The gripe thread.

[Jalisurr]

"autos are faster..."

Who is going to be in their bronco going for the fastest time at the track?

*Raises hand*

...ok, the track in question will be rally-x. But still. And I want a manual regardless because I'm illogical and think with my heart sometimes. I'm sure the 10 speed auto would be strictly better in outright performance, but I'm willing to take the handicap for more fun.

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[Tslater1989]

I love driving manuals, but for daily drivers I prefer the set it and forget it nature of an auto. I've driven a lot of miles in both. Auto is just what I prefer. That said, rowing the gears up to 140 is so visceral and raw, connected to the power... auto's can't give you that same experience. Plus, idk anybody that doesn't love driving an econobox with a stick, may be slower than snot, but it is ridiculous fun.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

I love driving manuals, but for daily drivers I prefer the set it and forget it nature of an auto. I've driven a lot of miles in both. Auto is just what I prefer. That said, rowing the gears up to 140 is so visceral and raw, connected to the power... auto's can't give you that same experience. Plus, idk anybody that deosn't love driving an econobox with a stick, may be slower than snot, but it is ridiculous fun.

I drive an auto daily and only don't play with my Audi as I'm going to sell it, though first giving my Bro in law and my friend a chance to offer half for it before I list it

That said, nothing beats rowing gears and while I say the Bronco would be my weekend toy, we all know the truth

 

[Rollerstud98]

Not really a gripe, more my take on a gripe. Alot are saying it looks like a Flex on a truck chassis, which Im totally ok with! I have my second Flex now, and interior is the most comfortable vehicle Ive ever owned. My hope is its as roomy as Im 6'5 275lbs. Who am I kidding....Im gettin the F ing thing either way.

Somebody posted a jacked up Flex back a bit, I though it looked really good lol. I always liked the Flex.

 

[BAUS67]

Porsche got a lot of backlash when it was rumored they were going to kill off the manual. Now you can get gt3's and 4's with a stick just like the 997's. And that's a company that has the best dual clutch made. People enjoy manuals. It's a really simple argument and I don't understand why it gets so heated. Some people like rowing their own and some don't. Having options for both is in no way a bad thing

that's how I feel about SFA, but it doesn't mean I won.t buy one !!!!

 

[BAUS67]

His favorite car ever is a 69 Mercury Cougar Eliminator. I told him to wait 25 years and he will be able to buy them for a dime a dozen.

I was always partial to the Cougar as well, ………… '67 Cougar convertible for me.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

No, the point of saying 'autos are faster' is because it's true. If you go into the showroom and have the choice between an identical car with an auto and a manual, the car with the auto will be faster. If you then take all the same performance enhancing measures on both, the auto car will still be faster. Just because someone wants to keep their carpets doesn't mean they don't care about having a car with better performance.

For one example, if you wanted to take your stock C7 Corvette to autocross and compete in stock class, you are better off having the automatic transmission than the manual. It's just straight faster.

I'm not dumping on manual transmissions, I prefer them as well. There are lots of reasons to want to have a manual transmission, but with modern cars, outright performance is not one of them.

Not buying it: maybe for PDK/ sequential / dual clutch, but not all automatics. They maybe more fuel efficient because you can program for it, they may tow more, but faster? And regardless, speed off the line is not the point here.

As I said previously - prefer the control I have with a manual and enjoy driving it, not to mention the low crawl gear option / can take bigger tires without regearing . There are drawbacks for that control though:
Stalling out more on obstacles
Maybe less towing capacity
Probably lose a mpg or two
can’t remote start
Pops out of gear sometimes on big bumps off-road
Longer to resell

 

[BAUS67]

For what it's worth if I had a dedicated drag car it would be an auto.

I would still have crashbox. Kickin' and Stickin' is the ONLY way to go when drag racing. It proves you have some skill. Any monkey can put one foot on the brake and one on the gas and go on yellow.

Pro Stock, clutch only used to start/stop not to shift. Shifter only moves forward backward. Reverse is a separate lever (clutch needed). This kind of setup is an absolute BLAST to drive !!!!

It's a lot harder to drive when you have to "feather" the clutch to launch and "fan" the clutch to shift. The faster the car is, the harder this is to do.

It's all about being efficient, and the simpler, more efficient the power is transmitted to the ground the better. You can make 800HP but if your drive train has 50 % loss from the drivetrain, rotating mass, etc. you end up with 250 HP at the wheels. It's not gonna be fast. Might look cool, sound cool, make ALOT of noise, but it's not fast. I remember years ago I read an article about taking a CUP car from the oval to the drag strip, no change. They used a short track car so it had some gear in it but think it only ran in the 11's or 12's. Should make enough power to go 10's. Suspension. tires, etc. juts not efficient in putting the power to the ground in 1320 FT. That said I wouldn't want a drag setup to run 230MPH and then turn LEFT.

 

[BAUS67]

Honest question because I don't know: Does Ford have a manual transmission that can handle the GT500's torque output right now? Because if not, the development dollars for that would be a reason why.

Regardless if I was choosing I'd take the GT350 over the 500. I'll take the lighter car with the flat plane crank.

A PRO STOCK trans would handle it but it a litlle heavy when trying to be a supercar.

 

[BAUS67]

I recall seeing a TOP GEAR episode where Tanner Foust raced "traction control" on Detroit city streets. From what I remember Tanner raced a closed course through the streets with traction control on and then with it off. With it off he went the fastest. It looked like when the car would get "upset" by the bumpy sections of the streets, it would back the power out. Only a few hundredths difference but faster none the less. Maybe on the track where it is smooth could be a different story.

just my 2 cents

edit: have to teach that computer how to have some ???????

I like having the emojies back

 

[Jalisurr]

Not buying it: maybe for PDK/ sequential / dual clutch, but not all automatics. They maybe more fuel efficient because you can program for it, they may tow more, but faster? And regardless, speed off the line is not the point here.

As I said previously - prefer the control I have with a manual and enjoy driving it, not to mention the low crawl gear option / can take bigger tires without regearing . There are drawbacks for that control though:
Stalling out more on obstacles
Maybe less towing capacity
Probably lose a mpg or two
can’t remote start
Pops out of gear sometimes on big bumps off-road
Longer to resell

No, it's true. Only in this last generation of cars over the last 5-10 years basically, but the modern torque converter autos like the ZF 8 speed and the GM/Ford 10 speed are faster than a manual trans, in a straight line OR around a track with corners. They shift really really quick and have more gears so can keep the engine in the power band more. Dual clutch is even better still.

Used to be that the torque converter auto you would give up a couple mpg and a little time 0-60 because you lost some power to the torque converter that you didn't in the manual. Nowadays it's the other way around.

 

[Adk_st]

Modern autos are much faster than manuals. That can't really be debated. Even sportbikes are heading that way

 

[Jalisurr]

I recall seeing a TOP GEAR episode where Tanner Foust raced "traction control" on Detroit city streets. From what I remember Tanner raced a closed course through the streets with traction control on and then with it off. With it off he went the fastest. It looked like when the car would get "upset" by the bumpy sections of the streets, it would back the power out. Only a few hundredths difference but faster none the less. Maybe on the track where it is smooth could be a different story.

just my 2 cents

edit: have to teach that computer how to have some ???????

I like having the emojies back

Yes, your average passenger car or older performance car will be slower with traction/stability control on. Tires generate more grip when they are juust slipping slightly (6 to 10 degrees of slip angle for racing tires, somewhat less for street tires).

However, for modern cars this is also starting to change. High performance cars are starting to come with traction/stability control systems that are clever and will only kick in when the car is already sliding past the point it would give you a performance advantage to keep you in that high performance envelope. New corvettes have a system like this (performance traction management), Ferraris do too (they call it side slip angle control).

Remember, 'traction control' is considered a driver aid that's banned in many racing series because it would make the drivers able to go faster with less effort. It's just that most passenger cars don't come with a system tuned for that.

So basically exactly what you said, just gotta teach the computer to have some ???????

 

[CJay]

So true!
I hope Ford did not Waste Resources on development a manual Bronco.

Funny, I was thinking almost the same thing. I hope Ford doesn't waste resources shipping Broncos to locations like Norway!

 

[CJay]

Teslas are fast and cool, but it still feels like you are driving a refined golf cart. I own a CMAX Energi, and it feels the same way. I would love to have a CMAX manual. But alas, Ford keeps dropping all the cars I like (CMAX, Flex, I loved what Mercury did to the Ford baseline vehicles). I will be supremely disappointed with just an Auto.

I agree that Ford keeps dropping cars I like. My wife loves her C-Max, but in this case, I'm glad they dropped it to make room for the Bronco.
But I have to disagree with you on Lincolns. we really like the new styling and are planning to replace the C-Max with a Corsair hybrid.
I would love to see a Mustang derived Lincoln Mark IX.

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