B&O stereo "upgrade" (save some money...)

[broncorik]

I know this might not be the popular opinion regarding upgrading the B&O system but here goes. I drank the Kool-Aid wanting to get more performance out of my B&O system so I went out and bought all new speakers, including a sub, pigtail adapters (so I didn't have to butcher my OEM harness), an amp, and some sound deadener. It was tough to decide which speakers to get because it seems like for every member that loves one speaker in a certain position there was another member that said that that's not the speaker to get for that position...but I went with CS speakers for the three in the dash and the two kick panels, and then Focals for the pods. For the sub, I went with a kicker 8-in DVC and a Kicker 500.1 amp.

For context, with my OEM system when I hit about 12 on the volume it was plenty loud enough for me. With the new system, I can go all the way to 25 but it's not as loud as it was on 12 with my original speakers. The sub is a different story altogether because I am taking a high level signal and amplifying it separately from the other speakers.

I was having some trouble with the sub because even though I wired it correctly and in phase I was getting very little sound out of it. I have sent sent the amp back and I'm waiting for the new one which should arrive soon. In the meantime, I had called Sounds Good Stereo. He had explained to me that many people make the mistake of running out and buying all new speakers and then noticing only a marginal if any improvement (and in my case, a pretty significant loss of volume at comparative levels between old speakers and new speakers). That is typical, because when you go with a higher performing speaker you generally get more clarity and truer reproduction of sound but at the expense of taking more watts to drive that particular speaker. Our factory speakers, even though they seem on the budget side with their paper cones and lightweight materials, were meant to match with our low-brow amp that we're stuck with unless we want to spend another 800 bucks to buy an adapter and then buy another amp to replace that with and possibly a DSP if we want really good sound. I can guarantee that anybody who swaps out the 3-speakers the kick speakers and the pod speakers with higher end speakers is more than likely going to experience the same thing I have...having a system that doesn't get nearly as loud. I understand that a true sound afficionado would definitely want the higher-end speakers because of the more accurate sound reproduction and clarity, but at the same time those folks would probably also start with a proper amp. Most of us especially those who take our tops off are going to simply just want something loud enough to be able to hear over the road noise and the brick-shaped aerodynamics. That said, I suggest that anybody who's thinking of swapping out all their speakers holds off on that and instead focuses on just addressing the sub and an amp to power it. It is the biggest bang for the buck so to speak, and the thing that is missing most from the B&O system.

Thanks to the lengthy conversation I had with the stereo guy, I also now understand that anyone who uses the four wires that feed the factory sub are going to experience some issues. Specifically, the B&O system above volume 14 is meant to "roll off" the bass so as not to harm the factory would be speaker. The kicker key amp can correct certain signals that come to the amplifier but it cannot make up for the roll-off characteristics of the B&O system. The stereo person told me that above volume 14 then the sub will constantly be fighting itself to compensate for the roll-off. The solution was to buy a harness from that stereo guy that plugs directly into our factory amp and then the other end plugs back into the OEM harness and then the shop solders on an additional pigtail that connects directly to the kicker amp. By doing so, instead of using the four wires that are subject to the roll-off effect, this setup takes signals directly from the kick panel speakers. The kick pedal speakers are high level, so you simply plug that pigtail in from the new harness and then the amp gets a high level signal...and that high level signal triggers the amp so you don't need to run a remote wire to turn the amp on. Although a high level signal is typically not the most desirable signal, the kicker amp has a switch for running higher low inputs and then it has a key correction feature so most people won't even notice.

The moral of my story is I'm hoping to save people $500 or more on speakers and convince them that spending $300 on the amp and another 80 bucks on the sub and possibly $100 for the custom harness is the best way to get pretty decent performance out of the B&O system without going overboard and having to spend $1,500 to $2,000 to bypass the woefully inadequate OEM amp.

Even then, It is important to remember that we are also limited by the shape of the interior of our vehicle. The stereo guy had something funny to share...he said if a customer buys a $20,000 speaker and puts it in a bathroom and listens to it, that customer is probably going to come back and complain that the speaker sounds like it's in a bathroom...meaning there's only so much we can do with what we have to work with even if we go overboard with speakers and amps and DSPs. I personally am going to yank out the 3 dash speakers and the two kicks and put the OEM speakers back in for now...and get my loud (unclean) music back.

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[kingsingh14]

I know this might not be the popular opinion regarding upgrading the B&O system but here goes. I drank the Kool-Aid wanting to get more performance out of my B&O system so I went out and bought all new speakers, including a sub, pigtail adapters (so I didn't have to butcher my OEM harness), an amp, and some sound deadener. It was tough to decide which speakers to get because it seems like for every member that loves one speaker in a certain position there was another member that said that that's not the speaker to get for that position...but I went with CS speakers for the three in the dash and the two kick panels, and then Focals for the pods. For the sub, I went with a kicker 8-in DVC and a Kicker 500.1 amp.

For context, with my OEM system when I hit about 12 on the volume it was plenty loud enough for me. With the new system, I can go all the way to 25 but it's not as loud as it was on 12 with my original speakers. The sub is a different story altogether because I am taking a high level signal and amplifying it separately from the other speakers.

I was having some trouble with the sub because even though I wired it correctly and in phase I was getting very little sound out of it. I have sent sent the amp back and I'm waiting for the new one which should arrive soon. In the meantime, I had called Sounds Good Stereo. He had explained to me that many people make the mistake of running out and buying all new speakers and then noticing only a marginal if any improvement (and in my case, a pretty significant loss of volume at comparative levels between old speakers and new speakers). That is typical, because when you go with a higher performing speaker you generally get more clarity and truer reproduction of sound but at the expense of taking more watts to drive that particular speaker. Our factory speakers, even though they seem on the budget side with their paper cones and lightweight materials, were meant to match with our low-brow amp that we're stuck with unless we want to spend another 800 bucks to buy an adapter and then by another amp to replace that with and possibly a DSP if we want really good sound. I can guarantee that anybody who swaps out the 3-speakers the kick speakers and the pod speakers with higher end speakers is more than likely going to experience the same thing I have...having a system that doesn't get nearly as loud. I understand that a true sound afficionado would definitely want the higher-end speakers because of the more accurate sound reproduction and clarity, but at the same time those folks would probably also start with a proper amp. Most of us especially those who take our tops off are going to simply just want something loud enough to be able to hear over the road noise and the brick-shaped aerodynamics. That said, I suggest that anybody who's thinking of swapping out all their speakers holds off on that and instead focuses on just addressing the sub and an amp to power it. It is the biggest bang for the buck so to speak, and the thing that is missing most from the B&O system.

Thanks to the lengthy conversation I had with the stereo guy, I also now understand that anyone who uses the four wires that feed the factory sub are going to experience some issues. Specifically, the beetle system above volume 14 is meant to "roll off" the bass so as not to harm the factory would be speaker. The kicker key amp can correct certain signals that come to the amplifier but it cannot make up for the roll-off characteristics of the B&O system. The stereo person told me that above volume 14 then the sub will constantly be fighting itself to compensate for the roll-off. The solution was to buy a harness from that stereo guy that plugs directly into our factory amp and then the other end plugs back into the OEM harness and then the shop solders on an additional pigtail that connects directly to the kicker amp. By doing so, instead of using the four wires that are subject to the roll-off effect, this setup takes signals directly from the kick panel speakers. The kick pedal speakers are high level, so you simply plug that pigtail in from the new harness and then the amp gets a high level signal...and that high level signal triggers the amp so you don't need to run a remote wire to turn the amp on. Although a high level signal is typically not the most desirable signal, the kicker amp has a switch for running higher low inputs and then it has a key correction feature so most people won't even notice.

The moral of my story is I'm hoping to save people $500 or more on speakers and convince them that spending $300 on the amp and another 80 bucks on the sub and possibly $100 for the custom harness is the best way to get pretty decent performance out of the B&O system without going overboard and having to spend $1,500 to $2,000 to bypass the woefully inadequate OEM amp.

Even then, It is important to remember that we are also limited by the shape of the interior of our vehicle. The stereo guy had something funny to share...he said if a customer buys a $20,000 speaker and puts it in a bathroom and listens to it, that customer is probably going to come back and complain that the speaker sounds like it's in a bathroom...meaning there's only so much we can do with what we have to work with even if we go overboard with speakers and amps and DSPs. I personally am going to yank out the 3 dash speakers and the two kicks and put the OEM speakers back in for now...and get my loud (unclean) music back.

is there any link to that harness? I kind of already installed the subwoofer with a kicker key and spent a lot of time doing so, but I am still interested hahaha

 

[broncorik]

The harness itself is readily available even on Amazon... But when you buy only the harness then you would have to cut and splice wires to the pigtail on the kicker. My soldering skills are not all that fantastic, and I didn't want to take any chances...so if you tell the folks at sounds good stereo that you would like that harness with the pigtail attached specifically for the kicker they will do it for you and charge you a hundred bucks total. I ordered mine a couple days ago and it's supposed to be here tomorrow. Unlike many places, the guys that sounds good actually pick up the phone...call them and tell them you need one of these:

While you're on the phone with them If you have any questions whatsoever about any modifications that you could or should do to your system they will be more than happy to tell you what the ramifications of whatever you choose might be. They also sell the interface that I would need to bypass the stupid B&O factory amp, but at 800 bucks and then eating it for the additional cost of buying a decent DSP unit and then an amp would make me a little anxious. The harness and a decent sub seem to be the best possible affordable solution for now. If you do decide to go big and buy that interface, then this harness would be a moot point because that converter that they sell has sub woofer RCA outs on it (but then you ideally would need to get a dedicated subwoofer app in addition to the amp for the other speakers).

If you're going to install the kicker 8-in dual voice coil speaker in your factory enclosure you could either pry that plastic ring off or you could just use a Dremel and cut notches so it clears the OEM housing. I went with the Dremel route, but then I was also bummed to find that in order to use the factory for screw holes which have reinforcements on the back side you need to notch the 8-in sub in four places so that you could just put the speaker in place and use the factory screw mounts. It took some drilling and then filing, but now it drops in. I also ground down the four raised surfaces where the screw holes are which were intended to allow the factory speaker to set in place and for the thick gasket to seat properly. With a kicker speaker, those four raised sections would have made an air gap... And there's also a protrusion at the bottom of the housing that's meant to line up with the factory ring, and that also has to be ground off. I then use polyfill batting instead of just the bulk stuff so that I could use headliner adhesive to stick it to the sides of the enclosure to avoid risking any of the polyfill getting sucked into the speaker basket.

 

[Panzer948]

Wow, all I can say is you confirmed what I was thinking soon after I replaced all my speakers in my B&O System. It was a little bit of an improvement with top on but I felt with top (and doors off) at hwy speeds, I can't hear a thing and have been lowly disappointed. Sadly, I was so excited to be replacing my cheap looking factory speakers that I threw them out, thinking I would never need them again. This makes me regret that. But why not just do all you mentioned above and still keep the speaker upgrades you have? Seems it will still be the better deal.

 

[broncorik]

You read my mind...I just swapped back minutes ago and it sounds better than it did...even more bass (because I suspect that the factory "amp" is meant specifically to drive mid-base and not coax speakers in the kick positions...and the kick is designed to work collaboratively with the outer dash speakers). I know my upgraded speakers are more capable, but without a decent signal I would never have been able to actually enjoy them. The issue on a 2-door is lack of space to run the additional DSP and amp(s). The interface until would live where the OEM crappy amp lived, and other than that there is not a lot of room. I try to avoid underseat locations for anything electrical, so that leaves very little real estate for much of anything else.

I did figure out that the control for fading plays an even bigger role with better speakers...because unless you slide it all the way to direct more to the better front speakers they will be much quieter than before (whereas leaving the fader close to the middle with OEM speakers yields more volume).

 

[Panzer948]

You read my mind...I just swapped back minutes ago and it sounds better than it did...even more bass (because I suspect that the factory "amp" is meant specifically to drive mid-base and not coax speakers in the kick positions...and the kick is designed to work collaboratively with the outer dash speakers). I know my upgraded speakers are more capable, but without a decent signal I would never have been able to actually enjoy them. The issue on a 2-door is lack of space to run the additional DSP and amp(s). The interface until would live where the OEM crappy amp lived, and other than that there is not a lot of room. I try to avoid underseat locations for anything electrical, so that leaves very little real estate for much of anything else.

I did figure out that the control for fading plays an even bigger role with better speakers...because unless you slide it all the way to direct more to the better front speakers they will be much quieter than before (whereas leaving the fader close to the middle with OEM speakers yields more volume).

Interesting about your tip on the fader. I admit, I haven't played with it much since I replaced the speakers. I will give that a try later today when I drive it like it was meant to be driven (with the top down .

BTW, I just commented on another thread about the B&O debate being good or not. I indicated your comments above about factory speakers might be the better choice if going topless. I may add a link to this thread as well. I think a lot of people must be commenting on the B&O that never take their tops off, or atleast for extended trips at freeway speeds.

 

[broncorik]

Interesting about your tip on the fader. I admit, I haven't played with it much since I replaced the speakers. I will give that a try later today when I drive it like it was meant to be driven (with the top down .

BTW, I just commented on another thread about the B&O debate being good or not. I indicated your comments above about factory speakers might be the better choice if going topless. I may add a link to this thread as well. I think a lot of people must be commenting on the B&O that never take their tops off, or atleast for extended trips at freeway speeds.

I'm also not enough of an audio person to have all the equipment to measure specific peaks and valleys or all that stuff...I primarily listen to things like Journey and Ratt and Alice in Chains and other music that sounds distorted to begin with. I can tell when something sounds like s***, and I can also tell him when it's not loud enough to actually be able to enjoy it... and for sure with my upgraded speakers it didn't play loud enough for me to enjoy it. If you have the upgraded speakers then now slide the fade or all the way to the front and that might be the answer. I didn't even think about that hack until I had already pulled all my new speakers out put the old ones back in and then notice the huge difference that that slider actually has on our cheapo systems. Sliding into the front may just give you enough boost to get the sound you're looking for, and the little pods in the back don't do much of anything because the signal that goes back there is directly off the head unit anyways so zero amplification.

I can share that The conversation I had with the guy from sounds good stereo was pretty informative... He was aware of everything I brought to the table in terms of my concerns, and his responses about what would happen if I just swapped out speakers willy-nilly or did some of the other suggestions people in the forum swear by were right on the money. I was also blown away that he under promised...he said that it would take them probably till the end of the week or the beginning of next week to make the harness I requested but then lo and behold it shipped the next day. Classy operation! They are now making things to adapt other types of speakers to the Bronco such as in the left and right corners of the dash something for a separate mid and tweeter, and then the woofer could go in the kick panel and with a crossover and an amp that would sound the way it's supposed to. I think in a way the people that have the non B&O systems are probably ahead of the game because they can already just get an adapter and go with an amp instead of having to do what the B&O folks have to do and use that $800 translation device just so they could use an amp. On the flip side, those of us with B&O do have an adequate box for bass and with 15 or 20 minutes and a Dremel the insulation is not a big deal. I don't want to give up a bunch of interior space with a giant down firing woofer or strap a woofer onto my tailgate or any of that stuff. Let me know if sliding the fader all the way forward works!

 

[Panzer948]

I'm also not enough of an audio person to have all the equipment to measure specific peaks and valleys or all that stuff...I primarily listen to things like Journey and Ratt and Alice in Chains and other music that sounds distorted to begin with. I can tell when something sounds like s***, and I can also tell him when it's not loud enough to actually be able to enjoy it... and for sure with my upgraded speakers it didn't play loud enough for me to enjoy it. If you have the upgraded speakers then now slide the fade or all the way to the front and that might be the answer. I didn't even think about that hack until I had already pulled all my new speakers out put the old ones back in and then notice the huge difference that that slider actually has on our cheapo systems. Sliding into the front may just give you enough boost to get the sound you're looking for, and the little pods in the back don't do much of anything because the signal that goes back there is directly off the head unit anyways so zero amplification.

I can share that The conversation I had with the guy from sounds good stereo was pretty informative... He was aware of everything I brought to the table in terms of my concerns, and his responses about what would happen if I just swapped out speakers willy-nilly or did some of the other suggestions people in the forum swear by were right on the money. I was also blown away that he under promised...he said that it would take them probably till the end of the week or the beginning of next week to make the harness I requested but then lo and behold it shipped the next day. Classy operation! They are now making things to adapt other types of speakers to the Bronco such as in the left and right corners of the dash something for a separate mid and tweeter, and then the woofer could go in the kick panel and with a crossover and an amp that would sound the way it's supposed to. I think in a way the people that have the non B&O systems are probably ahead of the game because they can already just get an adapter and go with an amp instead of having to do what the B&O folks have to do and use that $800 translation device just so they could use an amp. On the flip side, those of us with B&O do have an adequate box for bass and with 15 or 20 minutes and a Dremel the insulation is not a big deal. I don't want to give up a bunch of interior space with a giant down firing woofer or strap a woofer onto my tailgate or any of that stuff. Let me know if sliding the fader all the way forward works!

Thanks will try it tonight. I checked out Sounds good stereo and saw that $800 translation device. I may think about getting it as I have an older AMP from another car that I can add with it. I am glad to hear they are helpful. I sent them a question asking them if I get that device, what else would they recommend as far as subwoofer, amps, harnesses, etc. but while trying to keep my aftermarket speakers. But.... maybe I should just call them like you did!

 

[Hossfire]

You will get a better result by using an A2B processor and using aftermarket amps and a dsp for the front speakers (and a sub amp for the aftermarket sub.)

The thing is, the B&O amp be adequate to drive efficient aftermarket front speakers. Might as well try before ploughing money around to the other equipment.

 

[broncorik]

I did try...with my B&O amp and the 7 speakers I added (CS 4" x3 CS 6.5" x 2 and Focal 4" x2) my system was no longer nearly as loud as it was prior to the swap. I could have compensated slightly by putting the slider control all the way to the front, but because there was such a noticeable difference (specifically a decline in volume) I swapped everything back. I am running an 8-in Kicker for the rear (with an amp) and although it was initially patched into the four wires that fed the OEM sub tomorrow I will get my harness that will allow me to plug it into the outputs from the kicks.

 

[Chritaka]

You will get a better result by using an A2B processor and using aftermarket amps and a dsp for the front speakers (and a sub amp for the aftermarket sub.)

The thing is, the B&O amp be adequate to drive efficient aftermarket front speakers. Might as well try before ploughing money around to the other equipment.

I agree on the sensitivity.

I just replaced my corner dash with Hertz CX100’s @ 92 spl db w/300hz inline filters, kicks with Hertz C 165 L’s @ 91 spl db and added Mabett pods with Hertz CX165’s @ 93 spl db. The sensitivity is key to getting more out of the B&O amp. If someone goes with speakers that have a lower sensitivity, then yes they’re going to need more power to reach the same or louder volumes. And with adding more power to the OEM speakers, they’ll never have the accuracy and fidelity of something like Hertz. However, if someone just wants louder…

I did killmat 100mil in kicks and pods with polyfill. It’s a night and day difference and I can blast down the highway now with the top down. The Hertz Cento line sound like separates, and have positional tweeters, they’re so good… The dash and upgraded pods made a huge difference. The kicks are tighter and more accurate, less boomy, but not as huge of an improvement. I also tried silicone baffles in the kicks, but they killed the bass and I removed. I added the kilmat and tried with and without poly, but they sounded best with some very loosely packed poly in the kicks.

Sub upgrade is next…

 

[broncorik]

I agree on the sensitivity.

I just replaced my corner dash with Hertz CX100’s @ 92 spl db w/300hz inline filters, kicks with Hertz C 165 L’s @ 91 spl db and added Mabett pods with Hertz CX165’s @ 93 spl db. The sensitivity is key to getting more out of the B&O amp. If someone goes with speakers that have a lower sensitivity, then yes they’re going to need more power to reach the same or louder volumes. And with adding more power to the OEM speakers, they’ll never have the accuracy and fidelity of something like Hertz. However, if someone just wants louder…

I did killmat 100mil in kicks and pods with polyfill. It’s a night and day difference and I can blast down the highway now with the top down. The Hertz Cento line sound like separates, and have positional tweeters, they’re so good… The dash and upgraded pods made a huge difference. The kicks are tighter and more accurate, less boomy, but not as huge of an improvement. I also tried silicone baffles in the kicks, but they killed the bass and I removed. I added the kilmat and tried with and without poly, but they sounded best with some very loosely packed poly in the kicks.

Sub upgrade is next…

I just got my harness for the sub from Sounds Good...it plugs directly into the B&O amp, then the OEM plugs into it. There is a pigtail that then plugs directly into the Kicker 500.1. I highly recommend getting the harness, and if you don't prefer the Kicker amp then go with whatever you want and the Sounds Good folks can create a harness plug for that particular amp. The key is having the signal for the amp come from the kick panel speakers, NOT the OEM plug that feeds your OEM sub. That signal is wonky because it rolls off after volume 14. When I tried to set my amp up before I knew that, I had all kinds of issues. When I used the harness they sent me, the amp programmed as it was supposed to the first try. You can certainly skip the harness and tap into your current one, but I wanted to keep my harness intact. I also recommed the kicker 8 inch DVC speaker because it "almost" fits the OEM sub housing. Another member chose to grind down his housing to fit the speaker, but I went with drilling/round filing 4 new slots from the outside edge of the speaker housing and used a Dremel to trim the plastic surround on the speaker to fit the OEM housing. I then ground down the 4 slightly raised areas by each hole for the mount screws in the OEM housing and ground off the locating tab at the bottom of the OEM housing. Finally, Ingoumd off about 1/2" of the ribbing inside the housing to clear the much bigger speaker magnet. Now the speaker fits like a glove. You could use a smaller speaker, but then you'd need an adapter. The 8 inch kicker is good because the gasket actually matches/seals to the OEM housing. I skipped polyfill/batting (even though I initially tried it) because I realized the OEM housing is ported.

 

[Panzer948]

I just got my harness for the sub from Sounds Good...it plugs directly into the B&O amp, then the OEM plugs into it. There is a pigtail that then plugs directly into the Kicker 500.1. I highly recommend getting the harness, and if you don't prefer the Kicker amp then go with whatever you want and the Sounds Good folks can create a harness plug for that particular amp. The key is having the signal for the amp come from the kick panel speakers, NOT the OEM plug that feeds your OEM sub. That signal is wonky because it rolls off after volume 14. When I tried to set my amp up before I knew that, I had all kinds of issues. When I used the harness they sent me, the amp programmed as it was supposed to the first try. You can certainly skip the harness and tap into your current one, but I wanted to keep my harness intact. I also recommed the kicker 8 inch DVC speaker because it "almost" fits the OEM sub housing. Another member chose to grind down his housing to fit the speaker, but I went with drilling/round filing 4 new slots from the outside edge of the speaker housing and used a Dremel to trim the plastic surround on the speaker to fit the OEM housing. I then ground down the 4 slightly raised areas by each hole for the mount screws in the OEM housing and ground off the locating tab at the bottom of the OEM housing. Finally, Ingoumd off about 1/2" of the ribbing inside the housing to clear the much bigger speaker magnet. Now the speaker fits like a glove. You could use a smaller speaker, but then you'd need an adapter. The 8 inch kicker is good because the gasket actually matches/seals to the OEM housing. I skipped polyfill/batting (even though I initially tried it) because I realized the OEM housing is ported.

Good advice. Now if I can just get sounds good to respond to my inquiry. Do you recommend someone there I talk too? I may duplicate what you got since you have shown that it works (and I too have a dremel too

 

[Altitude]

Crutchfield offers good information on the sensitivity of speakers and how they can affect how loud they are (posted below) I'm not certain of what the sensitivity of the factory speakers are, but I'm guessing they are very high (100 or so). If they factory units are 100 and the Kicker's you put in are 90, you are essentially losing 10dbs at the same volume on the radio knob. Aftermarket amps or speakers with higher sensitivity (if staying with the stock amp) will be the way to address these issues.


Sensitivity
A sensitivity rating tells you how effectively a speaker converts power (watts) into volume (decibels). The higher the rating, the louder your speakers will play with a given amount of amplifier power. Sensitivity is often measured by driving a speaker with one watt and measuring the loudness in decibels at one meter. Alternatively, you may see sensitivity measured by driving a speaker with 2.83 volts at one meter.

The chart below illustrates that a few dB in sensitivity can make a big difference (this example uses the one watt at one meter measurement):

Speaker	Sensitivity rating	Power needed to produce a given volume
Speaker A	85 dB​	100 watts​
Speaker B	88 dB​	50 watts​
Speaker C	91 dB​	25 watts​

A speaker with a sensitivity rating that's 3 dB higher than another speaker's only needs half as much power to deliver the same amount of sound.

 

[broncorik]

Good advice. Now if I can just get sounds good to respond to my inquiry. Do you recommend someone there I talk too? I may duplicate what you got since you have shown that it works (and I too have a dremel too

I called the main number and oddly enough someone answered (even at around 5pm PST...and they are three hours ahead, I believe).

615.610.1413

I think there are only 2 or 3 guys that run the entire show...and they all know exactly what that harness is. If you get a chance to talk to any of them, they can answer just about anything you throw at them.

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