Why is off-road lighting so expensive?

[PEGB]

Ya know those hats and shirts we give away are like $15 each. We have them made here on Long Island. So YOUR business helps OUR business and helps ANOTHER small business on Long Island. Basically 5 companies benefit when you buy a fog kit from us, 6 technically

1) The Light Company
2) Us
3) Our Sheet Metal partners
4) Their powder coating partner
5) Out apparal company
6) My wiring guy
7) We can also throw the box company into the mix sine we have to ship the box
8) The shipping company

So basically 8 companies get paid by the time you guys get a fog light kit from us. You can see how those CRAZY PROFITS dissapear fast

This is where my mind goes when I read these discussions or ones about those greedy auto workers wanting more money lol. It always boils down to this for me: Where the F@ck do people think those dollars their fellow blue collar workers want, will go? We’re a nation of born and bred consumers. If we make more money, we f’ing spend it. For better or worse, every one of those dollars benefit whole communities and to some degree our nation. They’re buying cars, televisions, off road lights, groceries, ice cream, you name it. Henry Ford, who advocated for higher wages and shorter work hours wasn’t a humanitarian (as evidenced by his anti-semitism and often brutal anti-union actions). He was a Capitalist. He knew that if people had disposable income and spare time, they would spend both stimulating the economy. And it worked.

I’ve got to stay out of these threads for my own health. My blood pressure skyrockets and trying to encapsulate this topic in a few words on the internet is too difficult. I find it deeply disheartening to watch people attack and denigrate their fellow workers and community members while their real enemies are laughing all the way to the bank, as they always have, regardless of the theoretical economic or political systems they exist under. Jay Gould may be incorrectly credited with this quote, but its truth sadly rings true still today; You could hire half of the middle class to kill the other half. I won’t pretend to be an economic expert or have all the answers like so many on the internet, but I do believe we need to find a way to acknowledge the greed and jealousy that’s so pervasive in our culture and think carefully about the true source of our discontent. I suspect we would learn that our biggest enemy is much closer to us than we realize. I know for me personally, I see him daily in the mirror.

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[85_Ranger4x4]

sounds like you need to make sure your factory headlights are properly aimed especially if you've added weight

They haven't projected very far/wide or even since day one.

 

[Brian_B]

I didn’t read through the entire thread but I’m sure a huge part of it is low volume production : niche industry speciality products. Everything about that makes it more expensive than a run-of-the-mill LED light bulb that gets stamped off an assembly line by the millions and sold by retailers all over.

 

[Lcubed]

They haven't projected very far/wide or even since day one.

That’s why you need to check whether they are properly aimed. Won’t be the first time this was skipped during PDI

 

[Baja Designs]

And perhaps off-road lights are not so expensive given the cost of components for high-output, made in USA, etc., but I did have some sticker shock first joining this forum with my new Bronco. Mind you, I have done decades of off-road, but it has been primarily driving beaches night fishing or beach fun days with friends and family. When surf fishing working up and down beaches at night, you want minimal light so as to not scare fish that feel safe coming close to the shore due to darkness. When you hit a popular area, a lot of driving around with just parking lights on the beach. Using your headlamp to change a lure? Red light and turn away from water. Anyway, I just figured in a competitive free-market economy ditch lights and light bars would not get you into the $500 - $1,000 range. Any quality (and I assume quality is the key here) less expensive alternatives I am missing?

We advise off-road enthusiasts that investing in a race-spec lighting package isn't always necessary. Many individuals believe that achieving optimal lighting requires a hefty budget, but that's not always the case. Our lighting options start at $232.95, providing an excellent solution for casual off-roading. This lighting is often sufficient for most needs, but it also serves as a solid foundation if you plan to expand your lighting setup in the future. Backed by a lifetime warranty, our lighting solutions ensure longevity beyond your current vehicle and the next one after that. Everyone's lighting requirements vary, and whether you need more or less, supporting a brand like Baja Designs guarantees superior performance, quality, and customer service. We have been creating cutting-edge lighting solutions for over 30 years and if you need a light that has been proven in all corners of the world that is what we are here for.


Best,

Brahian Herrera | Forum Sales & Support
Email: [email protected] | Phone: (760) 560-2252 Ext 201

 

[indio22]

That LED that you are using in your home. Can you submerge it in water? Can it withstand freezing/heating constantly? Can you rub it in the dirt without it breaking? The money you spend on lights goes into the circuit boards/leds used AND the housing itself. The seals, the optics, the circuit board, the wiring, the housing, etc..

It's not just an LED connected to a battery hanging there.

The same could be said for the seats in your truck. I could spend $250 on a chair in my home that's just as comfortable IF NOT more comfortable then the one in my Bronco. So why is the Bronco seat so much more? Well it's got sensors in it, heating/cooling features, it's got a safety rating, it might even have an airbag on the side.

So there's a LOT more to a seat in a Bronco then a seat in your home...

Also don't forget the cost of EVERYTHING has increased.

Remember when homes were $5,000? Well I don't but my grandparents would remember. You could buy a home out of the sears catalog for a few grand. Now you can buy a home IF YOU ARE LUCKY for half a million!

Prices go up every single year. Raw materials go up. Labor rates go up. It's not like it used to be.

My point about the home LED bulbs is that initially they were many times more expensive than the incandescent bulbs they were replacing, but these days are much lower in price. LED should no longer carry such a cost premium.

And similar to home bulbs, we use to be able to replace vehicle bulbs at reasonable cost, not having to replace entire light assemblies for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. For example, a headlight bulb replacement for my former 1999 Ford Escort is still only $4.76. And it's not like I had any problem driving with the amount of light it emitted.

No doubt some folks want the absolute best lighting, and are willing to pay for it, I'm glad products are available for them.

But personally I don't need that sort of premium lighting, and would like to see basic lighting costs come down. But that's probably also a function of OEM engineering making funky light designs that don't cater so well to LED light source modular replacement.

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

My point about the home LED bulbs is that initially they were many times more expensive than the incandescent bulbs they were replacing, but these days are much lower in price. LED should no longer carry such a cost premium.

And similar to home bulbs, we use to be able to replace vehicle bulbs at reasonable cost, not having to replace entire light assemblies for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. For example, a headlight bulb replacement for my former 1999 Ford Escort is still only $4.76. And it's not like I had any problem driving with the amount of light it emitted.

No doubt some folks want the absolute best lighting, and are willing to pay for it, I'm glad products are available for them.

But personally I don't need that sort of premium lighting, and would like to see basic lighting costs come down. But that's probably also a function of OEM engineering making funky light designs that don't cater so well to LED light source modular replacement.

It's about quality.

Take LED bulbs like that for example. You can certainly buy some $25 bulbs on amazon that are LED. And we sell our own kit under our CrystaLux brand at $85 a pair. BUT the quality is night/day. Also the pattern is night/day. You get what you pay for.

All LEDs are not made the same.. well KIND OF. At the end of the day MOST lights out there use similar LED chips. A lot of CREE XHP50 bulbs are used in fact. It's a popular bulb. I know Baja Designs utilizes that in some of their products. They may even use the XHP70 bulb. I forget what LED's Diode Dynamics uses, but it could be CREE as well as some other popular brands.

But basically you can buy an LED Headlight bulb, utilizing a CREE XHP50 diode for like $25 on amazon AND you can buy another LED Headlight bulb, utilzing the same XHP50 diode for $85. BUT the circuit board is going to be different. The LED Driver (what powers the unit) is going to be different. There are additional components within the "bulb" that are different and determine how the light pattern lands. There's also different housing components. Plastic, Injection molding, aluminum, copper, etc... Bulbs that utilize copper cost a lot more because the copper can take that heat away better then other materials.

That's why our LED bulbs are $85 compared to cheaper options at $25. You won't find these items in a cheaper bulb

(CrystaLux G11 Series LED Bulb).

Now the same goes into say a Baja Designs light. Ever really see how they are made? It's really neat. They call it "CopperDrive"



It's basically all about thermal management. THAT is honestly where a lot of R&D goes into when it comes to these lights. LED's don't run hot, we all know that. But what DOES run hot are the components inside driving that light. They get VERY hot. And you need to manage that heat.

Cheaper products won't have as much "technology" built into them for thermal management.

So that is where the costs are. It's more then the LED chip. It's the OTHER stuff, know what I mean?

 

[AttackGuy64]

That LED that you are using in your home. Can you submerge it in water? Can it withstand freezing/heating constantly? Can you rub it in the dirt without it breaking? The money you spend on lights goes into the circuit boards/leds used AND the housing itself. The seals, the optics, the circuit board, the wiring, the housing, etc..

It's not just an LED connected to a battery hanging there.

The same could be said for the seats in your truck. I could spend $250 on a chair in my home that's just as comfortable IF NOT more comfortable then the one in my Bronco. So why is the Bronco seat so much more? Well it's got sensors in it, heating/cooling features, it's got a safety rating, it might even have an airbag on the side.

So there's a LOT more to a seat in a Bronco then a seat in your home...

Also don't forget the cost of EVERYTHING has increased.

Remember when homes were $5,000? Well I don't but my grandparents would remember. You could buy a home out of the sears catalog for a few grand. Now you can buy a home IF YOU ARE LUCKY for half a million!

Prices go up every single year. Raw materials go up. Labor rates go up. It's not like it used to be.

Bro, you need to get out of NY. Texas isn't that cheap anymore either, but it's better than NY or California on home prices. Sell your home there and buy a mansion with 20 acres in Texas.

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

Bro, you need to get out of NY. Texas isn't that cheap anymore either, but it's better than NY or California on home prices. Sell your home there and buy a mansion with 20 acres in Texas.

No kidding. We just bought a home 4 years ago AND we just moved into a larger facility less then 2 years ago. So I'm stuck here for another 7 1/2 years at least with my business lease.

 

[userdude]

Bro, you need to get out of NY. Texas isn't that cheap anymore either, but it's better than NY or California on home prices. Sell your home there and buy a mansion with 20 acres in Texas.

Where can you get a mansion on 20 acres for a half million in Texas? Is it where cattle and coyotes outnumber people? Denton, for instance, I think is now averaging over $400k and it's not land of the McMansion (see: Frisco, which is closer to $1mm). Sanger is even higher. My friends just (partially) built a 3500 sq ft home in Bolivar that was $700k on only 11.4 acres, and that was before inflation.

 

[AttackGuy64]

No kidding. We just bought a home 4 years ago AND we just moved into a larger facility less then 2 years ago. So I'm stuck here for another 7 1/2 years at least with my business lease.

Is it true that NY instituted a departure tax on all businesses? Something like 30% of net worth? I heard that and it made me shudder.

 

[dejones64]

I thought prices on lights were crazy and told myself, I don't really need to spend that. Lights were not a priority for my build. That is until I hit a deer, 1 month after getting my Bronco. Lights moved to the top of my list. I buyed-once-cried-once, to light up all areas of the ditches and road, 180 degrees a-pillar to a-pillar.

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

Is it true that NY instituted a departure tax on all businesses? Something like 30% of net worth? I heard that and it made me shudder.

Never heard of that. Not sure how a state can tax someone for leaving. Like, is that a line-item on your tax report "did you have a business in 2022 but left for another state where you can save money, if so check this box"

My buddy moved his firearm manufacturing out of NYS to FL (they still do SOME here in NY though but it's too expensive). Even Remington left NY and they've been here forever.

even if we sell (and get a lot more then we paid) where am I going to get the interest rate I have now. I bought at a great time (for loans anyway).

 

[AttackGuy64]

Where can you get a mansion on 20 acres for a half million in Texas? Is it where cattle and coyotes outnumber people? Denton, for instance, I think is now averaging over $400k and it's not land of the McMansion (see: Frisco, which is closer to $1mm). Sanger is even higher. My friends just built a home in Bolivar that was $700k on only 11.4 acres, and that was before inflation.

I may have overstated my case a bit, but I live in Krum and understand the prices completely. I bought a house in a middle class neighborhood in 2020 for a hair under $300k, today I could sell it for over $400. My wife sold her 3000 sqft home in Benjamin (sp) on 20 acres for $335k in 2019. Yes, the coyotes outnumber the people, but some people like open spaces and the neighbors not peeking through your windows. We used to hear cars on her road at night and grab weapons. That's how few people lived out there.

I bought land in the middle of the San Juan mountains in Colorado for retirement. No people, no problem. Town is 30 minutes away.

 

[AttackGuy64]

Never heard of that. Not sure how a state can tax someone for leaving. Like, is that a line-item on your tax report "did you have a business in 2022 but left for another state where you can save money, if so check this box"

My buddy moved his firearm manufacturing out of NYS to FL (they still do SOME here in NY though but it's too expensive). Even Remington left NY and they've been here forever.

even if we sell (and get a lot more then we paid) where am I going to get the interest rate I have now. I bought at a great time (for loans anyway).

Sorry, I misread. New Jersey has a 9% exit tax. California has the big one.

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