UCA's, Alignment & Caster...

[Chritaka]

1. I've read a lot of threads on this and seems most are able to still hit Ford's specs with up to a 1.5"-2.5" lift and stock UCA's. I keep reading about our CV's being short and aftermarket UCA's can help with the bind, but how? It would seem CV bind would solely be based on the amount of lift and the higher angle you're putting your CV's/UCA/LCA at on a constant basis. So first, I'd like to understand how the UCA's can help this CV issue... Yes, I've already watched several of the recommended vids on UCA's...
2. My target is 2.5" lift with 37x12.5R17 on 0 offset wheels per the recommendation of numerous threads. I have a set of ADS coilovers on order, being fitted with heavier springs currently. I'll be selling my HOSS 3.0 Fox's. There are so many threads on what rubs and what doesn't, and so many variables that can impact, which caster surely plays a role in. So is more caster always better, or to what limit? How negative is the caster getting on a 2.5" lift and what is the recommended degree of correction?
3. If I need to get UCA's, I want the best possible compromise of function, maintenance and reliability. I've narrowed down to:

Icon Tubular w/Delta Joint Pro - Per Icon support, these have 1* of caster built-in. DJ Pro's are much more expensive to replace (well retrofits are ~200+, but I can't find rebuild kit pricing for Pros), UCA would have to be removed and appear to need special tools. I'm sure most are aware of the sealed uni-ball design and 90* range of motion. Many use these and have great reports here...

JBA Tubular UCA (1-4" lift) - These have 3* of caster built-in and also note 90* range of motion. Their replacement ball joint appear to be much cheaper @ $67 ea. (their design and built in-house) and you can also substitute a Moog in it's place in pinch. They are also much easier to replace per their design via 4xnuts/bolts. I know these are big with Tacos/Tundras. From the alignment specs, this caster should be nearly on the money as is...

I also looked at SPC, but I keep hearing they're designed for alignment and not for offroad. I've read a lot of threads on QC and bushing/bearing issues as well.

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[Chritaka]

Alignment specs from another thread:

 

[Chritaka]

In follow-up to my #1, I found this to be one of the most informative...and why I'm questioning how aftermarket UCA's would help the CV's if you're still able to align in spec with OEM UCA's...

 

[PWillette]

The Bronco is my first IFS truck so I'm by no means an expert but I do not believe the UCAs have any affect on the CV angles. CV angles are affected by lift and shock travel (compression or droop).

I'm at just above 2" of lift on Eibach 2.0 PTC coil overs and probably could have gotten by with the OEM UCAs to get back into alignment but I decided to go with the Icon Tubulars w/ the Delta joint II as they have basically the same range of motion of the OEM UCAs.

 

[Snacktime]

I have been poking around the control arms market, its a giant black hole. I want upper control arms but I am not going to gamble on what brand to buy.

So yes upper control arms factor into the cv axles since they help with the lower arm adjusters. The more you lift the bronco in the front the more you have to space out the bottom arms with the cam adjusters. This is how you get closer to overextend the cv axles and damage the internal ring clip that pokes holes in cv boots.

Issues, you want more caster to help with daily driving and a slightly shorter arm to help with camber. These are not published specs or known numbers. Its just this black hole of everyone making them and people buying them.

 

[PWillette]

I have been poking around the control arms market, its a giant black hole. I want upper control arms but I am not going to gamble on what brand to buy.

So yes upper control arms factor into the cv axles since they help with the lower arm adjusters. The more you lift the bronco in the front the more you have to space out the bottom arms with the cam adjusters. This is how you get closer to overextend the cv axles and damage the internal ring clip that pokes holes in cv boots.

Issues, you want more caster to help with daily driving and a slightly shorter arm to help with camber. These are not published specs or known numbers. Its just this black hole of everyone making them and people buying them.

Thanks for that description. So in theory an aftermarket UCA w/ corrected castor should alleviate having to space out the lower arms...is that correct?

 

[Snacktime]

@PWillette you want some form of camber correction. Not sure if any makers beside spc and billet arms with adjustable hiems currently do this. Also not sure what amount of correction would be ideal. Hard part would be finding an alignment shop that would be willing to spend the time dialing this in if you get adjustable upper control arms.

Ideally I want a tube upper control arm that uses the factory ball joint(for parts availability) that adds 2 degrees of caster and is 3/8 of an inch shorter. Someone please make this?

 

[Bronco1010]

Just out of curiosity, I have seen quite a few customers at my dealership with 37s and lifts with these control arms. In your opinion are they any good?

https://zoneoffroad.com/products/fo...joint-2021-ford-bronco?variant=40250159005784

1. I've read a lot of threads on this and seems most are able to still hit Ford's specs with up to a 1.5"-2.5" lift and stock UCA's. I keep reading about our CV's being short and aftermarket UCA's can help with the bind, but how? It would seem CV bind would solely be based on the amount of lift and the higher angle you're putting your CV's/UCA/LCA at on a constant basis. So first, I'd like to understand how the UCA's can help this CV issue... Yes, I've already watched several of the recommended vids on UCA's...
2. My target is 2.5" lift with 37x12.5R17 on 0 offset wheels per the recommendation of numerous threads. I have a set of ADS coilovers on order, being fitted with heavier springs currently. I'll be selling my HOSS 3.0 Fox's. There are so many threads on what rubs and what doesn't, and so many variables that can impact, which caster surely plays a role in. So is more caster always better, or to what limit? How negative is the caster getting on a 2.5" lift and what is the recommended degree of correction?
3. If I need to get UCA's, I want the best possible compromise of function, maintenance and reliability. I've narrowed down to:

Icon Tubular w/Delta Joint Pro - Per Icon support, these have 1* of caster built-in. DJ Pro's are much more expensive to replace (well retrofits are ~200+, but I can't find rebuild kit pricing for Pros), UCA would have to be removed and appear to need special tools. I'm sure most are aware of the sealed uni-ball design and 90* range of motion. Many use these and have great reports here...

JBA Tubular UCA (1-4" lift) - These have 3* of caster built-in and also note 90* range of motion. Their replacement ball joint appear to be much cheaper @ $67 ea. (their design and built in-house) and you can also substitute a Moog in it's place in pinch. They are also much easier to replace per their design via 4xnuts/bolts. I know these are big with Tacos/Tundras. From the alignment specs, this caster should be nearly on the money as is...

I also looked at SPC, but I keep hearing they're designed for alignment and not for offroad. I've read a lot of threads on QC and bushing/bearing issues as well.

 

[Chritaka]

I have been poking around the control arms market, its a giant black hole. I want upper control arms but I am not going to gamble on what brand to buy.

So yes upper control arms factor into the cv axles since they help with the lower arm adjusters. The more you lift the bronco in the front the more you have to space out the bottom arms with the cam adjusters. This is how you get closer to overextend the cv axles and damage the internal ring clip that pokes holes in cv boots.

Issues, you want more caster to help with daily driving and a slightly shorter arm to help with camber. These are not published specs or known numbers. Its just this black hole of everyone making them and people buying them.

@PWillette you want some form of camber correction. Not sure if any makers beside spc and billet arms with adjustable hiems currently do this. Also not sure what amount of correction would be ideal. Hard part would be finding an alignment shop that would be willing to spend the time dialing this in if you get adjustable upper control arms.

Ideally I want a tube upper control arm that uses the factory ball joint(for parts availability) that adds 2 degrees of caster and is 3/8 of an inch shorter. Someone please make this?

Thanks for your input @Snacktime This helps a bit… I also want tubular and I figure more adjustability is not always better for Offroad…more things to go wrong. Plus, you have to find someone that will adjust them properly…

So do you think the JBA’s with 3* caster built in are too much?

 

[Snacktime]

@Chritaka I like them! The issue with adding more caster to the upper control arms moves the tire backwards in the fenderwell. Not enough information out there to say it's if it's to much caster and will cause more rubbing. Driving characteristics should be excellent with that much caster. Should add a little weight to the steering and faster on center steering wheel return.

 

[Chritaka]

FYI - Some questions/responses from JBA:

1. I will going with aftermarket coilovers with reservoirs, will these have enough room to clear the fittings/hoses?
2. Will these clear factory offset Sasquatch wheels/tires or are 0 or negative offset wheels required?
3. Are there any caster degree differences between the 1-4" lift UCAs vs the 4-12" lift UCAs? If not, what are the differences between these?
4. Will you be offering an HD version like for the Toyota's?
5. I do not see extra ball joints available for these UCA's, when will these be available?
6. Can I request powder coating other than red? This color doesn't fit well with my Cactus Gray Bronco Wildtrak.
7. 
   JBA Responses:
   1. We can`t speak to every possible coil over manufacturer and how they design their products but we have many hundreds of customers running all different sorts of coil overs and we haven`t run into any remote coil overs yet that
      our arms won`t work with.
   2. Our arms are designed to clear all factory wheel/tire combinations.
   3. Yes, each is made to correctly compensate for the lift format they`re made to work with and to achieve our
      recommended alignment specs with that lift format. The 1"-4" arms have more compensation than the 4"-12" arms.
      Neither one is a round, arbitrary number.
   4. No, our Bronco arms are already made from the larger, thicker wall tubing of the HD Toyota arms but cost almost $200 pair less.
   5. They`re just missing from the drop down menu, we`ve always had them available. Thank you for pointing that out!
      We`re fixing it now.
   6. They only come in red, sorry. You can topcoat them any color you like. There are plenty of online tutorials and videos
      on painting powder coated items. This gives you the durability and rust resistance of our advanced 5 step
      maritime/military powder coating with your choice of color. It will not void our warranty. The only way we can use this
      very expensive powder coating process without it adding a lot to the price of our arms is to do huge numbers of arms
      at a time, all in one color.
      
      
      
      
      
      

 

[Chritaka]

Question/Response #2:

Regarding #3, please confirm the caster built-in on the 1-4”? For the 4-12”? Your site says 3* in the faq for the 1-4”, but it does not say for the 4-12”.

Regarding #4, but these do not have the same HD gusseting/bracing. What is the DOM tubing size?

Do you offer any discounts or free shipping for Bronco6g members? This would be a good forum to market JBA. I’m happy to post install info and a review there.

Honestly it’s between your UCA and Icon.

JBA Response:
Pertaining to #3, caster, we`re coming at it from a much different perspective. We analyze each platform and the changes that occur to the alignment with different lift ranges and formats (+ caster loss is one of them), we test and target the ideal alignment specs for that platform when equipped with each type of lift and the most common tire size/type customers are most likely to use with it and define our goals. Then we design the arms to perfectly fill that space so that we achieve those goals. We`re not just starting with a factory arm and saying "Hey Cletus, let`s throw a extra 2 or 3 degrees `uh caster at it, that`ll git er dun!". It may be around +3 degrees compared to stock, in some applications it may be more like 4 or closer to 2. It`s not arbitrary, it is what it needs to be for each individual application. The 1" to 4" arms are further from the geometry of the factory arms than the "Stock Geometry" (somewhat a misnomer, they are intended for use in applications that would typically use factory geometry arms but themselves have enhanced geometry) arms. That`s about the best I can explain it. I hope it makes sense. We`ve already done all the homework for you, simply order the arms for the lift you have and you`ll be good to go.


#4, Correct, they do not have the gussets. Experience has shown us that the gussets are overkill for all but actual professional class raced trucks (most race teams build their own A arms) with heavily reinforced frames and cages. While they do look cool they add a huge amount to the complexity, labor and cost to the arms. In all my years at JBA I`ve never seen an arm with broken weld. Even in bad traffic accidents that totaled the truck our arms at most bend a little. They`re covered by our lifetime warranty and we send customers with such trucks a brand new complete pair to put on their replacement truck. At the end of the day our arms are stronger than the factory attachment points on the truck are. It is 1026 DOM A513-5 1.313" OD DOM tubing, made in the USA. .


We only have a military discount, if you served in the US military send proof of service to [email protected]. We offer a 5% military discount.

 

[Chritaka]

Question/Response #3

With your satisfaction guarantee, if these don’t work with my coilovers and suspension setup, I can get a full refund without issue?

JBA response:

That is correct. We`ll work with you to make the combination work, swap arms if necessary etc. and if you`re not 100% happy with the results we`ll send you an RMA, prepaid return shipping label and issue a full refund.

So far I’ve been impressed with their responsiveness. Though, I’m not sure about their answer on caster…

 

[Shifts And Grins Fab]

@PWillette you want some form of camber correction. Not sure if any makers beside spc and billet arms with adjustable hiems currently do this. Also not sure what amount of correction would be ideal. Hard part would be finding an alignment shop that would be willing to spend the time dialing this in if you get adjustable upper control arms.

Ideally I want a tube upper control arm that uses the factory ball joint(for parts availability) that adds 2 degrees of caster and is 3/8 of an inch shorter. Someone please make this?

Since I am making one soon, I'll take this into account.

 

[Shifts And Grins Fab]

Snacktime explained it well. When lifted, the lower control arm is moved out to adjust camber and one side of it is moved out to adjust caster.

Some argue the CV shafts are slightly too short from the factory. I won't comment on that because I need to dive into that more before I have an opinion on it. Now if you move the lower control out to compensate for the lift and get everything into spec, you are essentially pulling that CV out slightly more as well. An upper control arm with adjustments made, especially the adjustments Snacktime mentioned, would allow the alignment to get into spec without having to pull the lower control arm out more and pulling the CV out as well.

I will talk a little about the ADS kit since that is what you have coming. I have had my ADS kit on for a little while and have logged 100s of miles offroad with zero CV bind. Friday night into Saturday morning, four of us with Broncos did 58 miles offroad ranging from high desert through pine trees in the mountains and back down to the desert floor. Two of us were running ADS kits. They both did extremely well. The other Bronco is on Mazzulla upper control arms and Mazzulla lower rear trailing arms. I am currently stock upper control arms and stock upper and lower rear arms. At least one of the others is now budgeting for an ADS kit and control arms. I do feel my upper ball joint will wear faster because of the angles. I am installing some ADS upper control arms (Coming Soon) and I am building some tig welded tubular control arms.

After I installed my ADS kit my camber and toe were both out. My caster stayed in spec.

My before alignment numbers were:
Left Front: Right Front:
Camber: 0.6* 0.8*
Caster: 3.2* 3.4*
Toe: 0.70* 0.71*

My post alignment numbers were:

Left Front: Right Front:
Camber: 0.1* 0.1*
Caster: 3.1* 3.7*
Toe: 0.12* 0.12*

I have tried to get CV bind with no luck. As Snacktime mentioned though, the problem may be more tied to the inner CV shaft being pulled outwards though.

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