That’s it I need to rant

[530Squatch]

Well shit!! Went to the Local Ford Dealer to 'browse' and ended up bringing this home (well, on Monday as I need to get my pin #) to hold me over until my 2023 Bronco gets here . Giving my CR-V to a grand son so needed another vehicle I can tow. Got a screaming deal with D-plan and incentives (-2K for cash, -$500 for Military, -5K ADM) MSRP was $44,600, I got it for $34250 OTD! with a leveling kit.

Sponsored

 

[BroncoRevital]

Do you know why? Aerodynamics. The fuel economy of the 2.7 in the F-150 drops 23% in the 2.7 Bronco BL because the Bronco BL is an aerodynamic brick (i.e., 17 combined for the Bronco BL / 22 combined for the F-150 = 77%).

Yeah I get it it’s not hard to understand or see that. All I’m saying is we seem to be compromising quite a bit for what seems to be little in MPG saving. The F150 is quite a brick too and heavier. I would love to see the actual difference of a Coyote in a Bronco but yeah. I’m just here to complain right now

 

[Mattwings]

I understand your frustration and you definitely have some good points. That being said, you can say the same about just about any vehicle. Toyota did build the FJ and it failed. Styling? It’s hard to please everyone and to make the vehicle meet crash standards, meet the design goals and use space efficiently, there are only so many variations. Bigger 2 door? I had a Jeep LJ, I thought it was perfect (except 2 doors, IMO just suck, including the three Broncos and one Jeep 2 door I have owned) and the market overall said “four door please”. They make a Bronco with more space, it’s a four door, because the market has said, over and over, we don’t want two doors and the two doors we do want are complete toys, so make sure they look like it! At the end of the day regulations, trying to thread the needle with what consumers say they want, what they actually buy and trying to make a profit all form the final vehicles we get from Ford or any other manufacturer. Eco boost? I have had Coyote motors in my F150 and several small block GM engines. None of them made as much power, were more fun to drive or were as efficient as my last two 2.7s. Other than soundtrack, I would not go back. What are my main gripes about the Bronco? The carpet on the back of the seats with MGV interior (totally missed IMO) and the 10R60. That being said, it’s not making me change my mind. I assume the transmission is related to mileage and consumer preference. The 10R60 likely has driveablility and mileage benefits along with lower cost (possibly) that the engineers and product managers decided made sense. Good write up and I hoped it help your mental state!

 

[BroncoRevital]

I understand your frustration and you definitely have some good points. That being said, you can say the same about just about any vehicle. Toyota did build the FJ and it failed. Styling? It’s hard to please everyone and to make the vehicle meet crash standards, meet the design goals and use space efficiently, there are only so many variations. Bigger 2 door? I had a Jeep LJ, I thought it was perfect (except 2 doors, IMO just suck, including the three Broncos and one Jeep 2 door I have owned) and the market overall said “four door please”. They make a Bronco with more space, it’s a four door, because the market has said, over and over, we don’t want two doors and the two doors we do want are complete toys, so make sure they look like it! At the end of the day regulations, trying to thread the needle with what consumers say they want, what they actually buy and trying to make a profit all form the final vehicles we get from Ford or any other manufacturer. Eco boost? I have had Coyote motors in my F150 and several small block GM engines. None of them made as much power, were more fun to drive or were as efficient as my last two 2.7s. Other than soundtrack, I would not go back. What are my main gripes about the Bronco? The carpet on the back of the seats with MGV interior (totally missed IMO) and the 10R60. That being said, it’s not making me change my mind. I assume the transmission is related to mileage and consumer preference. The 10R60 likely has driveablility and mileage benefits along with lower cost (possibly) that the engineers and product managers decided made sense. Good write up and I hoped it help your mental state!

Haha it has and I know once it comes out and I see it on the road I’ll be feining for it.
I know they can’t please everyone and I’m glad they made a four door I’m not mad at it at all. I just think they missed it on the two door a bit. I made another thread about how the Jeep LJ unlimited should have been the blueprint to fallow. They don’t call that the holy grail of Jeeps for nothing.

As for the Toyota FJ it was really not a failure. The demand for them is so high they selling for over 20 grand even today. Plus they are still selling them around the world. Toyota it seems just didn’t want to put the money into them to update them as it was kind of competing with the 4Runner here. It’s a great vehicle with a few flaws but I wouldn’t call it a failure.

I’m anxious to see how these EcoBoosts hold up. I’m impressed so far for sure but they are still new and looking at them it doesn’t give me confidence on reliability. Seems like way too much going on. But we’ll see and like I said I’m still very excited for it but just had to be real with how I’m feeling about it lately as it seems we keep getting bad news lately.

 

[Mattwings]

Haha it has and I know once it comes out and I see it on the road I’ll be feining for it.
I know they can’t please everyone and I’m glad they made a four door I’m not mad at it at all. I just think they missed it on the two door a bit. I made another thread about how the Jeep LJ unlimited should have been the blueprint to fallow. They don’t call that the holy grail of Jeeps for nothing.

As for the Toyota FJ it was really not a failure. The demand for them is so high they selling for over 20 grand even today. Plus they are still selling them around the world. Toyota it seems just didn’t want to put the money into them to update them as it was kind of competing with the 4Runner here. It’s a great vehicle with a few flaws but I wouldn’t call it a failure.

I’m anxious to see how these EcoBoosts hold up. I’m impressed so far for sure but they are still new and looking at them it doesn’t give me confidence on reliability. Seems like way too much going on. But we’ll see and like I said I’m still very excited for it but just had to be real with how I’m feeling about it lately as it seems we keep getting bad news lately.

I did love my LJ and certainly the FJ had bad timing, but the reason they hold their value so well is because so few were made and options other than Jeep are so limited. Same with the LJ, they didn't make many because the demand wasn't very high. Jeep sales jumped even in the financial crisis once they produced the 4dr. The reason the 2 door is so small, is because people that buy them want them small or they don't sell (other than the Mustang). The reason Toyota doesn't sell the FJ here? Even if they sell for high $, the volume will be small unless they have a 4dr (removable top probably would help too in this segment). I have been fortunate to get exposure to several Broncos, including seat time, don't worry, you will be super impressed (if we ever actually get them in our hands)! I have wanted a replacement for my Jeep since I sold it. I moved from GA to MI and it just was not tolerable on our 3rd world roads for anything more than an hour. The Bronco is light years ahead of Jeep in the ride and handling department, plus the styling in person is much more evident and striking, IMO.

 

[Wanted33]

Yeah it is. If the 4Runner still had a removable top I think I’d have get one. Ford has absolutely nothing midsize until just recently with the Ranger.
With how much this Bronco is going to cost part of me would just rather build up an old Cherokee. I hate to say but the reasonable logical choice is to build up a ten year old Jeep...

There is my plan "B" Zak. I have a new '20 2wd Ranger Super Cab now. It's an impressive little truck, comfortable, and returns quite good mpg's. The 2.3L seems to have been made for the thing. If the Bronco falls by the wayside my plan is to trade for a Crew Cab 4wd Ranger. The way I off road (simple easy trails, fire line roads, long road trips, etc) it will do everything I need, and get dang good gas mileage in the process. Plus it has the 10R80 tranny which helps the entire process. Or, I'll just keep my dang Jeep.

BTW, I was frustrated when I saw the mpgs, and I live in North Carolina. I can't imaging how frustrated you were living in Cali, and paying damn near 4 bucks a gallon already. And, no one knows how much more gas will be by the time the Bronco actually hits the road.

 

[Wanted33]

Agree with all of it.
my biggest issue is trying to find a different vehicle to buy - the current market is ass for used vehicles (too expensive) and I don’t want a jeep...

Sam, check out some YouTubes on the 4wd Ranger. Just something to think about, and get your mind off of the Bronco clusterF.....

 

[Wanted33]

The EPA rating for the F-150 with the 2.7L engine is 20 city / 26 highway / 22 combined.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43458

Same power plant as the 2.7 Bronco Badlands, but much better fuel economy.

Do you know why? Aerodynamics. The fuel economy of the 2.7 in the F-150 drops 23% in the 2.7 Bronco BL because the Bronco BL is an aerodynamic brick (i.e., 17 combined for the Bronco BL / 22 combined for the F-150 = 77%).

Now stuff a 5.0L Coyote (rated on paper at 17 city / 24 highway / 20 combined, based on the article you linked) into the Bronco BL. The fuel economy of the 5.0 Coyote is going to take a similar hit because of the same aerodynamic shape of the 2.7 Bronco BL (i.e., 20 combined for the 5.0 Coyote F-150 X 77% = 15.4 combined for the 5.0 Coyote Bronco BL).

If you assume the 5.0 Coyote F-150 gets 17 combined as a baseline, that equates to 13.1 combined in the Bronco BL (17 x 77% = 13.1).

And those are EPA estimates (on paper). Real world figures will be at least 1-2 MPG lower.

For comparison, the EPA rates the 470-horsepower Rubicon 392 at 13 city / 17 highway / 14 combined.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43682

TL;DR - There is no possible scenario where the Bronco with a V-8 engine gets better fuel economy than with an I-4 engine or a V-6 engine.

And, don't forget the gearing RZ. If my Wrangler JL can get buy with the 3.45 rear gearing I can't understand why Ford is using the 3.73 (standard no squatch) with an engine that has more power, and torque than the Jeep 3.6 NA. Ford could have easily offered the 3.73 as an option, and charged a few coins for the change. Better deal/profit for Ford, and maybe a bit better gas mileage for the buyers.

 

[BroncoRevital]

I did love my LJ and certainly the FJ had bad timing, but the reason they hold their value so well is because so few were made and options other than Jeep are so limited. Same with the LJ, they didn't make many because the demand wasn't very high. Jeep sales jumped even in the financial crisis once they produced the 4dr. The reason the 2 door is so small, is because people that buy them want them small or they don't sell (other than the Mustang). The reason Toyota doesn't sell the FJ here? Even if they sell for high $, the volume will be small unless they have a 4dr (removable top probably would help too in this segment). I have been fortunate to get exposure to several Broncos, including seat time, don't worry, you will be super impressed (if we ever actually get them in our hands)! I have wanted a replacement for my Jeep since I sold it. I moved from GA to MI and it just was not tolerable on our 3rd world roads for anything more than an hour. The Bronco is light years ahead of Jeep in the ride and handling department, plus the styling in person is much more evident and striking, IMO.

Yeah for sure a major part of that resale value is the low amount of them.
But I still think they were good and would have kept selling if they updated them.
Ford definitely did the right thing by making a four door and a two door. I just think the two door a little longer would have had so much more potential. It would still be a fun toy. Like the LJ you could make it into a truck if you wanted to. It’s really what a Bronco 2d should be.
The Bronco is going to be an fantastic ride I can already tell. I’m not mad about the IFS at all and it certainly does have more interior space then a Jeep. These are all mostly small complaints I have but they have just been building up but yeah overall I’m still fully stoked on it. Just have my concerns. $60 grand worth of them

 

[MyATV]

FYI, we will use our Bronco like we use our Jeep (that averages 24-25 on the highway). As a road trip (5K+ miles) vehicle, and exploring the back roads along the way. A couple extra mpgs means a lot on that kind of trip.

That's damn good. I'm lucky to get 17 mpg most weeks. Maybe 20 on a road trip. That's 4-year-old 2-door Sahara with 6-speed manual and V6. I don't drive it like a sports car, but then my shifting habits may not exactly be like eco mode either.

 

[Wanted33]

That's damn good. I'm lucky to get 17 mpg most weeks. Maybe 20 on a road trip. That's 4-year-old 2-door Sahara with 6-speed manual and V6. I don't drive it like a sports car, but then my shifting habits may not exactly be like eco mode either.

I think just that little redesign Jeep did with the front end, and windshield of the JL made a big difference with the mpgs. It's still a massive "bug" killer for sure, but that little slope back seemed to do the trick. And I'm just guessing here, but the side vents lets the air flow through the engine compartment, and doesn't trap it in there like the JK's. I know Jeep did that to mitigate the hood flapping problem, but I think it turned out to be a a 2 fold solution.

 

[Efthreeoh]

Same here. I was biting my tongue and being Mr Brightside but when those fuel mileages came in and now the questionable nonsensical transmission choice I’m wondering just what the hell Ford is doing. Are they under building it to make us go for the Warthog? Not a good idea. This compromise on the engines now makes no sense. I understand they are impressive power wise but I’m worried about reliability and being able to work on it. Simple and reliable is key when out in the middle of nowhere off-roading. I was totally cool with not having a V8 until now. There is now no point to all this over complicated mess we have in the engine bay. Like the old V8 drink commercials “we could have had a V8. *slaps forehead*!
I get the frame doesn’t allow for it but you just re designed the frame! Ya could have made it accommodate it.
Ugh

I have a '09 Hummer H3T Alpha. It's basically the same size as the New Bronco. The Alpha package has GM's 5.3L small block in the engine bay. While the GM small block is compact because it is a pushrod engine, it still fills the engine compartment. So the truck is over a decade old now and it's not easy to service. Changing the spark plugs on my H3T is a PIA. It requires removing the front wheels and fender liners and then some extension bars and contortion to get the to the plugs for the rear cylinders. A simple oil change makes a mess simply because the engine is stuffed into a chassis originally designed for a straight-5, or straight-6 engine configuration. Then came the time the SES light came on and the code was an over-pressure fuel condition. Following the diagnosis procedure in AllData, step one was a new fuel pump (made no sense to me). New pump in, and the code persisted. The local GM dealership finally had to call the GM tech center to validate the repair was a new fuel pump control computer.

Automobiles became "complicated" well over 20 years ago, so your gripe about overly complicated engines left the barn a long time ago. All modern vehicles require software and a code reader to service and repair since the advent of OBD1 in the 1980's (thanks to California). OBDII in 1996 made it a little better since the trouble codes were standardized between all manufacturers (again thanks to California...).

So, adding a non-turbo 5.0L to the Bronco wouldn't make the truck anymore reliable than the two engines currently offered, because it has a just-as complicated emissions system as the Ecoboost engines. All vehicles now have numerous computer control units, numerous feedback sensors and millions of lines of computer code, all that is highly reliable, but less failure prone than a good 'ole point-gap ignition system with a phenolic distributor cap and vacuum-advanced timing that wore out every 20,000 miles. The only difference is one could carry spares easily in the glove compartment; unless the throttle cable broke, or the check valve ball dropped into the oil sump and the engine is billowing white smoke out the exhaust as the intake begins to suck oil from the crankcase... (my 1972 Pinto).

Bitch at the Politicians, not Ford.

 

[Garemlin]

Very well thought out rant.

I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the fuel mileage. I used to get 20/25 or so in my 2.7 F-150 with the six speed transmission. I know the Bronco is less aerodynamic. But the numbers shouldn't be that far off. I get better mileage in my Gladiator. And that is as much of a brick as the Bronco with added bed drag. Sorry as a daily driver and trip vehicle mpg is a slight concern. Save the "buy a Prius" comments. Some of us still want a vehicle we will love an love to drive and get decent mileage.

I still love most things about the Bronco. I still want one. But I will say I am nowhere near as excited as I was last July. I'm so glad I'm waiting it out a few years to see where all the chips fall. Things will hopefully be sorted out and the aftermarket will have time to catch up so I have options for those damn fender flares. LOL

 

[BroncoRevital]

I have a '09 Hummer H3T Alpha. It's basically the same size as the New Bronco. The Alpha package has GM's 5.3L small block in the engine bay. While the GM small block is compact because it is a pushrod engine, it still fills the engine compartment. So the truck is over a decade old now and it's not easy to service. Changing the spark plugs on my H3T is a PIA. It requires removing the front wheels and fender liners and then some extension bars and contortion to get the to the plugs for the rear cylinders. A simple oil change makes a mess simply because the engine is stuffed into a chassis originally designed for a straight-5, or straight-6 engine configuration. Then came the time the SES light came on and the code was an over-pressure fuel condition. Following the diagnosis procedure in AllData, step one was a new fuel pump (made no sense to me). New pump in, and the code persisted. The local GM dealership finally had to call the GM tech center to validate the repair was a new fuel pump control computer.

Automobiles became "complicated" well over 20 years ago, so your gripe about overly complicated engines left the barn a long time ago. All modern vehicles require software and a code reader to service and repair since the advent of OBD1 in the 1980's (thanks to California). OBDII in 1996 made it a little better since the trouble codes were standardized between all manufacturers (again thanks to California...).

So, adding a non-turbo 5.0L to the Bronco wouldn't make the truck anymore reliable than the two engines currently offered, because it has a just-as complicated emissions system as the Ecoboost engines. All vehicles now have numerous computer control units, numerous feedback sensors and millions of lines of computer code, all that is highly reliable, but less failure prone than a good 'ole point-gap ignition system with a phenolic distributor cap and vacuum-advanced timing that wore out every 20,000 miles. The only difference is one could carry spares easily in the glove compartment; unless the throttle cable broke, or the check valve ball dropped into the oil sump and the engine is billowing white smoke out the exhaust as the intake begins to suck oil from the crankcase... (my 1972 Pinto).

Bitch at the Politicians, not Ford.

Definitely some good points. It’s a love hate relationship with today’s engines and technology. It’s amazing that a four banger can produce as much power as an old 5.0. As for the regulations I’m not super upset about today’s regulations as that’s just part of the problem but the other problem is maximizing everything. It’s why it’s a love hate as we love the power and fuel efficiency but to get all that it’s complicated.
I happen to like the less smog here too but yeah it’s a pain in the ass.

 

[Mattwings]

Very well thought out rant.

I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed with the fuel mileage. I used to get 20/25 or so in my 2.7 F-150 with the six speed transmission. I know the Bronco is less aerodynamic. But the numbers shouldn't be that far off. I get better mileage in my Gladiator. And that is as much of a brick as the Bronco with added bed drag. Sorry as a daily driver and trip vehicle mpg is a slight concern. Save the "buy a Prius" comments. Some of us still want a vehicle we will love an love to drive and get decent mileage.

I still love most things about the Bronco. I still want one. But I will say I am nowhere near as excited as I was last July. I'm so glad I'm waiting it out a few years to see where all the chips fall. Things will hopefully be sorted out and the aftermarket will have time to catch up so I have options for those damn fender flares. LOL

It's interesting about the mileage, it's exactly what I expected after owning two 2.7s and having a 2.3 Ranger FX4 (averages about 22 mpg) in the family. I looked at my truck last night and long term combined mileage is 20.6 mpg. To be fair, the gearing is "lower" and power of the base 2.3 significantly exceeds the V6 in the Jeep and the 2.7 is only exceed by Jeep in the $75k "392". Ford has a long history of making heavy vehicles, Bronco not being an exception. My 5.0 F150 (same options and trim) averaged just over 18mpg at the end my my ownership and did not have nearly the acceleration or power of the 2.7. If you got 25 in your F150 (and it is similarly equipped) I would think you will do the same in your Bronco. My F150 will get 24-25 under 65, most MI highways are more like 80 mph flow of traffic.

Sponsored