little to blunt about stuff.

What is a coilover or better yet what is the difference between a strut and a coilover. here is my take on it...........................


Both strut and coilover have the same basic architecture. The "shock" part(damper) goes through the spring and is connected at the top by a mount. where they differ to me is how they are mounted. The way I see it a "strut" is for the most part in a car application. Where there is no upper a-arm, the strut connects at the top by the mount and at the bottom is connected to the spindle/knuckle, acting as the upper a-arm. In a coilover it is connected to the lower a-arm or axle (not the knuckle)and the top is mounted to frame (same as a strut). Most cases a coilover is ride height is adjustable and a strut is not.

Now how does the Bronco differ than most 4X4s I see ???? it doesn't have shocks on the back it has a shock with a coil spring intergraded with it so I would term these as coilovers by description.
Unfortunately most of the time this is called a strut. Most front applications (big three) have what is termed a strut front end and they sell a coilover conversion. but to me it is the same setup. So I would just like some clarity for everyone here so the people who aren't gearheads know the difference between a strut and a coilover. I know what I term as the difference but that doesn't mean I'm right.

Its like differential talk. Open diff (one wheel peel), Locker/Limited slip( does both open and spool) and spool(both axles locked together no matter what). That's the three options, IMO. Both locker and limited slip have the same function, open to turn and "locked" when going straight. it's just the way it is "locked". either by clutch material(limited slip), not very good at staying "locked", or air which will stay locked until you take the air away, then there is electric, works the same as air. Detriot Locker good example it's a limited slip but it's called a locker. .............................. see where I'm going with this. Being in auto parts and selling this stuff all the time it is amazing how most do not understand how stuff works but yet they can say the terms but have no clue what they are talking about.

Sorry to get off point.
'Strut' is generally used to refer to MacPherson strut style suspension, which you described correctly. Essentially the shock body is mounted to the top of the knuckle and used as the upper suspension member. This is contrasted to double wishbone (upper and lower a-arm) or multi-link suspension, where the shock absorber (shock) is used only as a damper and not a stressed member. You can see the difference in design looking at how beefy the mounts are on a strut versus a regular shock:
1586388072917.png


A 'coilover' is a shortening of 'coil over shock', which is quite literally any suspension design where the coil spring sits over the shock absorber and the lower spring perch is part of the shock body, rather than being two separate units. See this picture of a suspension kit. The front units (outer two) are coilovers, where the rears (inner two) are separate shocks and springs:
1586388361098.png


Often the term 'coilover' is used only to refer to aftermarket units where the spring mount can be adjusted on the shock, allowing for ride height adjustability, but any design where the coil spring sits on the shock is really a coilover.

Notably, 'strut' and 'coilover' are far from mutually exclusive. Most struts are indeed coilovers, but it is possible (though I don't know of any examples off-hand) to have a strut style suspension with separate springs. Similarly, you can have a double wishbone or multi-link suspension with either coilovers or separate shocks and springs. Many sports cars use suspension like the kit above, with double wishbone and coilover in the front, and multi-link with separate shocks and springs in the rear.

As this pertains to the Bronco, what we've seen so far indicates that they will be using a coilover suspension in the rear, as there are no separate spring mounts. This is generally a good thing, because it will make replacement with aftermarket units somewhat easier.
 

Engineerd

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Just for giggles, the Porsche 911 used a strut front suspension with a torsion bar, so technically that is a strut that is not a coil-over. You guys are bang on the money otherwise, typically a strut takes lateral loading and replaces a suspension member. Many new small SUVs (and CUVs) use struts front and rear because you dont need a upper control arm, which saves a bunch of room.
 

BAUS67

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A shock absorber (a.k.a. "damper" or "shock") turns the spring oscillations in to heat, dampening the motion so it doesn't bounce.

A coilover shock is a damper with the spring coil mounted over the damper body as one unit to provide spring force and damping in one package. It only handles loads directly along its axis.

A strut is a beefy shock absorber that is designed to provide lateral support as a suspension member in addition to handling vertical forces.

Most struts are also coilovers, since most strut suspensions are used for packaging reasons.
'Strut' is generally used to refer to MacPherson strut style suspension, which you described correctly. Essentially the shock body is mounted to the top of the knuckle and used as the upper suspension member. This is contrasted to double wishbone (upper and lower a-arm) or multi-link suspension, where the shock absorber (shock) is used only as a damper and not a stressed member. You can see the difference in design looking at how beefy the mounts are on a strut versus a regular shock:


A 'coilover' is a shortening of 'coil over shock', which is quite literally any suspension design where the coil spring sits over the shock absorber and the lower spring perch is part of the shock body, rather than being two separate units. See this picture of a suspension kit. The front units (outer two) are coilovers, where the rears (inner two) are separate shocks and springs:


Often the term 'coilover' is used only to refer to aftermarket units where the spring mount can be adjusted on the shock, allowing for ride height adjustability, but any design where the coil spring sits on the shock is really a coilover.

Notably, 'strut' and 'coilover' are far from mutually exclusive. Most struts are indeed coilovers, but it is possible (though I don't know of any examples off-hand) to have a strut style suspension with separate springs. Similarly, you can have a double wishbone or multi-link suspension with either coilovers or separate shocks and springs. Many sports cars use suspension like the kit above, with double wishbone and coilover in the front, and multi-link with separate shocks and springs in the rear.

As this pertains to the Bronco, what we've seen so far indicates that they will be using a coilover suspension in the rear, as there are no separate spring mounts. This is generally a good thing, because it will make replacement with aftermarket units somewhat easier.

Thank you Frinesi2 and Jalisurr, I 'm not that good with a computer to whip that stuff up like that in minutes it would take me hours do all that :LOL: Anyway …… very good, which shows why I don't like use the term coilover for what comes "stock" because when you say coilover people think of the coilover you see on a KOH buggy not the coilover that comes factory. On a side note, with the Bronco rear coilover kicked forward at a 45 degree angle I'm sure this helps with high speed stability. ;)
 
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BAUS67

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Just for giggles, the Porsche 911 used a strut front suspension with a torsion bar, so technically that is a strut that is not a coil-over. You guys are bang on the money otherwise, typically a strut takes lateral loading and replaces a suspension member. Many new small SUVs (and CUVs) use struts front and rear because you dont need a upper control arm, which saves a bunch of room.

There is always that one that has to throw the better idea in the operation. :LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:
 

frinesi2

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Just for giggles, the Porsche 911 used a strut front suspension with a torsion bar, so technically that is a strut that is not a coil-over. You guys are bang on the money otherwise, typically a strut takes lateral loading and replaces a suspension member. Many new small SUVs (and CUVs) use struts front and rear because you dont need a upper control arm, which saves a bunch of room.
Yeah I got to wondering if any cars uses torsion bars with struts and I figured if anybody did it would be Volkswagen. Looks like I was close :LOL:
 

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Okay, so the Bronco has rear coilovers confirmed. Maybe I missed it but what will the Bronco front have?
 

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Okay, so the Bronco has rear coilovers confirmed. Maybe I missed it but what will the Bronco front have?

I would say coilovers as well just because of what we were discussing. It has a upper a-arm and therefore not part of the suspension so it would be coilover not strut.
 

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I would say coilovers as well just because of what we were discussing. It has a upper a-arm and therefore not part of the suspension so it would be coilover not strut.
Not necessarily, it's entirely possible to have suspension that is neither coilover nor strut, such as double wishbone with separate shock and spring units. Off hand, an example is an old S10 where the lower spring mount was the lower control arm, rather than the shock body. Also, Corvettes with the transverse leaf spring.

However, in this case you seem to be correct that it's coilover in the front as well, as we can clearly see that there isn't any spring mount on the lower control arm, so unless they did something really weird it has to mount to the shock body, hence coilover.
1586392400731.png
 

BAUS67

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Not necessarily, it's entirely possible to have suspension that is neither coilover nor strut, such as double wishbone with separate shock and spring units. Off hand, an example is an old S10 where the lower spring mount was the lower control arm, rather than the shock body. Also, Corvettes with the transverse leaf spring.

Which is 2WD .........….I think the 4wd was a coilover. you wouldn't have the room to put the spring and the CV shaft also. Maybe I'm wrong, that was a long time ago to me.
 

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It can be very confusing, what people call what. Jeep libertys use these struts(as they are listed) on the front end in a double wishbone. I try to only use "coilovers" for aftermarket rebuildable types of setups. Anything thats shipped with the spring compressed from the manufacturer typically falls in the strut column.
Maybe my info i got about the shocks is in reference to the shock part of a standard type of coilover. I was told there are two separate part numbers for a 2 standard type shocks. I do hope they are better than the type that jeep used on the liberty. My mother inlaws liberty flexes like a gokart. But im super glad its not torsion bars because they are just plain weird and squeeky.

7d1540ea7d414a35a53eaf2f96f9fda4_490.jpg
 

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'Strut' is generally used to refer to MacPherson strut style suspension, which you described correctly. Essentially the shock body is mounted to the top of the knuckle and used as the upper suspension member. This is contrasted to double wishbone (upper and lower a-arm) or multi-link suspension, where the shock absorber (shock) is used only as a damper and not a stressed member. You can see the difference in design looking at how beefy the mounts are on a strut versus a regular shock:
1586388072917.png


A 'coilover' is a shortening of 'coil over shock', which is quite literally any suspension design where the coil spring sits over the shock absorber and the lower spring perch is part of the shock body, rather than being two separate units. See this picture of a suspension kit. The front units (outer two) are coilovers, where the rears (inner two) are separate shocks and springs:
1586388361098.png


Often the term 'coilover' is used only to refer to aftermarket units where the spring mount can be adjusted on the shock, allowing for ride height adjustability, but any design where the coil spring sits on the shock is really a coilover.

Notably, 'strut' and 'coilover' are far from mutually exclusive. Most struts are indeed coilovers, but it is possible (though I don't know of any examples off-hand) to have a strut style suspension with separate springs. Similarly, you can have a double wishbone or multi-link suspension with either coilovers or separate shocks and springs. Many sports cars use suspension like the kit above, with double wishbone and coilover in the front, and multi-link with separate shocks and springs in the rear.

As this pertains to the Bronco, what we've seen so far indicates that they will be using a coilover suspension in the rear, as there are no separate spring mounts. This is generally a good thing, because it will make replacement with aftermarket units somewhat easier.
The 4th gen Mustang (maybe other gens too? I've only messed with a 95) used front struts with a separate spring. They have a single A-arm attached to the K member, with an inboard mounted spring, the wheel hub attached to the ball joint, and strut mounted to the wheel hub and strut tower perch.

Photo pulled from American Muscle customer Gary S.:
1586404683527.png
 



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