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[Toyhoarder]

The “enthusiasts” include over landing fans and not just “extreme” rock crawlers.
Serious question that I know no one will truly be able to answer. What % of rubicon owners actually live within a reasonable (1 hour or less) distance from a trail that requires a Rubicon?

Anybody that lives where there is snow or mud benefits from the ability to lock the diffs. Sure an IFS rig can be fully locked but it will never be as reliable as having two stick axles, especially when you start modding a vehicle. 99% of my use won’t require the articulation of a SFA, but I want the durability and traction to take me down a frozen rutted hill in the morning to chase elk and back up through the mud in the afternoon. Having a rig that I can vacation to Moab or the Rubicon is just icing on the cake for me.

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[JimmyDean]

Not so sure about that. Jeeps would certainly be popular and maybe if you are only looking at the USA but I think Toyotas are probably more popular globally: 4runner, Tacoma's, land cruisers (70 series and Prada). They can hold more gear and are more reliable than a wrangler

You may want to take a look at some overlanders in places such as Africa. Those who can get their hands on a wrangler, because they aren't readily available there yet (but increasing now, with a few dealerships opening in South Africa and such). Having the 4 door makes it a lot more popular than it was previously due to the capacity issue of the 2dr very short wheel base. the most popular simply by number would be the range rover, followed by the Yota's for overlanding (and the taco and 4runner do a damn fine job of overlanding, definitely both of those are in the top 5, maybe the ranger raptor and bronco can knock em both out though).

 

[JimmyDean]

Anybody that lives where there is snow or mud benefits from the ability to lock the diffs. Sure an IFS rig can be fully locked but it will never be as reliable as having two stick axles, especially when you start modding a vehicle. 99% of my use won’t require the articulation of a SFA, but I want the durability and traction to take me down a frozen rutted hill in the morning to chase elk and back up through the mud in the afternoon. Having a rig that I can vacation to Moab or the Rubicon is just icing on the cake for me.

this is my thing. I don't have rocks in south Louisiana. what I have is sticky Louisiana gumbo and slicker than owl shit red clay. And you need wide tires on the clay and tall tires in the mud and power to make it through, and that combo absolutely destroys CV axles.

 

[Cypher]

The “enthusiasts” include over landing fans and not just “extreme” rock crawlers.
Serious question that I know no one will truly be able to answer. What % of rubicon owners actually live within a reasonable (1 hour or less) distance from a trail that requires a Rubicon?

If you live in AZ, CO, UT, NV, or CA I would,say a good majority are within distance of trails that a Rubicon (even heavily modified Rubicon) is required. That said there are also just as many trails that a Raptor would be better on. I don't think it is a question of "requiring" a Rubicon, it is a question of being in an environment that leads itself to off-road driving and people have an interest on doing so. Phoenix is a huge area with a Lot of people. A majority do not need a Rubicon as they do not do activities that require one. The real trick is getting those people interested in a vehicle that "could" go off-road should they desire like Jeep does so well even if the person will never do so.

 

[Paint]

In for fixed roof.

My Wrangler's top has been off like 2 or 3 times in 25 years. Usually so I can drop the windshield to remove the dash.

 

[JimmyDean]

i think the only off-road vehicle that will sell well is as follows:

1. Naturally aspirated V6 base engine - Nah man, NA V8. or TT V6

2. crank and manual window options - Don't think this will or can be an option with the frameless windows, but I can understand the desire for them. a messed up window motor is one of the issues I have on my 250 drawing too much current, my headlights dim when I use the windows...

3. Solid front and rear axles - Yes

4. Round, 7” headlights - only care about round headlights to the extent of a throwback to the EB

5. Removable roof that’s heavier than shit - something lighter than my FSB top which I can put on/take off myself. But I'll likely put a pulley system under my carport to take it off regardless if it is a one-piece like the old styles

6. An interior that can be hosed out - again, yes. I rhinolined the interior of my 82, works out well for the mud.

7. Retro styling to a T making it indistinguishable from prior generations to the untrained eye - well, that's just silly. How will you know I spent all this money on a new vehicle if it looks exactly like some 50 year old one?

8. A Jeep logo; wait - Yup, Jeep logo right under the tires as I crush it.

Oh yeah everyone bitching and complaining that the Bronco won’t be an exact copy of a Jeep but with a Ford badge. That’s not what we’re getting. If that’s what you really want I’m sure you could get the dealership to put some on your Jeep for a small fee or you can even get some gorilla glue and do it yourself. - I don't want a copy of the jeep but with a Ford logo. I want something better. I want Ford power, Ford reliability. I want built Ford Tough. If they can come out with an IFS that is as capable and stronger and as easy to work with, that works for me. (my complaint is that from what we have seen, that is not what we are getting). I want cleaner lines than the Jeep, and more interior room, things that the EBs had over the Jeep (along with better axles and stronger engine, the 302 vs the 305)

 

[Toyhoarder]

All the SFA haters have me wondering... How is it that the Super Duty with its archaic front axle, that almost never sees the rocks, is able to outsell the GM HDs by such a large margin? Especially with the Dmax/Allison having such a better reputation than the Powerstroke.

 

[Paint]

All the SFA haters have me wondering... How is it that the Super Duty with its archaic front axle, that almost never sees the rocks, is able to outsell the GM HDs by such a large margin? Especially with the Dmax/Allison having such a better reputation than the Powerstroke.

Probably because it looks fantastic and GM trucks look like a product of JD Power's EVERYBODY GETS A TROPHY Program.

 

[Jook13]

Hello from Prescott AZ. I've been reading this site for the past few days and following the bronco news for a while now.

I enjoy the banter of these threads, wanted to put in my 2 cents. I see the current closest competitor to the Wrangler being the 4 runner. The biggest difference I see in my town is a huge percentage of the Wrangler are lifted with 37-40 inch tires and most Toyotas are close to stock. There Wrangler outsells the 4 runner by about double, and I really do think it's the ease of modding the SFA that adds to the popularity, along with the huge wheel wells. Capability aside, a lot of people like that mini monster truck look. To fit 40 inch tires on a 4 runner, you need a sawzall. I see the bronco in the same boat.

I'm not here to dis the new bronco pictures, I'm actually still excited and expect some more pleasant surprises. I do think every other car manufacturer is misguided as to why the Wrangler is so popular though.
Then again, I'm looking at this through the lenses of my small town.

 

[csj]

Irrelevant comparison, different market, different variables.

 

[Paint]

The main competition for my dollars is the 4Runner, not the Wrangler.

 

[Toyhoarder]

Oh yeah everyone bitching and complaining that the Bronco won’t be an exact copy of a Jeep but with a Ford badge. That’s not what we’re getting. If that’s what you really want I’m sure you could get the dealership to put some on your Jeep for a small fee or you can even get some gorilla glue and do it yourself.

I don’t want a rebadged Jeep. I want a 2021 version of my 1968 Ford Bronco. You know the vehicle that is all over commercials and movie screens? The vehicle that is in such high demand that Ford has decided to resurrect it. I want the new Bronco to be better than Jeep in the same ways it was originally- more power and more room. Jeep has done an excellent job of modernizing the wrangler without compromising on its capabilities. Why does Ford have to compromise?

 

[JimmyDean]

Irrelevant comparison, different market, different variables.

talking about the success of the 250 over the 2500 with keeping the SFA?

Is it a different variable though? It is about usefulness, ruggedness, and strength. Which are all of the reasons that we want one in the Bronco....Because the SFA is stronger than the IFS. It is also cheaper to manufacturer and build.

 

[Toyhoarder]

Irrelevant comparison, different market, different variables.

How is it irrelevant? Pickups are mostly used on pavement, even more so than Jeeps. If the masses are satisfied with a rougher riding solid axle when there is an IFS alternative, with a more reputable power plant, then why wouldn’t the same thing apply to the Bronco and Wrangler? Maybe the Wrangler with its inferior street capabilities and crappy power plants will remain the king.

 

[Jake_zx2]

The "go away if you don't agree with me" arguments are as convincing as ever.

It’s not “go away if you don’t agree”, it’s “find a better fucking place to bitch and moan if that’s all you’re ever going to do”

Clearly you didn't bother to read it because I said the same thing.

I know you're desperate to disagree with everything I say and try to discredit me, because you want to think of me as "the enemy" or your nemesiss or whatever, but come on, try harder.

Except we’re not saying the same thing. At all. You’re trying to say that enthusiasts drive the market, I’m telling you you’re dead wrong. If that were the case, people wouldn’t constantly be asking me if my Mustang is broken because it’s so loud

I know you’re trying really hard to validate yourself with the smear tactics here, but it isn’t working. I’m sure we’re all smart enough to see through your bullshit... well, except maybe the other Neanderthals who think the Bronco will fail without SFA

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