HOSS 3.0 severe duty STEERING RACK and TIE RODS ...Ford Performance M-3200-WT

[flip]

Here's a list of short racks. The replacement suffix is next to the old number.

Long racks.

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[mpeugeot]

how does the steering system throw bells and whistles and faults when the failure is NOT in the rack???? Something is missing here, there is NO way the steering system knows a tie rod has been damaged...it's impossible.

AI.. It's the AI... LOL

 

[mpeugeot]

@flip what's the availability of the HOSS 3.0 steering racks right now?

@MUDLVR would probably benefit from one if they are available.

 

[Bmadda]

This is why I want a spare, its the long drawn out shit show to rolling again. I was down for 2-3 weeks, 1 week was just trying to buy a steering rack.

The ordering restriction is off of them now...you can order another one. Might take a bit to get, took me a couple weeks.

 

[flip]

@flip what's the availability of the HOSS 3.0 steering racks right now?

@MUDLVR would probably benefit from one if they are available.

Short rack backorder, the -M long rack might be available for order depending on if they still have it locked down due to the recall but are 150+ inbound to packager so it's looking better. I wonder what is so different about the Raptor rack both physically and software? Take the tie rods out of the equation, has anyone measured the two or done a proper side by side comparison yet?

 

[Bmadda]

Short rack backorder, the -M long rack might be available for order depending on if they still have it locked down due to the recall but are 150+ inbound to packager so it's looking better. I wonder what is so different about the Raptor rack both physically and software? Take the tie rods out of the equation, has anyone measured the two or done a proper side by side comparison yet?

74Weld has. He claims they are physically the same. Raptor tie rods fit the 3.0 rack...that's how you make baha long travel work. Also we have 1 report that raptor rack works on 3.0 programming...so I doubt there is any difference at all (except price?)

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

Yeah, I live in Colorado and basically hit the trails every weekend so I am definitely adding the extra stress of 37s, a bumper, winch, aftermarket tie rods to the equation to what probably made my BL steering rack fail. But Ford should assume that customers are going to upgrade and go bigger, just like Jeep and Toyota does, so they should make stronger parts. I assume though that we are their guinea pigs and that they expect us to break things so that they make stronger parts for the next generation of Bronco's.

Yeah, but the Wrangler and Toyotas are old, the Bronco is only in it’s third year.

Big point you haven’t mentioned is what 37s are you running? They aren’t all the same and are you running C rated or something else. Reason I bring this up is weight, which may be the biggest factor with the failings.

The stock 35s are very light MTs that I’m sure don’t stress the components too much. Like Flip said, why not offer HOSS 3.0 to Badlands? But, they can’t deliver what they do offer for and you can’t order a WT at all this year and likely next.

Sure, they knew you’d mod, but mods should be done properly and it’s not a cheap process as you know. Most mods you see on Wranglers are trash and that crap fails on trail all day long, but no one cares and it’s expected to an extent.

I‘m wheeling my BadSquatch stock, because I knew better and wanted to actually see what Bronco could do before sinking thousands more into upgrades that may or may not have been necessary.

At this point, it’s clear to me the rack in anything other than stock 35s is a no go, so when ready in a few years, that’s my first upgrade, then the cosmetic crap and nice to haves can become priority, but not to start.

In the meantime, I do plan to get another tie rod to keep in my tool bag for the trail repair that may be necessary, but I’d rather throw that rod than my rack.

Hate hearing your rack failed, but just a lift of some kind and 37s which are very heavy, don’t make for a wheeling rig to go out every weekend like you mention. Also, speed is a factor the heavier you go.

Did you also upgrade your brakes? My stock brakes are terrible in my opinion, but with 17s, may not be possible to do much better other than upgraded pads, so I’ll be looking into what Ford Performance has.

 

[87-Z28]

Going from 35” tires to 37” is just 2”. What’s the big deal? Only 6% more.

Mass increases by 35% going from GY 35s (52 lbs) to 70 lbs 37s. Mass inertia (mass times distance squared) goes up another 11% on top of that. Significant numbers.

ford knows this and now it is becoming clear the base rack was not designed for 37s. Many people will put on 37s and stay on the street and likely be fine. Ford also knows that. This was a business decision for 95% of the consumers. Many in this forum represent the other 5%.

 

[Merc4x4]

Yeah, I live in Colorado and basically hit the trails every weekend so I am definitely adding the extra stress of 37s, a bumper, winch, aftermarket tie rods to the equation to what probably made my BL steering rack fail. But Ford should assume that customers are going to upgrade and go bigger, just like Jeep and Toyota does, so they should make stronger parts. I assume though that we are their guinea pigs and that they expect us to break things so that they make stronger parts for the next generation of Bronco's.

They announced*, but never delivered, an upgraded "severe duty" steering rack via Ford Performance. My conspiracy hat says they knew Badlands buyers would mod their trucks and those that did would have to buy the rack through them.
Ford saves money by not over-spec'ing the Badlands trim, and Ford makes money by selling the necessary steering rack for those that want to moderately wheel with 35's or fit 37's.

I just don't think anybody at Ford is that competent. We know the Sasquatch package was originally only intended for the WildTrak, but influencers like Gittin and Healy convinced Ford to offer it on all the trims.

My theory is that the WildTrak was always supposed to have HOSS 3.0 (Fox + HD Steering). Ford called on Bilstein to modify the Badlands shocks to safely fit the 35's (vs 33's) and testing of the standard steering found it to be just enough.
Inversely, Sasquatch package is the maximum tire and lift the rest of the Bronco parts can support. If you want to go bigger than Sasquatch, you'll need to update supporting parts as well.
We still don't know the longevity of the CV's with 37's and lift, so those and perhaps FDU should also be upgraded when exceeding Sasquatch tire and lift specs.
No different from every other mass produced vehicle.

It would have saved us all a lot of time and money if the HD steering rack was an option on the build sheet.


* " Ford Performance is offering a “severe-duty” steering rack and tie rod ends for better steering durability under high loads. "
https://www.autoblog.com/2021/10/22/ford-bronco-performance-parts-sema-builds/

 

[Bmadda]

They announced*, but never delivered, an upgraded "severe duty" steering rack via Ford Performance. My conspiracy hat says they knew Badlands buyers would mod their trucks and those that did would have to buy the rack through them.
Ford saves money by not over-spec'ing the Badlands trim, and Ford makes money by selling the necessary steering rack for those that want to moderately wheel with 35's or fit 37's.

I just don't think anybody at Ford is that competent. We know the Sasquatch package was originally only intended for the WildTrak, but influencers like Gittin and Healy convinced Ford to offer it on all the trims.

My theory is that the WildTrak was always supposed to have HOSS 3.0 (Fox + HD Steering). Ford called on Bilstein to modify the Badlands shocks to safely fit the 35's (vs 33's) and testing of the standard steering found it to be just enough.
Inversely, Sasquatch package is the maximum tire and lift the rest of the Bronco parts can support. If you want to go bigger than Sasquatch, you'll need to update supporting parts as well.
We still don't know the longevity of the CV's with 37's and lift, so those and perhaps FDU should also be upgraded when exceeding Sasquatch tire and lift specs.
No different from every other mass produced vehicle.

It would have saved us all a lot of time and money if the HD steering rack was an option on the build sheet.


* " Ford Performance is offering a “severe-duty” steering rack and tie rod ends for better steering durability under high loads. "
https://www.autoblog.com/2021/10/22/ford-bronco-performance-parts-sema-builds/

I'm not sure where specifically to start disagreeing w/this post...it's alot to unpack, but I will begin here: IF Ford's original conspiracy plan was to sell truckloads of 3.0 racks...then where are they? If they are out there we buy them, and I am positioned now to buy more. Stock squatch and BL are "out of the box" big boy wheeling rigs. Ford offered a factory built version based on what Jeepers and 4x4 enthusiasts have done for years, then when failures started to happen (which is what happens on modded jeeps too), they had an improved version already in the pipeline. Wouldn't suprise me at all if 3.0 rack becomes standard on sasquatch/BL starting in 24MY...but knowing Ford?

 

[Merc4x4]

I'm not sure where specifically to start disagreeing w/this post...it's alot to unpack, but I will begin here: IF Ford's original conspiracy plan was to sell truckloads of 3.0 racks...then where are they? If they are out there we buy them, and I am positioned now to buy more. Stock squatch and BL are "out of the box" big boy wheeling rigs. Ford offered a factory built version based on what Jeepers and 4x4 enthusiasts have done for years, then when failures started to happen (which is what happens on modded jeeps too), they had an improved version already in the pipeline. Wouldn't suprise me at all if 3.0 rack becomes standard on sasquatch/BL starting in 24MY...but knowing Ford?

I discounted the conspiracy angle I thought up by saying I don't think anyone at Ford is competent enough.

The supply of racks are held up by the "new normal" and Ford incompetency. It's been 2 years since Ford announced the Performance part severe duty steering rack. If announcing 2+ years before you can deliver isn't a sign of incompetence, then I don't know what is.

I'm not following the rest of your thoughts here, but I'll take a stab.
I think the standard rack is fine for Sasquatch tires and lift, but at the limit. Not just the limit of the steering rack, but possibly the limit of the CVs and maybe other parts.
Ford gave sold us the "easy" mods most owners of other makes/models do. Pretty much the +1 tire size mod and called it the Sasquatch package. Anything over, and you have to start upgrading supporting parts, just like a Chevy or Toyota.

Bronco Sasquatch cannot handle +1 tire because it already is the +1 tire.

I don't believe the HD rack will be standard on Badlands, as long as Badlands comes standard with 33's. We may see it as an option on Badlands, and option on Sasquatch, or possibly standard on Sasquatch.

 

[mpeugeot]

Well, I don't think there is a Ford conspiracy to sell aftermarket parts, the people at Ford performance might wish there was, but the design team was a bit green and it shows. The design team certainly felt like they delivered great capability (and in fairness they did), but they didn't really know/understand fully the enthusiasts they were courting.

There was a big miss in putting the WildTrak out as the "Top Trim", when clearly the Badlands is and was the top off-road trim... which is now just confused by the schizophrenic split caused by the 2022/2023 HOSS 3.0 availability on the WildTrak but not available for the Badlands.

The bottom line is that Ford doesn't understand the customer (on many levels). Most Broncos will be pavement queens, a far smaller number will off road seriously, and even fewer will be at the extremes.

Taking the above into account, made me want to do upgrades that will bullet proof the vehicle with less ambitious tires... 33's or 34's as opposed to heavy 35's or 37's. I am not knocking those who are running heavier 35's or even 37's, but as others noted... this isn't the capability designed with the factory axles, diffs, suspension, and steering components. Thankfully, the aftermarket will fill in the gaps, but Ford is missing opportunity by not being prepared to meet the enthusiasts where they really are.

I would love to run some meaty 37's, but the leverage on the rest of the suspension and driveline is almost guaranteed to break shit. I will probably stick with the 34's or light 35's to have a vehicle that won't break easily on the trail and be envious of those with deep wallets rocking 37's, 39's, and 40's.

 

[Bmadda]

I discounted the conspiracy angle I thought up by saying I don't think anyone at Ford is competent enough.

The supply of racks are held up by the "new normal" and Ford incompetency. It's been 2 years since Ford announced the Performance part severe duty steering rack. If announcing 2+ years before you can deliver isn't a sign of incompetence, then I don't know what is.

I'm not following the rest of your thoughts here, but I'll take a stab.
I think the standard rack is fine for Sasquatch tires and lift, but at the limit. Not just the limit of the steering rack, but possibly the limit of the CVs and maybe other parts.
Ford gave sold us the "easy" mods most owners of other makes/models do. Pretty much the +1 tire size mod and called it the Sasquatch package. Anything over, and you have to start upgrading supporting parts, just like a Chevy or Toyota.

Bronco Sasquatch cannot handle +1 tire because it already is the +1 tire.

I don't believe the HD rack will be standard on Badlands, as long as Badlands comes standard with 33's. We may see it as an option on Badlands, and option on Sasquatch, or possibly standard on Sasquatch.

I will disagree w/ya there...Sasquatch on 37s is yesterday's news (or a year ago's news). Modding IFS is highly challenging as opposed to our SFA counterparts...but man, are we making progress? After 35s it REALLY becomes a game of inches...I guess what really puzzles me about your post is why is it so important to you that Ford releases the 3.0 rack under the "Ford Performance" brand name? It's an OE part...just order one!

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

They announced*, but never delivered, an upgraded "severe duty" steering rack via Ford Performance. My conspiracy hat says they knew Badlands buyers would mod their trucks and those that did would have to buy the rack through them.
Ford saves money by not over-spec'ing the Badlands trim, and Ford makes money by selling the necessary steering rack for those that want to moderately wheel with 35's or fit 37's.

I just don't think anybody at Ford is that competent. We know the Sasquatch package was originally only intended for the WildTrak, but influencers like Gittin and Healy convinced Ford to offer it on all the trims.

My theory is that the WildTrak was always supposed to have HOSS 3.0 (Fox + HD Steering). Ford called on Bilstein to modify the Badlands shocks to safely fit the 35's (vs 33's) and testing of the standard steering found it to be just enough.
Inversely, Sasquatch package is the maximum tire and lift the rest of the Bronco parts can support. If you want to go bigger than Sasquatch, you'll need to update supporting parts as well.
We still don't know the longevity of the CV's with 37's and lift, so those and perhaps FDU should also be upgraded when exceeding Sasquatch tire and lift specs.
No different from every other mass produced vehicle.

It would have saved us all a lot of time and money if the HD steering rack was an option on the build sheet.


* " Ford Performance is offering a “severe-duty” steering rack and tie rod ends for better steering durability under high loads. "
https://www.autoblog.com/2021/10/22/ford-bronco-performance-parts-sema-builds/

your statements are usually spot on, but this one is off a tad....there's no way ford ever imagined ahead of time that folks would wipe out the parts shelf that holds WT 3.0 racks. They weren't prepared, as usual.

and they DEFINITELY did not expect some folkers to figure out how to program a rack to work on a different bronco, ESPECIALLY when their own programs purposely blocks such a feat.


as far as Ford making money, that part is off too,

Ford would make far more $$$$ if 3.0 performance racks available for installation by the DEALERSHIP. this is still NOT possible. further proof Ford is slow and their Stealerships techs are NOT educated on this kind of modification.

the truth is that ford performance tech head gurus are slower than the non-genius consumer...
foolish mistakes like this could easily be avoided with proper management.

They should have been spending more time and money making HD components available, instead of teach folkers how to drive at the rodeos.

 

[flip]

74Weld has. He claims they are physically the same. Raptor tie rods fit the 3.0 rack...that's how you make baha long travel work. Also we have 1 report that raptor rack works on 3.0 programming...so I doubt there is any difference at all (except price?)

The raptor inner stub that screws in is larger than the WT inners. Somewhere in one of these threads I measured the OAL and they were slightly different. Outers on raptor are straight while the others have the bend for clearance. I assume the raptor knuckle or spring/shock is positioned differently so there isn't an interference issue.

Raptor rack NB3Z-3504-B has a list price of $2,536.67. If the racks are physically the same dimensions, one has to wonder if the motor is any stronger or if the pulleys are different sizes to provide more torque. There's enough of a price difference between HOSS 3.0 and raptor, there almost has to be something different in the guts.

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